Atheists - If the Bible isn't true, why is it so remarkable?

[Norstal]

There is much much evidence of supernatural occurrences whether it be a healing performed or even "ghost" encounters. The supernatural definitely exists. Why is it wrong of me to point out that there was no real intelligent counter argument made?

You're seriously using *ghost encounters* as proof of the supernatural?
As soon as you can get me a ghost in a controlled environment, I'll listen to you. As for now, try a different straw to grasp at.

BOOO!

Do you believe in ghosts now?

[Xathranaar]

You're coming on a little strong with the martyr complex there. Much more likely he'd just point to the total lack of corroborating evidence of any supernatural occurrences.

There is much much evidence of supernatural occurrences whether it be a healing performed or even "ghost" encounters. The supernatural definitely exists. Why is it wrong of me to point out that there was no real intelligent counter argument made?

Well there's a definite oxymoron. If it was demonstrable, it would be natural.

Also, you notice how your question does not in any way comment upon my post at all? I've noticed this before in my conversations with a certain type of dogmatist (usually religious, though in at least one instance a UFO junkie): Their words are slippery... they are made as though they are in response to something, but they somehow avoid body contact with any of your points, and thusly evade body contact when you set upon them.

Which is not to say that you are such a person, merely that you demonstrate the Ontos of one.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

You're seriously using *ghost encounters* as proof of the supernatural?
As soon as you can get me a ghost in a controlled environment, I'll listen to you. As for now, try a different straw to grasp at.

BOOO!

GAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!

[Katyuscha]

Right. Notice how this bit of context is completely irrelevant?

I am saying that the meaning of jealous is different here as jealous in general refers to wanting something you do not deserve while God fully deserves the worship. It is like if you won a competition and the prize went to someone who did not even compete. Would you not want your prize? Please do not pick apart my metaphor it was the best i could think of for now.

That's not the definition of jealousy. Don't make up definitions to prove your points.

[The Nuclear Fist]

If you read before that idol worship is being condemned. It is saying that God will not let you worship idols when he alone deserves worship. (Praise and worship are different things as a clarification).

Killing someone for their beliefs is wrong.

And yet, it is one of the first things Christians did as soon as they got a little power.

Ask Hypatia.

And the Philistines.

[Xathranaar]

Right. Notice how this bit of context is completely irrelevant?

I am saying that the meaning of jealous is different here as jealous in general refers to wanting something you do not deserve while God fully deserves the worship. It is like if you won a competition and the prize went to someone who did not even compete. Would you not want your prize? Please do not pick apart my metaphor it was the best i could think of for now.

How is that not envy?

[Revolutionarily]

If you read before that idol worship is being condemned. It is saying that God will not let you worship idols when he alone deserves worship. (Praise and worship are different things as a clarification).

Killing someone for their beliefs is wrong.

And yet, it is one of the first things Christians did as soon as they got a little power.

Ask Hypatia.

Same as saying that Islam creates jihad and all of these terrible dictatorships which i assume you disagree with

[Norstal]

Killing someone for their beliefs is wrong.

And yet, it is one of the first things Christians did as soon as they got a little power.

Ask Hypatia.

Same as saying that Islam creates jihad and all of these terrible dictatorships which i assume you disagree with

And yet I don't see the Abrahamic god stopping them.

Ergo, your Bible is fictional.

[The Batorys]

Then why bother worshiping him?

I mean, since you could end up in hell anyway based on one of his psychopathic whims.

I'd rather worship gods that aren't quite as douchebaggy as that.

He wishes for all to go to heaven(a place for the clean) however we have fallen short and have sinned. Therefore we all and yes even me deserve to go to hell. The messiah, yes Jesus, died for the sins of all of those willing to lead a life of repentance and follow the Lord. I am just clarifying, if you thought he meant he just chooses random people to torture for fun or something he does not. He wants all humans to live with him which is why the sacrifice was made. However God being a just God will punish evil and we are all evil and all should be punished. God does not wish for his creation to be evil.

I'm responding to the poster I was quoting. Your view of Yahweh and his don't seem to match.

