Why Iran needs the Nuke

[Lessnt]

Luckily saudi is bypassing the strait.
They just need to build more pipes.

[Audacious Huxley]

Nuclear weaponry is simply atrocious.

[Kalaspia-Shimarata]

Who cares? Since Iran was Persia and Persia used to attack Greece
Why do America have the right to nukes but Iran don't? Piss off you hypocrites and let the Persians do what they want!

[Lessnt]

Who cares? Since Iran was Persia and Persia used to attack Greece
Why do America have the right to nukes but Iran don't? Piss off you hypocrites and let the Persians do what they want!

Persians are terrorists.

[Janeron]

I don't believe any nation founded on Islamic principles should be allowed to even KNOW what a nuclear power is, much less that it can be formed into a weapon. So I support Israel in it's efforts.

[Pribram]

Who cares? Since Iran was Persia and Persia used to attack Greece
Why do America have the right to nukes but Iran don't? Piss off you hypocrites and let the Persians do what they want!

Persians are terrorists.

Troll more....

[Kalaspia-Shimarata]

Persians are terrorists.

Troll more....

Who me or Lessent?

[Partially Blind People]

Why not Janeron? Islamic civilisations tend to be far more understanding of people than those formed on Christianity in the west. If it wasn't for all of the Western intervention there has been over the years and the resentment it has caused towards the west, Iran would be one of the most trustworthy countries with the nuke.

Besides they don't have the tech to launch it yet anyway.

[Chinamerica]

How the hell could anyone think this? Are you insane? Iran is a terrible regime that have made countless human rights violations; Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East. Who cares if they 'don't treat Palestinians very well'? Palestine are the agressors, not Israel!

If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, there will be war, doesn't matter if Obama or Romney or damn Mickey Mouse is elected.

[Lessnt]

How the hell could anyone think this? Are you insane? Iran is a terrible regime that have made countless human rights violations; Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East. Who cares if they 'don't treat Palestinians very well'? Palestine are the agressors, not Israel!

If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, there will be war, doesn't matter if Obama or Romney or damn Mickey Mouse is elected.

We should an elect a Cow to office.

The arabs would have to respect our leader then.

[Costa Fiero]

Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East.

Turkey and Lebanon might want a word with you.

[Partially Blind People]

Israel is the only true democracy in the
Middle East. Who cares if they 'don't treat Palestinians very well'?

Thats a problem. We judge everywhere on if they are a democracy. Not on how they treat the people there. Like Middle Eastern countries that we've "liberated" we may have wrecked them with war but at least they now have a democracy. Did they even want a democracy?

[Pribram]

Troll more....

Who me or Lessent?

Lessent is trolling... You was right and i agree with you!

[Myrensis]

How the hell could anyone think this? Are you insane? Iran is a terrible regime that have made countless human rights violations; Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East. Who cares if they 'don't treat Palestinians very well'? Palestine are the agressors, not Israel!

Trolling or Sarcasm?

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

How the hell could anyone think this? Are you insane? Iran is a terrible regime that have made countless human rights violations; Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East. Who cares if they 'don't treat Palestinians very well'? Palestine are the agressors, not Israel!

If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, there will be war, doesn't matter if Obama or Romney or damn Mickey Mouse is elected.

We should an elect a Cow to office.

The arabs would have to respect our leader then.

Congratulations for confusing Islam and Hinduism.

[EnragedMaldivians]

How the hell could anyone think this? Are you insane? Iran is a terrible regime that have made countless human rights violations; Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East. Who cares if they 'don't treat Palestinians very well'? Palestine are the agressors, not Israel!

If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, there will be war, doesn't matter if Obama or Romney or damn Mickey Mouse is elected.

We should an elect a Cow to office.

The arabs would have to respect our leader then.

WTF!?

Is it possible for there to be more stupid in a post than there are words?

[Farnhamia]

We should an elect a Cow to office.

The arabs would have to respect our leader then.

WTF!?

Is it possible for there to be more stupid in a post than there are words?

Apparently it is possible, yes. *sigh*

[Ralkovia]

Who cares? Since Iran was Persia and Persia used to attack Greece
Why do America have the right to nukes but Iran don't? Piss off you hypocrites and let the Persians do what they want!

