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Women objectify women too

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Mini Miehm
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Postby Mini Miehm » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:18 am

Terruana wrote:
Mini Miehm wrote:

You assume that all staring is automatically creepy.


It's not really up to the starer to decide whether it's creepy or not. It's up to the person being stared at.



My intent in looking is a valid consideration. If I see a person who is attractive(because I'm actually tiring of limiting this to just women, cute dudes are cute too), and I look at them in an appreciative manner, with no ill intent, then their assuming I'm a creeper for looking at them is just as offensive to me as they have taken my looking to be.
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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:21 am

Zaras wrote:
Sure, ask the guy who doesn't have an experience with being objectified, a ton of white male privilege, trouble making eye contact with people, and an inherent bias/weird hangups about sexuality, because his answer is totally crucial to this.

I'm terrible at keeping track of time, too. Staring more than half a minute would probably be a better timeframe.


There you go again with that privilege shit, if you don't have anything to contribute then don't answer.

In relevant news,
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 150215.htm
This article is linked to in the source article and describes their methodology. The parameters make me feel as though this response is natural, not conditioned.
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Terruana
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Postby Terruana » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:21 am

Mini Miehm wrote:
Terruana wrote:
It's not really up to the starer to decide whether it's creepy or not. It's up to the person being stared at.



My intent in looking is a valid consideration. If I see a person who is attractive(because I'm actually tiring of limiting this to just women, cute dudes are cute too), and I look at them in an appreciative manner, with no ill intent, then their assuming I'm a creeper for looking at them is just as offensive to me as they have taken my looking to be.


Not really. The person you're staring at has no idea what your intent is. The simple solution is, if you can't deal with the fact that people are all different and there is no standard for what counts as staring and what counts as a simple appreciative glance, then you shouldn't stare at all.
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Mini Miehm
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Postby Mini Miehm » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:24 am

Zaras wrote:
Mini Miehm wrote:
I want to hear YOUR idea of a timeframe. Is it the minute that you mentioned? A minute seems like a long time to look at even the hottest woman(or man, but again, tangent).


Sure, ask the guy who doesn't have an experience with being objectified, a ton of white male privilege, trouble making eye contact with people, and an inherent bias/weird hangups about sexuality, because his answer is totally crucial to this.

I'm terrible at keeping track of time, too. Staring more than half a minute would probably be a better timeframe.



Miehm is white male, and doesn't believe in white male privilege. I am sorry about your social awkwardness, and can sympathize to a point. You were the one making the objection, and so it seemed reasonable to ask you. How long would I have to look at you to make you uncomfortable? I look at attractive men too after all. Of course, if you're straight, I guess the answer would be "at all", but still, you see my point.
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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:24 am

Terruana wrote:Not really. The person you're staring at has no idea what your intent is. The simple solution is, if you can't deal with the fact that people are all different and there is no standard for what counts as staring and what counts as a simple appreciative glance, then you shouldn't stare at all.


By that logic we should never have any interactions at all since the other person can't know what your intent is.
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Terruana
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Postby Terruana » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:25 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Terruana wrote:Not really. The person you're staring at has no idea what your intent is. The simple solution is, if you can't deal with the fact that people are all different and there is no standard for what counts as staring and what counts as a simple appreciative glance, then you shouldn't stare at all.


By that logic we should never have any interactions at all since the other person can't know what your intent is.


Only if you can't handle them responding in a way you weren't expecting.
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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:26 am

Terruana wrote:Only if you can't handle them responding in a way you weren't expecting.


So if you don't really care about getting bitched out you can go ahead and stare?
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Terruana
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Postby Terruana » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:28 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Terruana wrote:Only if you can't handle them responding in a way you weren't expecting.


So if you don't really care about getting bitched out you can go ahead and stare?


Sure. You'll still be an asshat, but it's not illegal to stare at someone.
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Mini Miehm
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Postby Mini Miehm » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:28 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Terruana wrote:Only if you can't handle them responding in a way you weren't expecting.


So if you don't really care about getting bitched out you can go ahead and stare?