Myself, I'm a pagan, so I worship other deities.

[America and Canada]

Killing someone for their beliefs is wrong.

And yet, it is one of the first things Christians did as soon as they got a little power.

Ask Hypatia.

Same as saying that Islam creates jihad and all of these terrible dictatorships which i assume you disagree with

Well, seeing as a Jihad is essentially a war to spread Islam, yes, Islam is the cause of Jihads.

[The Archregimancy]

The OP to this thread depresses me.

I sometimes wish I could find an excuse acceptable to all of NSG, regardless of their religious inclinations (or lack thereof), to offer a blanket disavowal of Evangelical Bible Literalist Protestants.

All I can say, fully accepting that many of you find all variants Christianity to be equally inherently ridiculous, is that regardless of the prominence they've achieved within American political and cultural discourse, Evangelical literalists remain a fairly small minority within global Christianity.

They do not represent most of us.

It's okay Arch. I feel ya bro. I feel ya.

Even an Orthodox doesn't take the Bible literally. Mind = blown.

We never have.

The concept of absolute Biblical literalism is a fairly recent concept within Christianity, the Protestant manifestation of which is a largely 19th-century concept.

The notion of Biblical literalism is actually somewhat recent.

Helpful quote:

"What intelligent person can imagine that there was a first “day,” then a second and a third “day”—evening and morning—without the sun, the moon, and the stars? And that the first “day”—if it makes sense to call it such—existed even without a sky?
Who is foolish enough to believe that, like a human gardener, God planted a garden in Eden in the East and placed in it a tree of life, visible and physical, so that by biting into its fruit one would obtain life? And that by eating from another tree, one would come to know good and evil? And when it is said that God walked in the garden in the evening and that Adam hid himself behind a tree, I cannot imagine that anyone will doubt that these details point symbolically to spiritual meanings, by using an historical narrative which did not literally happen."

(Origen De Principiis 4.1.6; written before 231AD)

[The Tiger Kingdom]

Killing someone for their beliefs is wrong.

And yet, it is one of the first things Christians did as soon as they got a little power.

Ask Hypatia.

Same as saying that Islam creates jihad and all of these terrible dictatorships which i assume you disagree with

No. The equal statement would be: "Islam has also destroyed people that didn't agree with them."
Which is indisputably true, both in the Christian and Muslim sense.
Ask the Cathars.

[Stovokor]

Same as saying that Islam creates jihad and all of these terrible dictatorships which i assume you disagree with

Well, seeing as a Jihad is essentially a war to spread Islam, yes, Islam is the cause of Jihads.

Hmm crusades seem to have a very familiar ring too.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Same as saying that Islam creates jihad and all of these terrible dictatorships which i assume you disagree with

And yet I don't see the Abrahamic god stopping them.

Ergo, your Bible is fictional.

What some Christians seem to miss is that the Bible wasn't written in one sitting. It was compiled by a Church council 300 or so years after the alleged life and death of Jesus, from many many documents that were circulating around.

As you said, it could be fictional.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Killing someone for their beliefs is wrong.

And yet, it is one of the first things Christians did as soon as they got a little power.

Ask Hypatia.

Same as saying that Islam creates jihad and all of these terrible dictatorships which i assume you disagree with

Christians did terrible things to the Philistines well before Mohammad was a glint in his father's eye.

[Revolutionarily]

Same as saying that Islam creates jihad and all of these terrible dictatorships which i assume you disagree with

And yet I don't see the Abrahamic god stopping them.

Ergo, your Bible is fictional.

That is a product of our own sin, it is not God's will for that to happen. Then you can ask many questions from there such as why did God create man in the first place knowing this would happen, why does he not stop it, and so forth. Which will be your reply?

[Norstal]

It's okay Arch. I feel ya bro. I feel ya.

Even an Orthodox doesn't take the Bible literally. Mind = blown.

We never have.

The concept of absolute Biblical literalism is a fairly recent concept within Christianity, the Protestant manifestation of which is a largely 19th-century concept.

