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Question for Paulinists

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Franklin Delano Bluth
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Question for Paulinists

Postby Franklin Delano Bluth » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:08 pm

A couple of points rather fundamental to Paulinism have long bothered me, and I'd like to get some input on how Paulinists understand them.

First, how do you know that Paul wasn't lying or deluded about the circumstances and events of his claimed conversion? Second, how do you reconcile your claim that Jesus was the Christ with Jesus's clear belief in a god and (for those who hold to these interpretations--I realize that they're not universal, and if you don't agree with this interpretation you're not who this part is directed towards, so please just ignore it) claims of divinity?
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:38 pm

Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:A couple of points rather fundamental to Paulinism have long bothered me, and I'd like to get some input on how Paulinists understand them.

First, how do you know that Paul wasn't lying or deluded about the circumstances and events of his claimed conversion? Second, how do you reconcile your claim that Jesus was the Christ with Jesus's clear belief in a god and (for those who hold to these interpretations--I realize that they're not universal, and if you don't agree with this interpretation you're not who this part is directed towards, so please just ignore it) claims of divinity?


1. I don't. Then again, I base my beliefs more on the gospels than the epistles.

2. It seems that you're failing to understand that Jesus being the Messiah automatically means He can't be God.

Also, we're Christians, not Paulinists.

If you want to separate yourself from Christians, why not call yourself a Christist, or something?
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Postby Silent Majority » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:38 pm

I'm so confused.
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:42 pm

Katganistan wrote:Oh, I wouldn't vote for Ron OR Rand if you paid me.


:rofl:

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Raeyh
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Postby Raeyh » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:43 pm

By Paulinist, you mean Roman Catholics, right?

If you want to know, I was born with Italian heritage, so naturally I would be Catholic and that's what they taught us.

Right now I'm a heretic and an apostate, so it doesn't really matter what the Church teaches or what any given faithful says, you included. From my perspective, I'm already hellbound.

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Postby Veblenia » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:45 pm

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Franklin Delano Bluth
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Postby Franklin Delano Bluth » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:03 pm

Raeyh wrote:By Paulinist, you mean Roman Catholics, right?


Well, yes, Roman Catholics number among the Paulinists as well.
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Franklin Delano Bluth
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Postby Franklin Delano Bluth » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:06 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:A couple of points rather fundamental to Paulinism have long bothered me, and I'd like to get some input on how Paulinists understand them.

First, how do you know that Paul wasn't lying or deluded about the circumstances and events of his claimed conversion? Second, how do you reconcile your claim that Jesus was the Christ with Jesus's clear belief in a god and (for those who hold to these interpretations--I realize that they're not universal, and if you don't agree with this interpretation you're not who this part is directed towards, so please just ignore it) claims of divinity?


2. It seems that you're failing to understand that Jesus being the Messiah automatically means He can't be God.

It seems that you're failing to properly read what I wrote.

If you want to separate yourself from Christians

Why would I want to separate myself from what I am? I'm just trying to distinguish between Christians and non-Christians, such as Paulinists.
The American Legion is a neo-fascist terrorist organization, bent on implementing Paulinist Sharia, and with a history of pogroms against organized labor and peace activists and of lynching those who dare resist or defend themselves against its aggression.

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Tmutarakhan
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Postby Tmutarakhan » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:28 pm

Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:It seems that you're failing to properly read what I wrote.

The problem is with your refusal to use language that conveys meaning.
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Postby Druidville » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:31 pm

Katganistan wrote:Oh, I wouldn't vote for Ron OR Rand if you paid me.


Rand seems more Libertarian than Ron, who dual-classes in Psycho/Whacky.

As for the religion OP.... not even going to start on it.
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Miss Defied
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Postby Miss Defied » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:36 pm

Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:
Raeyh wrote:By Paulinist, you mean Roman Catholics, right?


Well, yes, Roman Catholics number among the Paulinists as well.

Why do you consider RCs Paulinists? I always thought of Paulinists as various christians who were like, "Paul said this" and "Paul said that" and didn't have much to say about what Jesus said or did. From my RC upbringing, I'd have to say that they put a lot of stock in the gospels. Opposed to some Protestants who focus more on the epistles.
Also is there really a concrete definition of a Paulinist?
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:16 pm

Raeyh wrote:By Paulinist, you mean Roman Catholics, right?


Knowing Bluth, he means anyone who follows Paul's writings, which includes Catholics, but also Orthodoxes and Protestants. I'd say, almost everyone calling himself a Christian.