That's what I heard. Be creepy as long as peoples opinion doesn't matter to you.
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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:30 am

Mini Miehm wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:
So if you don't really care about getting bitched out you can go ahead and stare?



That's what I heard. Be creepy as long as peoples opinion doesn't matter to you.


It's worked for me for 44 years now. ;)

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Zaras
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Postby Zaras » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:31 am

Mini Miehm wrote:
Zaras wrote:
Sure, ask the guy who doesn't have an experience with being objectified, a ton of white male privilege, trouble making eye contact with people, and an inherent bias/weird hangups about sexuality, because his answer is totally crucial to this.

I'm terrible at keeping track of time, too. Staring more than half a minute would probably be a better timeframe.


Miehm is white male, and doesn't believe in white male privilege. I am sorry about your social awkwardness, and can sympathize to a point. You were the one making the objection, and so it seemed reasonable to ask you. How long would I have to look at you to make you uncomfortable? I look at attractive men too after all. Of course, if you're straight, I guess the answer would be "at all", but still, you see my point.


Probably less likely to sympathise considering it's self-inflicted by the fact that I cared more about being alone than learning how to make friends growing up. I'm not homophobic enough to be made uncomfortable by staring, but my answer is worthless since I'm pretty much constantly uncomfortable in public as is, therefore I'm the wrong person to ask about staring because my biases are too strong to give a valid answer.
Last edited by Zaras on Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bythyrona wrote:
Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.

Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
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Mini Miehm
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Postby Mini Miehm » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:32 am

Zaras wrote:
Mini Miehm wrote:
Miehm is white male, and doesn't believe in white male privilege. I am sorry about your social awkwardness, and can sympathize to a point. You were the one making the objection, and so it seemed reasonable to ask you. How long would I have to look at you to make you uncomfortable? I look at attractive men too after all. Of course, if you're straight, I guess the answer would be "at all", but still, you see my point.


Probably less likely to sympathise considering it's self-inflicted by the fact that I cared more about being alone than learning how to make friends growing up. I'm not homophobic enough to be made uncomfortable by staring, but my answer is worthless since I'm pretty much constantly uncomfortable in public as is, therefore I'm the wrong person to ask about staring because my biases are too strong to give a valid answer.



Well at least you know your limitations. That's more than some people can say.
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Zaras
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Postby Zaras » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:32 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Zaras wrote:
Sure, ask the guy who doesn't have an experience with being objectified, a ton of white male privilege, trouble making eye contact with people, and an inherent bias/weird hangups about sexuality, because his answer is totally crucial to this.

I'm terrible at keeping track of time, too. Staring more than half a minute would probably be a better timeframe.


There you go again with that privilege shit, if you don't have anything to contribute then don't answer.


The fact that you try to deny that privilege is a valid contribution is your problem, not mine.
Bythyrona wrote:
Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.

Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
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Zaras
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Postby Zaras » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:33 am

Mini Miehm wrote:
Zaras wrote:
Probably less likely to sympathise considering it's self-inflicted by the fact that I cared more about being alone than learning how to make friends growing up. I'm not homophobic enough to be made uncomfortable by staring, but my answer is worthless since I'm pretty much constantly uncomfortable in public as is, therefore I'm the wrong person to ask about staring because my biases are too strong to give a valid answer.



Well at least you know your limitations. That's more than some people can say.


I should probably make it more obvious that when I bring up privilege and stuff, I tend to use it against myself more than other people. But that would mean I actually knew how to write an argument.
Bythyrona wrote:
Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.

Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
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Varijnland
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Postby Varijnland » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:37 am

Boobs

Retiring from NS, I wish you all the best in your future endevours :)

- Rasmus


P.S stay off drugs

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Zaras
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Postby Zaras » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:39 am

Varijnland wrote:Boobs


Congratulations on not contributing anything worthwhile to the thread! Here's a cookie. :clap:
Bythyrona wrote:
Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.

Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
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Varijnland
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Postby Varijnland » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:42 am

Zaras wrote:
Varijnland wrote:Boobs


Congratulations on not contributing anything worthwhile to the thread! Here's a cookie. :clap:

Yay! Thanks

*nom nom nom*
:shock:

Poison! I knew it

Retiring from NS, I wish you all the best in your future endevours :)

- Rasmus


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Terruana
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Postby Terruana » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:43 am

Varijnland wrote:Boobs


I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:44 am

Terruana wrote:
Varijnland wrote:Boobs


I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.


