Mars Rover Landing Stream

[Garboshia]

actually I'm starting to see his/her argument. It isn't about paying taxes it's how they're being spent and if the private sector can take care of space exploration why spend tax payer money on space exploration? I'm actually starting to agree with Yandere about the issue and he/she makes a good point on the investment of cellphones in the 80s turning a near useless piece of technology into the most common form of communication.

Tell us again how landing a rover on Mars generates profits for a corporation?

I'm just saying that I agree with some of Yandere's opinions. I'm not against the rovers but privitising space may not spell doom for human progress in space. Like I said (or what I borrowed from Yandere) it looked like no one would want to invest in the cell phone in the 80s, it was big, cumborsome and not really useful, then thirty years later we now have smartphones thanks to people investing in the cell phone in the 80s.

[NMaa949]

A corporation that runs space exploration would be tough to manage (albeit, it's pretty stupid), but I don't see how that's fascist? I'm afraid I do not understand your logic.

No, I said corporations heading it would be fascist, as in, private interests. Just like it's fascist if corporations head the government.

[Typhlochactas]

Because corporations heading space exploration is fascist.

Okay - so private interests should be able to invest in space exploration. Fantastic.

A corporation that runs space exploration would be tough to manage (albeit, it's pretty stupid), but I don't see how that's fascist? I'm afraid I do not understand your logic.

I never understood the fascist part either.

[NMaa949]

If corporations head the government - that's fascist. If they head the military - that's fascist. If they head space exploration - that's fascist. Do you see a pattern here, or do we need to change our strategy young padawan?

[Garboshia]

If corporations head the government - that's fascist. If they head the military - that's fascist. If they head space exploration - that's fascist. Do you see a pattern here, or do we need to change our strategy young padawan?

Okay, I'm not saying hand everything to corporations but if they want to spend their money on space related endeavors, let them.

[NMaa949]

Okay, I'm not saying hand everything to corporations but if they want to spend their money on space related endeavors, let them.

I wasn't opposed to that, I was opposed to not having any government space agency, or letting private interests be the one's mostly doing it. If private interests are more interested in space and funding it more, government should increase funding accordingly. Or be hanged! DEATH! DEATH! PAIN! DOOM!

[Garboshia]

Okay, I'm not saying hand everything to corporations but if they want to spend their money on space related endeavors, let them.

I wasn't opposed to that, I was opposed to not having any government space agency, or letting private be the one's mostly doing it.

Oh, well.... We just spent a few minutes of our lives debating over something we sort of agreed with.... My bad.

[AiliailiA]

I've only read the first two pages, but I'm seeing a lot of posters who seem to think this is the first landing on Mars, or the first rover on Mars.

True enough that Mars landings have an eerily bad record for successful deployment, but this isn't the first to succeed. That would be Viking 1 in 1975.

First "landing" was a Soviet rover mission Mars 2, which crashed in November 1971. Mars 3 in the same year did land but died seconds later. Those were the first attempted rovers (though they were designed to walk no further than 15 meters from the lander). The first successful rover was Sojourner in 1997.

Hrmph. Just so you kids don't think you're doing anything really new.

We're getting live feed and HD photos aren't we? Isn't that pretty much the only difference?

YOU may be, but my internet connection sucks too bad for "live feed".

*grumble*

[Yandere Schoolgirls]

If corporations head the government - that's fascist. If they head the military - that's fascist. If they head space exploration - that's fascist. Do you see a pattern here, or do we need to change our strategy young padawan?

You are using that word, but I don't think it means what you think it means.

[NMaa949]

If corporations head the government - that's fascist. If they head the military - that's fascist. If they head space exploration - that's fascist. Do you see a pattern here, or do we need to change our strategy young padawan?

You are using that word, but I don't think it means what you think it means.

If corporations head the government - that's fascist.

[Bralia]

The day we stop exploring is the day we commit ourselves to live in a stagnant world, devoid of curiosity, empty of dreams.

--- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Exploring demands risk. Exploration may not reveal something useful. And yet we still do it. Because something could be found that could revolutionize the world. Yandere, if you don't want to stick even your nose out the front door, that's your own business, but don't try and drag the rest of the world along with you.

[AiliailiA]

The interest in water on Mars is mostly that it makes Martian life of some kind much more likely. Secondly that future human enterprises there could use the water instead of having to ship it there. Shipping anything to Mars is insanely expensive and even a massive private space industry wouldn't reduce that cost much.

Martian life would be more like bacteria or funguses than anything we could "talk" to, but would be very interesting nonetheless. While uses of water would range from making food, to making breathable oxygen, to making rocket fuel (hydrogen and oxygen). A fuel source at that end is pretty much essential for any other interplanetary trade.

As other posters have made very clear, water from Mars is WAY too cheap a cargo to be worth shipping back to Earth. Even with space elevators at both ends, that would still be economic lunacy.

[Typhlochactas]

Tell us again how landing a rover on Mars generates profits for a corporation?

I'm just saying that I agree with some of Yandere's opinions. I'm not against the rovers but privitising space may not spell doom for human progress in space. Like I said (or what I borrowed from Yandere) it looked like no one would want to invest in the cell phone in the 80s, it was big, cumborsome and not really useful, then thirty years later we now have smartphones thanks to people investing in the cell phone in the 80s.

So you didn't answer it.

[Yandere Schoolgirls]

You are using that word, but I don't think it means what you think it means.

If corporations head the government - that's fascist.

As true as that maybe, the space exploration isn't necessarily an exclusively government organization. If a corporation head the space exploration, and I highly doubt just one corporation would, then that still wouldn't be fascist as at all.

[Garboshia]

I'm just saying that I agree with some of Yandere's opinions. I'm not against the rovers but privitising space may not spell doom for human progress in space. Like I said (or what I borrowed from Yandere) it looked like no one would want to invest in the cell phone in the 80s, it was big, cumborsome and not really useful, then thirty years later we now have smartphones thanks to people investing in the cell phone in the 80s.

So you didn't answer it.

Okay, I'll bite, if corporations ran everything in space exploration the Mars rovers never would have happened and I'll admit I'd be a lot less happy today. The coporations would have, at best, sent a probe to find resources that could be immediatly exploited, when they found nothing they probably would have said "Screw it, Mars ain't worth our time." and we never would have known a good amount of what we know about Mars today.

[AiliailiA]

Certainly private enterprise should be allowed to do space exploration and space industry if they want to. Nothing's stopping them, and in fact there are a huge number of commercial satellites. Investors pay most of the cost of launching them, and with some notable exceptions (eg Iridium) they make their money back and a profit.

Privatizing the government space programs won't do anything to help though. That's just removing a competitor from the market, and furthermore removing a subsidy from commercial ventures. Commercial launches pay for the rocket and the fuel (usually provided by Russians or Chinese with a blurry line between private and government owned) but rely on huge government investment in the past ... sunken costs in developing the booster systems which is probably in the trillions of dollars because remember that the first "science" rockets were converted from military missiles.

Basically private space industry has a huge head start from government programs. It's standing on the shoulders of a giant, and anyone who whines about government programs preventing private ones can go suck on a burning nozzle.

[NMaa949]

As true as that maybe, the space exploration isn't necessarily an exclusively government organization.

I didn't argue that it should be. Try again.

If a corporation head the space exploration, and I highly doubt just one corporation would, then that still wouldn't be fascist as at all.

No, that would be fascist. If corporations head space exploration, and end up administrating the population of some moon, or even a space station, that's rather fascist, as per the aforesaid definition.
Remember, If corporations head the government - that's fascist. If corporations are the government, that's definitely fascist.
If, for example, the people of a moon or a space station, or perhaps even a ship, have to go to a corporation rather than a government, that's fascist. Try again. I think you're getting closer.

Okay try this. If, to become an astronaut, you have to go to a corporation rather than a government, that's fascist.

[Typhlochactas]

So you didn't answer it.