Because the US isn't a threat to US goals. Iran is. They are the enemy. Any advantage the enemy has, is a disadvantage to us. World politics is not about fairness.

[The-_Sicarii]

1. Ahmadinejad is sort of in charge.

2. Refer to 1.

3. US sends nucs to Israel, Israel modifies them and sends them back. This is relevant because without them, the US would be much less capable of remaining a nuclear power given how much we suck in the STEM fields. And, of course, superior tech is key to success in any given area. Russia's 10,000 nucs actually reinforce my argument.

Next, you're arguments don't assume that Russia and China want a world absent US hegemony.

Also, Iran's pressure on Saudi Arabia drives up oil prices. High oil prices are vital to Russia's economy.

Now, on Ancient Greece: the Peloponnesian War led to the collapse of the economies of most of the Greek city-states. This in turn caused Macedon to take advantage of their weakness and take over.

1. Sort of in charge? No, Khamenei is the absolute ruler of Iran, he calls the shots. Ahmadinejad is his subordinate, period.

2. Refuted

3. Do you have any proof that the US is dependent on a foreign country to maintain our nuclear arsenal? Also, though we lag in the STEM areas, we are still more-or-less the world leader in developing technology. I'm pretty sure our $500 military budget has some money set aside for keeping our nukes in working order.

4. Russia and China would prefer to see a world less dominated by the US, but they're not about to launch a nuclear war against us over Iran in order to do so. They're both well aware of the concept of MAD and have not yet built their secret moon bases to escape such consequences. Also, the relationship between Iran and its patrons might not be as strong as you think given that both China and Russia are highly repressive towards Muslims within their own borders and put down any talk of Islamic revolution with a heavy hand.

5. High oil prices are also good for Russia's economy, but I don't see Iran restricting the flow of oil from the Straight of Hormuz (where their own oil flows through) which would cripple their oil-export based economy in order to help the "Lesser Satan".

6. Athens had actually recovered her fleet, economy, government, and most of her empire within a decade of losing to Sparta. Sparta's own economy was the strongest it had ever been as a result of its hegemony and the Boetians reached a high point in their power. The reason that the Macedonians were able to annex their Greek cousins is because Phillip II had done a better job at unifying his people than Demosthenes. Might I suggest Donald Kagan's book on the topic if you'd like to learn more?

If you would recall your original argument was:

Then, economy collapse empirically leads to war.

Quite the opposite of what you just claimed.

1. He is the head of the Supreme National Security Council, which controls the nuclear policy and actions of Iran.

2. refer to 1.

3. Our MILITARY SPENDING is not the same as our SCIENTIFIC ABILITY. Israel has people who are better at developing nucs than the people the US has, so the US has Israel modify the nucs.

4. On MAD- once a nuc is launched, all bets are off. MAD is not relevant once there is already a chance of the AD part happening.

5. Iran never has and never will stop THEIR OWN oil exports. You seem to have missed that I'm talking about SAUDI ARABIA's oil exports. And they're helping this "Lesser Satan" already. In addition, Iran does not trade off with Russia nearly as much as Saudi Arabia, so Russia is OK with this scenario. Russia needs high oil prices because oil is CENTRAL TO THEIR ECONOMY.

6. On the Ancient Greece scenario: Athens lost most of it's $ to fund the war, and Sparta was so broke that they gave land to PERSIA (a mutual enemy) in order to get a naval fleet. You still haven't answered any of my arguments on the other city-states. That's a critical concession.

7. Besides that, you still have provided no arguments on the Roman, German and Chinese economy scenarios, so presumption of accuracy still rests with me.

[The-_Sicarii]

Who cares? Since Iran was Persia and Persia used to attack Greece
Why do America have the right to nukes but Iran don't? Piss off you hypocrites and let the Persians do what they want!

Because the US doesn't want to nuc people right now.

Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East.

Turkey and Lebanon might want a word with you.

Turkey is a democracy, and in that Chinamerica is not perfectly accurate. But it's pretty much common knowledge now that Lebanon is puppet government controlled by Syria/Hezbollah.

[The-_Sicarii]

Luckily saudi is bypassing the strait.
They just need to build more pipes.

If that were happening, the US would not be so worried about Iran blocking the Strait.