"Tits" is a better read, but "Big 'Uns" is the best.
Last edited by Big Jim P on Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Zaras
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Postby Zaras » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:45 am

Big Jim P wrote:
Terruana wrote:
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.


"Tits" is a better read, but "Big 'Uns" is the best.


And "The Sun" is the most popular.
Bythyrona wrote:
Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.

Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
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Bottle, telling it like it is.
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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:46 am

Zaras wrote:
I should probably make it more obvious that when I bring up privilege and stuff, I tend to use it against myself more than other people. But that would mean I actually knew how to write an argument.


Yeah you really should, because accusing someone of being privileged discounts everything they've ever worked for and every hardship they've ever faced.
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Mini Miehm
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Postby Mini Miehm » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:47 am

Zaras wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
"Tits" is a better read, but "Big 'Uns" is the best.


And "The Sun" is the most popular.



Kielbasa Quarterly is a good read.
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Zaras
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Postby Zaras » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:48 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Zaras wrote:
I should probably make it more obvious that when I bring up privilege and stuff, I tend to use it against myself more than other people. But that would mean I actually knew how to write an argument.


Yeah you really should, because accusing someone of being privileged discounts everything they've ever worked for and every hardship they've ever faced.


I haven't used that argument to dismiss people's experiences, I've mostly stuck to using it to criticise when it sounds like their arguments are too biased and too easily dismissive of other people's experiences. But then again, I am gigantically clueless and can't even read what I actually write.

Still though, I don't feel that working to achieve things should not take into account that some people might've benefitted from better opportunities than others, for various reasons.
Last edited by Zaras on Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bythyrona wrote:
Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.

Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
Factbook
RP 1, RP 2, RP 3, RP 4, RP 5
ADS, UDL, GFN member
Political compass (old), Political compass (new)
Bottle, telling it like it is.
Risottia, on lolbertarianism.

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Nadkor
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Postby Nadkor » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:49 am

Northern Dominus wrote:[Two things I think you probably should answer before continuing.
1. What exactly constitutes "stare-worthy" feminine attire in your perception? What possible outfits or trends could be construed as worthy of creepy stars.


Considering it's possible to get leered at (and thus made to feel uncomfortable and intimidated) when wearing virtually anything, regardless of how revealing it is, this is an interesting question.

You can go out wearing a pair of jeans and a hoody and get the same looks from some people, and be made to feel the same way, as if you were wearing a short skirt.

What I would really like to know from Des-Bal now is whether the looks are as justified when you're wearing jeans and a hoody as they are when you're wearing a short skirt?

Is a woman more justified in complaining when she gets leered at when wearing a pair of jeans in the same way as if she's wearing a short skirt?

Because they're the same looks, and make you feel the same way.

At what point, precisely, on the thigh does a skirt have to be at to render stares justified and complaints not?
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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:52 am

Nadkor wrote:
Northern Dominus wrote:[Two things I think you probably should answer before continuing.
1. What exactly constitutes "stare-worthy" feminine attire in your perception? What possible outfits or trends could be construed as worthy of creepy stars.


Considering it's possible to get leered at (and thus made to feel uncomfortable and intimidated) when wearing virtually anything, regardless of how revealing it is, this is an interesting question.

You can go out wearing a pair of jeans and a hoody and get the same looks from some people, and be made to feel the same way, as if you were wearing a short skirt.

What I would really like to know from Des-Bal now is whether the looks are as justified when you're wearing jeans and a hoody as they are when you're wearing a short skirt?

Is a woman more justified in complaining when she gets leered at when wearing a pair of jeans in the same way as if she's wearing a short skirt?

Because they're the same looks, and make you feel the same way.

At what point, precisely, on the thigh does a skirt have to be at to render stares justified and complaints not?


As an aside, there is a big difference between looking appreciatively at an attractive person, and leering. Too bad that a lot of people (on both sides of the equation) don't know this.

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