Has the UN Failed?

[Ethel mermania]

Other nations would have taken action, if the UN was not in place, and in the case of rwanda, and syria, mass slaughter would have been adverted.

Simply not true, and I'd like to see you try to prove this hypothetical alternate reality.

I don't see anything to suggest that nations would be more willing to directly intervene in the internal affairs of other nations if the UN wasn't there. To be brutally honest, nobody cared about Rwanda and nobody would have intervened there. And nobody would intervene in Syria against our old friend Assad and go against the wishes of Russia and China.

Alternate realities can not be proved. So we are just going to have to disagree.

Add palastine to the bad list.

[Ethel mermania]

It proves that client states, genocides and conflicting interests between powerful countries would not exist without the U.N. The world has gone to shit since 1945.

Woe upon the United Nations.

That's not the UNs fault, the League of Nations didn't do much better. It doesn't prove that the world would be better off without the UN, it just proves the UN isn't perfect.

As I said in my inital post, they have done good, they have done bad.

[Gravlen]

Simply not true, and I'd like to see you try to prove this hypothetical alternate reality.

I don't see anything to suggest that nations would be more willing to directly intervene in the internal affairs of other nations if the UN wasn't there. To be brutally honest, nobody cared about Rwanda and nobody would have intervened there. And nobody would intervene in Syria against our old friend Assad and go against the wishes of Russia and China.

Alternate realities can not be proved. So we are just going to have to disagree.

Add palastine to the bad list.

Indeed.

On a related note, on the good side, without the UN we would probably have been conquered by alien invaders. If the UN was not in place, mass slaughter would not have been adverted.

[Karcha]

The UN has failed big time.

All they really are is a warband that uses the words "peace keeping" as an excuse to rack up dps on their missions.

Also they never go far enough with their agreements on peace or whatever.

[Inis Arglidd]

The UN hasn't failed, but it has changed it's goals.

[TheSurvived]

The UN has done good, although I do agree it's like the League of Nations in a modern sense.
However, without UN, nobody would care about what goes on in Syria, Somalia, etc. Some small organizations maybe but not on the terms of an entire country putting into efforts. Can UN solve every problem in the world? -NO. Nobody can do that alone, it's an collected efforts by EVERYONE. And quite frankly we all know that UN is not consisted of every country in the world.

UN may not be as effective as everyone expects to be, but it's definitely necessary.

Now, peace....

[Ethel mermania]

Alternate realities can not be proved. So we are just going to have to disagree.

Add palastine to the bad list.

Indeed.

On a related note, on the good side, without the UN we would probably have been conquered by alien invaders. If the UN was not in place, mass slaughter would not have been adverted.

See I think the UN woukd help with the alien invasion, first the aliens would have to propose a new world order, and if the french agreed, we know the british would veto it, just to spite the french. Then a couple of fact finding missions would have to be sent out, to understand and bring it all back to a general assembly ™ committee. The committee would refer it back to the GA ™, for a vote, which could not come until the next sesion in october, and you think the aliens are going to find parking in NY in october? Not a chance. So thry will park anywhere, no one really understands NYC parking rules, and the spaceship will be illegally parked and get towed. And as everyone knows to get your vehicle out of the impound lot, you have to have a valid licrnse and insurance, plus prove ownership, and what are the odds of them having that. They will have to go home to get their documentation, fat chance of that, we got their vehicle. And by the time they get back, the fines and storage fees will be enourmous. We will defeat the aliens in detail and paperwork.

[Aleckandor]

It has been quite effective in the past, but it does sorta fail to the point where Lando Calrissian breaks into your house and starts advertising an insecticide in French.

[United Marxist Nations]

The UN should have acted in Rwanda (real action, not that pussyfooting).

Rwanda seems to be brought up a lot on this thread. We do have to remember that Rwanda is a land locked nation with poor transportation infrastructure surrounded by countries with again poor transportation infrastructure. Mobilizing a significant ground force there would be politically difficult and expensive. Then there is the danger of the peacekeeping army being drawn into a protracted fight with sections of the populace. The Rwandan conflict saw a civil war between two half of the population. There was never going to be a painless out come from something like that.

People didn't expect a painless outcome but, they didn't expect the UN to allow the worst possible outcome. The UNAMIR Peacekeepers were not allowed to fire unless they were in danger; President Bill Clinton now says that if the US had sent just 500 Peacekeepers then over 50,000 lives could have been saved. Instead, the UN voted to remove it's troops, allowing 1.171 million people to be killed.

