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Women objectify women too

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Mini Miehm
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Postby Mini Miehm » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:56 am

Terruana wrote:There's a difference between looking at someone and thinking "They look really good", then going on with your day, and staring at someone to the point of making them uncomfortable. Apparently some people in this thread don't seem to appreciate the distinction. Clothes designed to look nice are not invitations to stare and drool, they're just there to make the person wearing them look and feel good.



Yes they are. Stare at me and drool damn you!
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Zaras
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Postby Zaras » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:56 am

Mini Miehm wrote:No. And what's more, hell no. If I'm staring at a woman(or a man for that matter) its because I think they're attractive. It is me paying you a silent compliment, because I feel that your appearance is worth prolonged appraisal. If you Kirk out on me for paying you that compliment, the only person being impolite in that situation is you. I'm a fairly average guy, and I enjoy dressing in a way that draws peoples attention, because I like it when people look at me. If I got mad when people looked at me appreciatively, that would be rank hypocrisy.


Hey, stop right fucking there. Being leered at is NEVER a compliment, and the fact that you can consider it one just shows how blinded you are by your privilege.
Bythyrona wrote:
Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.

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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:58 am

Zaras wrote:Hey, stop right fucking there. Being leered at is NEVER a compliment, and the fact that you can consider it one just shows how blinded you are by your privilege.


Punctuating your sentence with "privileged" makes you sound less disenfranchised and more like a crybaby.
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Mini Miehm
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Postby Mini Miehm » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:59 am

Zaras wrote:
Mini Miehm wrote:No. And what's more, hell no. If I'm staring at a woman(or a man for that matter) its because I think they're attractive. It is me paying you a silent compliment, because I feel that your appearance is worth prolonged appraisal. If you Kirk out on me for paying you that compliment, the only person being impolite in that situation is you. I'm a fairly average guy, and I enjoy dressing in a way that draws peoples attention, because I like it when people look at me. If I got mad when people looked at me appreciatively, that would be rank hypocrisy.


Hey, stop right fucking there. Being leered at is NEVER a compliment, and the fact that you can consider it one just shows how blinded you are by your privilege.



My privilege of...what precisely? If you're implying that not being a woman is a privilege, then I take exception. Unless someone is actively being harassing, either through actions(looking isn't sufficient for harassment) or words, then they are appreciating your appearance.
Last edited by Mini Miehm on Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mini Miehm
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Postby Mini Miehm » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:00 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Zaras wrote:Hey, stop right fucking there. Being leered at is NEVER a compliment, and the fact that you can consider it one just shows how blinded you are by your privilege.


Punctuating your sentence with "privileged" makes you sound less disenfranchised and more like a crybaby.



Holy shit I agree with Des-Bal. I don't think this happens very often.
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Terruana
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Postby Terruana » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:00 am

Mini Miehm wrote:
Terruana wrote:There's a difference between looking at someone and thinking "They look really good", then going on with your day, and staring at someone to the point of making them uncomfortable. Apparently some people in this thread don't seem to appreciate the distinction. Clothes designed to look nice are not invitations to stare and drool, they're just there to make the person wearing them look and feel good.



Yes they are. Stare at me and drool damn you!


This is exactly how Snow White went down :/
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Zaras
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Postby Zaras » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:01 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Zaras wrote:Hey, stop right fucking there. Being leered at is NEVER a compliment, and the fact that you can consider it one just shows how blinded you are by your privilege.


Punctuating your sentence with "privileged" makes you sound less disenfranchised and more like a crybaby.


I'm not pretending I'm disenfranchised, unlike people who blame women when they can't control their libidos.

Mini Miehm wrote:My privilege of...what precisely? If you're applying that not being a woman is a privilege, then I take exception. Unless someone is actively being harassing, either through actions(looking isn't sufficient for harassment) or words, then they are appreciating your appearance.


Assuming that leering and objectifying is automatically a compliment and that those women who call you out on it are just so silly and easily offended? It's like playing "male privilege bingo".

Like Terruana said, you can't seem to tell the difference between casually noticing someone's appearance and being creepy, judging by that post.
Last edited by Zaras on Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bythyrona wrote:
Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.

Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
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Mini Miehm
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Postby Mini Miehm » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:02 am

Terruana wrote:
Mini Miehm wrote:

Yes they are. Stare at me and drool damn you!