Why not Janeron? Islamic civilisations tend to be far more understanding of people than those formed on Christianity in the west. If it wasn't for all of the Western intervention there has been over the years and the resentment it has caused towards the west, Iran would be one of the most trustworthy countries with the nuke.

Besides they don't have the tech to launch it yet anyway.

Iran has one of the most advanced militaries in the region. Delivering a nuclear weapon would be easy; making the weapon is the part they're working on.

[Socialist EU]

Luckily saudi is bypassing the strait.
They just need to build more pipes.

If that were happening, the US would not be so worried about Iran blocking the Strait.

Why not Janeron? Islamic civilisations tend to be far more understanding of people than those formed on Christianity in the west. If it wasn't for all of the Western intervention there has been over the years and the resentment it has caused towards the west, Iran would be one of the most trustworthy countries with the nuke.

Besides they don't have the tech to launch it yet anyway.

Iran has one of the most advanced militaries in the region. Delivering a nuclear weapon would be easy; making the weapon is the part they're working on.

Of course they are.

Turkey is an [authoritarian] democracy

Correct and fixed.

[SD_Film Artists]

*Telegram on sanctions against Iran*

What would be a better solution other than an ineffective "working class revolution"? Iran can't continue in how it's behaving, but a military intervention is disproportional and will likely only make things worse. Sanctions punish the nation without creating more war. Iran can lift the sanctions anytime it wants to by complying with the international community.

[Socialist EU]

*Telegram on sanctions against Iran*

What would be a better solution other than an ineffective "working class revolution"? Iran can't continue in how it's behaving, but a military intervention is disproportional and will likely only make things worse. Sanctions punish the nation without creating more war. Iran can lift the sanctions anytime it wants to by complying with the international community.

A revolution is hardly on the minds of the Iranian working class right now. Why? The sanctions are causing ordinary Iranians to fight for survival, because the selfish tops of Washington want to maintain the US as a hegemonic power, its a rational response from their point of view, but not from ours. You are quite happy with punishing the nation, even thou it punishes Iranians too! That is extremely callous of you to declare your support for a collective punishment on ordinary Iranians because of a corrupt elite. I'm sure ordinary Iranians appreciate your concern for their welfare. I'm sure ordinary Iranians appreciate your support in helping make it easier for the Iranian theocracy to come down even harder on them.

Meanwhile, if you're really concerned about peace in the middle east, why will you not advocate a nuclear-weapons free middle east, as Labour MPs Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell have? As far as I know, you're not one of the tops in Washington and have no vested interest in maintaining this theatre, so why do you naively go along with it?

[Myrensis]

1. He is the head of the Supreme National Security Council, which controls the nuclear policy and actions of Iran.

2. refer to 1.

Fun Fact: Nothing the Supreme National Security Council says or does is binding until Khameini gives it the green light.

3. Our MILITARY SPENDING is not the same as our SCIENTIFIC ABILITY. Israel has people who are better at developing nucs than the people the US has, so the US has Israel modify the nucs.

Really? Israel won't even confirm that it has ever laid eyes on a nuclear weapon, I'm curious as to how you and only you are aware of this astonishing fact that the US depends on them to design our entire nuclear arsenal.

4. On MAD- once a nuc is launched, all bets are off. MAD is not relevant once there is already a chance of the AD part happening.

How? If Iran nukes Israel first, China and Russia will wash their hands of the Ayatollahs faster than you take a shot of vodka, they have no economic or security interests in Iran compelling enough to risk engaging in a nuclear war with the US. If Israel nukes first, the same thing applies, plus they get to go wild lambasting the United States in every forum they can find for our utter failure to maintain nuclear security and responsibility among our own allies.

5. Iran never has and never will stop THEIR OWN oil exports. You seem to have missed that I'm talking about SAUDI ARABIA's oil exports. And they're helping this "Lesser Satan" already. In addition, Iran does not trade off with Russia nearly as much as Saudi Arabia, so Russia is OK with this scenario. Russia needs high oil prices because oil is CENTRAL TO THEIR ECONOMY.

Are we going to back to "Iran suddenly full of complete idiots" and assuming that the Iranians believe that if they close the Straits nobody will bother their own oil shipping out of it? One way or another closing the Straits is an act of last resort for Iran that will devastate their economy, they're not going to do it on Russia's say so.