[Noobubersland]

Rwanda seems to be brought up a lot on this thread. We do have to remember that Rwanda is a land locked nation with poor transportation infrastructure surrounded by countries with again poor transportation infrastructure. Mobilizing a significant ground force there would be politically difficult and expensive. Then there is the danger of the peacekeeping army being drawn into a protracted fight with sections of the populace. The Rwandan conflict saw a civil war between two half of the population. There was never going to be a painless out come from something like that.

People didn't expect a painless outcome but, they didn't expect the UN to allow the worst possible outcome. The UNAMIR Peacekeepers were not allowed to fire unless they were in danger; President Bill Clinton now says that if the US had sent just 500 Peacekeepers then over 50,000 lives could have been saved. Instead, the UN voted to remove it's troops, allowing 1.171 million people to be killed.

They didn't pull any of them out, Belgium withdrew, not the UN, so the Canadians and a few others were all that remained. It really fucked a lot of them up afterwards, especially Dallaire

[The UK in Exile]

Rwanda seems to be brought up a lot on this thread. We do have to remember that Rwanda is a land locked nation with poor transportation infrastructure surrounded by countries with again poor transportation infrastructure. Mobilizing a significant ground force there would be politically difficult and expensive. Then there is the danger of the peacekeeping army being drawn into a protracted fight with sections of the populace. The Rwandan conflict saw a civil war between two half of the population. There was never going to be a painless out come from something like that.

People didn't expect a painless outcome but, they didn't expect the UN to allow the worst possible outcome. The UNAMIR Peacekeepers were not allowed to fire unless they were in danger; President Bill Clinton now says that if the US had sent just 500 Peacekeepers then over 50,000 lives could have been saved. Instead, the UN voted to remove it's troops, allowing 1.171 million people to be killed.

where the fuck where they then bill?

the fact the US fucked UNAMIR over is Clintons failure, not the UN's.

[United Marxist Nations]

People didn't expect a painless outcome but, they didn't expect the UN to allow the worst possible outcome. The UNAMIR Peacekeepers were not allowed to fire unless they were in danger; President Bill Clinton now says that if the US had sent just 500 Peacekeepers then over 50,000 lives could have been saved. Instead, the UN voted to remove it's troops, allowing 1.171 million people to be killed.

where the fuck where they then bill?

the fact the US fucked UNAMIR over is Clintons failure, not the UN's.

Plenty of other countries didn't send in troops either; eventually, France sent in some troops but, it was too late by then. The UN gave the Peacekeepers orders to not fire unless under direct threat.

[The UK in Exile]

where the fuck where they then bill?

the fact the US fucked UNAMIR over is Clintons failure, not the UN's.

Plenty of other countries didn't send in troops either; eventually, France sent in some troops but, it was too late by then. The UN gave the Peacekeepers orders to not fire unless under direct threat.

show me their presidents claiming that just 500 Peacekeepers could have saved over 50,000 lives.

[EmeraldBot]

Partially. The UN served its original purpose, but it is falling apart. The other nations are becoming dead poor, *cough Greece *cough, and right now, Germany has the largest economy in it, followed by France. I don't think the Germans like the idea of ruining their economy in order to give the others a temporary boost.

[The UK in Exile]

Partially. The UN served its original purpose, but it is falling apart. The other nations are becoming dead poor, *cough Greece *cough, and right now, Germany has the largest economy in it, followed by France. I don't think the Germans like the idea of ruining their economy in order to give the others a temporary boost.

might you be confusing the UN and the EU?

[Altito Asmoro]

Partially. The UN served its original purpose, but it is falling apart. The other nations are becoming dead poor, *cough Greece *cough, and right now, Germany has the largest economy in it, followed by France. I don't think the Germans like the idea of ruining their economy in order to give the others a temporary boost.

It's UN right? There are other large nations with thriving economy, like China, South Korea, India, Russia, Indonesia, Brazil, South Africa etc.

[Cameroi]

the u.n. is to the planet, what the articles of confederation, that predated the federal government of the u.s., was to the 13 original colonies. it hasn't "failed" so much as was intentionally designed from the outset to be hamstrung as a protection of the individual sovereignty of, and anarchy between, nations. that it accomplishes as much as it does, in spite of this handicap, is truly amazing, and deserves a great deal of recognition and acclaim for doing so.

the real failure, is that a world dominated by a culture, much of who's origin is in america, has come to ignore, on the part of MANY national leaders, of MANY countries, and be indifferent to, the benefits of peace and lawful orderliness.

[Vedastia]

Since the United Nations has failed in its efforts to prevent war and foster international cooperation, it has failed in its purpose and was not necessary from its founding.