Btw, about Bluth's question, a non-Christian answer: one could reconcile Jesus' belief in the God of Abraham (he was an observant Jew after all) and his divinity by considering that every human descends from God (as per Genesis) and, through his god-given conscience/soul, has some "divine" qualities.

Then again, I'm neither a Christian nor a Paulinist, so I could be making some gross theological mistakes here.
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Christmahanikwanzikah
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Postby Christmahanikwanzikah » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:46 pm

Risottia wrote:
Raeyh wrote:By Paulinist, you mean Roman Catholics, right?


Knowing Bluth, he means anyone who follows Paul's writings, which includes Catholics, but also Orthodoxes and Protestants. I'd say, almost everyone calling himself a Christian.

Btw, about Bluth's question, a non-Christian answer: one could reconcile Jesus' belief in the God of Abraham (he was an observant Jew after all) and his divinity by considering that every human descends from God (as per Genesis) and, through his god-given conscience/soul, has some "divine" qualities.

Then again, I'm neither a Christian nor a Paulinist, so I could be making some gross theological mistakes here.


Of course, there are other books in the NT written by not-Paul that convey the same attitude and gospel as Paul did, but I'm sure that this good little Blutheran will tell me that, say, James was written after Paul wrote Galatians or that James' writings were somehow influenced by Paul's as he lay in jail, but whatever.

Of course, as for the second question, Jesus was God in human flesh ("Immanuel," or "God is with us", as told in Isaiah). So he was both God and man.

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Coccygia
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Postby Coccygia » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:31 pm

Paul basically cooked up what we now know as Xtianity on his own out of whole cloth* and passed it off as the teachings of Jesus, whom he never met (unless you buy his conversion story, and don't think it was a hallucination anyway).


*Mixed metaphor?
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Postby Northwest Slobovia » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:42 pm

Risottia wrote:
Raeyh wrote:By Paulinist, you mean Roman Catholics, right?


Knowing Bluth, he means anyone who follows Paul's writings, which includes Catholics, but also Orthodoxes and Protestants. I'd say, almost everyone calling himself a Christian.

I've wondered about that "almost". Are there any surviving Christian churches that don't consider Paul an authority? Were there ever?
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Postby Condunum » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:59 pm

Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
2. It seems that you're failing to understand that Jesus being the Messiah automatically means He can't be God.

It seems that you're failing to properly read what I wrote.

If you want to separate yourself from Christians

Why would I want to separate myself from what I am? I'm just trying to distinguish between Christians and non-Christians, such as Paulinists.

The common term for the people you are referring to is Christian. Every fucking thread you make about them, in any way, devolves into an argument about whether or not they are Christians. Why can't you just accept that you do not own the term Christian any more than the Church owns the term "Marriage," move the fuck on, and drop this Paulinist garbage?



As for the OP, how can you determine if any book of the bible is not lying or written under delusion?

Christ is a translation of the Hebrew term מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), the Messiah. I'd say it's impossible for him to be God, but hey, people can believe what every they want, for what every weird reason they want.

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Postby AiliailiA » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:17 pm

Who is Pauline?
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Condunum
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Postby Condunum » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:48 pm

Ailiailia wrote:Who is Pauline?

Any branch of Christianity that associates it's beliefs with Paul's doctrines.
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:56 pm

Risottia wrote:
Raeyh wrote:By Paulinist, you mean Roman Catholics, right?


Knowing Bluth, he means anyone who follows Paul's writings, which includes Catholics, but also Orthodoxes and Protestants. I'd say, almost everyone calling himself a Christian.

Btw, about Bluth's question, a non-Christian answer: one could reconcile Jesus' belief in the God of Abraham (he was an observant Jew after all) and his divinity by considering that every human descends from God (as per Genesis) and, through his god-given conscience/soul, has some "divine" qualities.

Then again, I'm neither a Christian nor a Paulinist, so I could be making some gross theological mistakes here.


I fail to see how belief in a God automatically excludes said believer from being divine, which is what Bluth seems to be asking.

Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
2. It seems that you're failing to understand that Jesus being the Messiah automatically means He can't be God.

1. It seems that you're failing to properly read what I wrote.

If you want to separate yourself from Christians

2. Why would I want to separate myself from what I am? I'm just trying to distinguish between Christians and non-Christians, such as Paulinists.


1. Ok then. Tell me what you wrote, and how I misread it.

2. You don't own the term Christian.
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I'm a pansexual Androgyne. Also a Christian.
Please use they/them/their when referencing me, as I do NOT appreciate the other pronouns.
Textbook definition of irony
Quotes of awesomeness

"Don't take life so serious. It isn't permanent."-Dyakovo


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