Okay, I'll bite, if corporations ran everything in space exploration the Mars rovers never would have happened and I'll admit I'd be a lot less happy today. The coporations would have, at best, sent a probe to find resources that could be immediatly exploited, when they found nothing they probably would have said "Screw it, Mars ain't worth our time." and we never would have known a good amount of what we know about Mars today.

You still failed to answer my question.

[Norstal]

As other posters have made very clear, water from Mars is WAY too cheap a cargo to be worth shipping back to Earth. Even with space elevators at both ends, that would still be economic lunacy.

That's what cameras are for.

Okay, I'll bite, if corporations ran everything in space exploration the Mars rovers never would have happened and I'll admit I'd be a lot less happy today. The coporations would have, at best, sent a probe to find resources that could be immediatly exploited, when they found nothing they probably would have said "Screw it, Mars ain't worth our time." and we never would have known a good amount of what we know about Mars today.

You still failed to answer my question.

Nah, they did. They're saying that, "well, maybe my idea was bad after all."

[Garboshia]

Okay, I'll bite, if corporations ran everything in space exploration the Mars rovers never would have happened and I'll admit I'd be a lot less happy today. The coporations would have, at best, sent a probe to find resources that could be immediatly exploited, when they found nothing they probably would have said "Screw it, Mars ain't worth our time." and we never would have known a good amount of what we know about Mars today.

You still failed to answer my question.

The rovers would not bring in any profits at all, they are completly unprofitable. They are made purely for research and research only, even if NASA tried there wouldn't be anything to gain in terms of profits.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Okay try this. If, to become an astronaut, you have to go to a corporation rather than a government, that's fascist.

Please give me your definition of fascist.

[NMaa949]

Please give me your definition of fascist.

If you have to go to a corporation for want of anything, that's fascist. Government should mimic corporations and make copy-cat products. Availability of land for community gardens should be mandatory, government should make it's own pokemon games. Well, the latter is probably available free online. Government should make it's own tennis, it's own farms, couches, and lamps. It should foster a relationship between itself, the population and corporations in this regard, encouraging citizens to not just buy it's copycat products and laud the corporations for their more creative aspects, and encourage citizens to participate in them.

[Novairia]

Another great day for NASA, and a bad day for the taxpayer. How long will we let NASA waste our precious tax dollars that could be spent elsewhere in the economy? Abolishing NASA would lower taxes allowing us to purchase things that we actually need. Landing on Mars presents no more of a scientific significance than landing in the desert, albeit at least in the desert there are actual lifeforms and occurrences we could learn about, not just red rocks and sand. NASA is a waste of money, and should be abolished immediately.

You sir are not a very bright person indeed.. Was science to hard a subject in the 7th grade?
Spent elsewhere in the economy..
Like GM / Bank bailouts?
Tossing trillions of dollars of debt laden stimulus funding into locations where it was not needed?
Or maybe you would like to divert more funding into helping the work capable welfare leeches buy more drugs and booze?

Funding into Education / Science R&D / Military / Health (NASA and affiliates fall into all of those catagories) has always proven to provide larger return for every $ spent.
And you would place it where it either hampers economic growth or returns a much lower % return to the people and Gov?
Please, find a cliff and think for once.

Now im going to bed so I can get up and have an early start at work, make some hours, pay my taxes to help society, and continue living my awesome life.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Please give me your definition of fascist.

If you have to go to a corporation for want of anything, that's fascist. Government should mimic corporations and make copy-cat products. Availability of land for community gardens should be mandatory, government should make it's own pokemon games. Well, the latter is probably available free online. Government should make it's own tennis, it's own farms, couches, and lamps. It should foster a relationship between itself, the population and corporations in this regard, encouraging citizens to not just buy it's copycat products and laud the corporations for their more creative aspects.

But what you are describing isn't fascist. In fact it's remarkably like one of the argument fascist used against laissez-faire capatalist liberal democracies.

[NMaa949]

But what you are describing isn't fascist. In fact it's remarkably like one of the argument fascist used against laissez-faire capatalist liberal democracies.

Even better, then I'm covering all bases.