This is exactly how Snow White went down :/


I'm cool with that. I try to not to accept food from strange people.
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Mini Miehm
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Postby Mini Miehm » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:04 am

Zaras wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:
Punctuating your sentence with "privileged" makes you sound less disenfranchised and more like a crybaby.


I'm not pretending I'm disenfranchised, unlike people who blame women when they can't control their libidos.

Mini Miehm wrote:My privilege of...what precisely? If you're applying that not being a woman is a privilege, then I take exception. Unless someone is actively being harassing, either through actions(looking isn't sufficient for harassment) or words, then they are appreciating your appearance.


Assuming that leering and objectifying is automatically a compliment and that those women who call you out on it are just so silly and easily offended? It's like playing "male privilege bingo".

Like Terruana said, you can't seem to tell the difference between casually noticing someone's appearance and being creepy, judging by that post.



How long exactly does it take for a glance to go from appreciative to creepy? Give me a time frame. Because I've been snapped at for a glance and a smile, and I've been given phone numbers for lingering looks. If there's no standard, then people who get offended by a look ARE just easily offended.
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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:05 am

Zaras wrote:I'm not pretending I'm disenfranchised, unlike people who blame women when they can't control their libidos.


Every time I see you you're talking about how privileged everyone else is which is pretty arrogant and not very helpful.

Regardless do you think this phenomena is social or biological, would it be different in a different society?
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Zaras
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Postby Zaras » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:07 am

Mini Miehm wrote:How long exactly does it take for a glance to go from appreciative to creepy? Give me a time frame. Because I've been snapped at for a glance and a smile, and I've been given phone numbers for lingering looks. If there's no standard, then people who get offended by a look ARE just easily offended.


Try asking people who've actually been subjected to that for the time frame. I'd say constantly staring for at least a minute is already suspect.
Bythyrona wrote:
Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.

Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:07 am

Terruana wrote:This is exactly how Snow White went down :/


Snow White ate unsolicited food given to her by a stranger and woke up with a strange man sticking his tongue in her mouth.
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Mini Miehm
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Postby Mini Miehm » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:08 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Terruana wrote:This is exactly how Snow White went down :/


Snow White ate unsolicited food given to her by a stranger and woke up with a strange man sticking his tongue in her mouth.




I think in the original she got raped actually.... Just sayin, thats kinda bad.
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Terruana
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Postby Terruana » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:08 am

Mini Miehm wrote:
Zaras wrote:
I'm not pretending I'm disenfranchised, unlike people who blame women when they can't control their libidos.



Assuming that leering and objectifying is automatically a compliment and that those women who call you out on it are just so silly and easily offended? It's like playing "male privilege bingo".

Like Terruana said, you can't seem to tell the difference between casually noticing someone's appearance and being creepy, judging by that post.



How long exactly does it take for a glance to go from appreciative to creepy? Give me a time frame. Because I've been snapped at for a glance and a smile, and I've been given phone numbers for lingering looks. If there's no standard, then people who get offended by a look ARE just easily offended.


I imagine it also depends how you're looking at them, and the situation around you. A lingering gaze in a club, for example, is probably more acceptable than in an alleyway. Similarly, staring right at someone with your tongue hanging out is probably less acceptable than casually glancing over while in mid-conversation with a friend.
In other words, there is no standard because there are more variables involved than just how long you were staring for.
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Terruana
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Postby Terruana » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:10 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Terruana wrote:This is exactly how Snow White went down :/


Snow White ate unsolicited food given to her by a stranger and woke up with a strange man sticking his tongue in her mouth.


I was actually talking about the evil queen, not Snow White herself. Y'know, mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all?
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Mini Miehm
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Postby Mini Miehm » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:10 am

Zaras wrote:
Mini Miehm wrote:How long exactly does it take for a glance to go from appreciative to creepy? Give me a time frame. Because I've been snapped at for a glance and a smile, and I've been given phone numbers for lingering looks. If there's no standard, then people who get offended by a look ARE just easily offended.


Try asking people who've actually been subjected to that for the time frame. I'd say constantly staring for at least a minute is already suspect.



That fails to define a time frame in the manner I was desiring. Its not practical to go up to every woman you see and ask her how long its ok for you to look at her. THAT'S creepy as shit.
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Zaras
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Postby Zaras » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:10 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Zaras wrote:I'm not pretending I'm disenfranchised, unlike people who blame women when they can't control their libidos.


Every time I see you you're talking about how privileged everyone else is which is pretty arrogant and not very helpful.


Brilliant argument. When somebody brings up sociological aspects of privilege and existing power structures, resort to the tone argument to dismiss the idea that privilege exists. Sure, that's a winning strategy.

How exactly is bringing up privilege not helpful, especially since I'm not the only one who's done it so far in the thread? Others have already advanced the point that some people debating here seemingly assume creepy staring also falls under "appreciative compliments".
Bythyrona wrote:
Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.

Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:10 am

Mini Miehm wrote:


I think in the original she got raped actually.... Just sayin, thats kinda bad.


Well yeah she got raped but it was still the stranger tongue that woke her up. I move this conversation be terminated before it becomes absolutely awful.
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Mini Miehm
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Postby Mini Miehm » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:11 am

Zaras wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:
Every time I see you you're talking about how privileged everyone else is which is pretty arrogant and not very helpful.


Brilliant argument. When somebody brings up sociological aspects of privilege and existing power structures, resort to the tone argument to dismiss the idea that privilege exists. Sure, that's a winning strategy.

How exactly is bringing up privilege not helpful, especially since I'm not the only one who's done it so far in the thread? Others have already advanced the point that some people debating here seemingly assume creepy staring also falls under "appreciative compliments".



You assume that all staring is automatically creepy.
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Zaras
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Postby Zaras » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:11 am

Mini Miehm wrote:
Zaras wrote:
Try asking people who've actually been subjected to that for the time frame. I'd say constantly staring for at least a minute is already suspect.



That fails to define a time frame in the manner I was desiring. Its not practical to go up to every woman you see and ask her how long its ok for you to look at her. THAT'S creepy as shit.


I meant ask people who've been subjected to creepy staring, what they think the time frame is. Not that you should ask them how long you can stare at them, for fuck's sake. :palm:
Bythyrona wrote:
Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.

Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
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Mini Miehm
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Postby Mini Miehm » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:14 am

Zaras wrote:
Mini Miehm wrote:

That fails to define a time frame in the manner I was desiring. Its not practical to go up to every woman you see and ask her how long its ok for you to look at her. THAT'S creepy as shit.


I meant ask people who've been subjected to creepy staring, what they think the time frame is. Not that you should ask them how long you can stare at them, for fuck's sake. :palm:



I want to hear YOUR idea of a timeframe. Is it the minute that you mentioned? A minute seems like a long time to look at even the hottest woman(or man, but again, tangent).
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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:14 am

Zaras wrote:
I meant ask people who've been subjected to creepy staring, what they think the time frame is. Not that you should ask them how long you can stare at them, for fuck's sake. :palm:


He did that, there are women here complaining about being stared at and he's thrown the question out there.
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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:15 am

Mini Miehm wrote:

I want to hear YOUR idea of a timeframe. Is it the minute that you mentioned? A minute seems like a long time to look at even the hottest woman(or man, but again, tangent).


If you looked at a dog for a whole minute it would get uncomfortable and leave the room.
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Terruana
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Postby Terruana » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:15 am

Mini Miehm wrote:
Zaras wrote:
Brilliant argument. When somebody brings up sociological aspects of privilege and existing power structures, resort to the tone argument to dismiss the idea that privilege exists. Sure, that's a winning strategy.

How exactly is bringing up privilege not helpful, especially since I'm not the only one who's done it so far in the thread? Others have already advanced the point that some people debating here seemingly assume creepy staring also falls under "appreciative compliments".



You assume that all staring is automatically creepy.


It's not really up to the starer to decide whether it's creepy or not. It's up to the person being stared at.
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Zaras
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Postby Zaras » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:16 am

Mini Miehm wrote:
Zaras wrote:
I meant ask people who've been subjected to creepy staring, what they think the time frame is. Not that you should ask them how long you can stare at them, for fuck's sake. :palm:


I want to hear YOUR idea of a timeframe. Is it the minute that you mentioned? A minute seems like a long time to look at even the hottest woman(or man, but again, tangent).


Sure, ask the guy who doesn't have an experience with being objectified, a ton of white male privilege, trouble making eye contact with people, and an inherent bias/weird hangups about sexuality, because his answer is totally crucial to this.

I'm terrible at keeping track of time, too. Staring more than half a minute would probably be a better timeframe.
Last edited by Zaras on Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bythyrona wrote:
Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.

Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
Factbook
RP 1, RP 2, RP 3, RP 4, RP 5
ADS, UDL, GFN member
Political compass (old), Political compass (new)
Bottle, telling it like it is.
Risottia, on lolbertarianism.

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