Helpful quote:

"What intelligent person can imagine that there was a first “day,” then a second and a third “day”—evening and morning—without the sun, the moon, and the stars? And that the first “day”—if it makes sense to call it such—existed even without a sky?
Who is foolish enough to believe that, like a human gardener, God planted a garden in Eden in the East and placed in it a tree of life, visible and physical, so that by biting into its fruit one would obtain life? And that by eating from another tree, one would come to know good and evil? And when it is said that God walked in the garden in the evening and that Adam hid himself behind a tree, I cannot imagine that anyone will doubt that these details point symbolically to spiritual meanings, by using an historical narrative which did not literally happen."

(Origen De Principiis 4.1.6; written before 231AD)

God I hope none of our fictional works turn into non-fiction.

...

I shouldn't have said that.

[Svalbar]

The bible is the number one fantasy roman about a 2000 year old mans imaginary friend!

[Xathranaar]

And yet I don't see the Abrahamic god stopping them.

Ergo, your Bible is fictional.

That is a product of our own sin, it is not God's will for that to happen. Then you can ask many questions from there such as why did God create man in the first place knowing this would happen, why does he not stop it, and so forth. Which will be your reply?

Your god is clearly a dick for letting innocent people suffer and die when he could prevent it with trivial effort.

[Norstal]

And yet I don't see the Abrahamic god stopping them.

Ergo, your Bible is fictional.

That is a product of our own sin, it is not God's will for that to happen.

Doesn't matter. It's fictional if it is not factual. The fact that if were to take the Bible literally it would not be true and that most of the stuff are metaphorical makes it fictional.

Then you can ask many questions from there such as why did God create man in the first place knowing this would happen, why does he not stop it, and so forth. Which will be your reply?

My answer would be that it is irrelevant in determining whether the Bible is a fictional work or not and that your attempt at creating a red herring is cute, but not as cute as my goddess, Madoka.

[Revolutionarily]

And yet I don't see the Abrahamic god stopping them.

Ergo, your Bible is fictional.

What some Christians seem to miss is that the Bible wasn't written in one sitting. It was compiled by a Church council 300 or so years after the alleged life and death of Jesus, from many many documents that were circulating around.

As you said, it could be fictional.

I know that, i think it makes it more valid. To have many well educated and respected people from all of Christianity from many places having a very very very long decision making process with various pieces of scripture from it taking the scripture that was common belief in all the various different beliefs of Christians as well as scripture which was accurately written at a time that would make sense. I think that makes it much more valid than one man pouring out all of his thoughts into a book.

[Jassysworth 1]

And yet I don't see the Abrahamic god stopping them.

Ergo, your Bible is fictional.

That is a product of our own sin, it is not God's will for that to happen. Then you can ask many questions from there such as why did God create man in the first place knowing this would happen, why does he not stop it, and so forth. Which will be your reply?

Well if it was me I would have done one of two things...

1) Created man and somehow stopped the evil stuff with my powers
2) Not created man and save myself the trouble and responsibility of stopping so much stuff

Or something like that...

But the story wouldn't have sold cause no one wants to read about a benevolent invisible man. We need an interesting slightly sociopathic main character for the stories to sell... You know, someone who will let some of the characters fall due to acts of hubris etc.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

We never have.

The concept of absolute Biblical literalism is a fairly recent concept within Christianity, the Protestant manifestation of which is a largely 19th-century concept.

God I hope none of our fictional works turn into non-fiction.

...

I shouldn't have said that.

Already working on my gigantic series of books featuring a thinly-disguised (ok, not even really disguised) version of me saving the universe repeatedly, dictating my law to those who follow me, and just generally being godly. I'll tie it in with some real people who exist today, and throw in references to modern events. After I'm done, I'll preserve them in a very well-fortified safe in a secure location.
When they're unearthed after the fall of our civilization, as a new one is rising... We'll see.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

What some Christians seem to miss is that the Bible wasn't written in one sitting. It was compiled by a Church council 300 or so years after the alleged life and death of Jesus, from many many documents that were circulating around.

As you said, it could be fictional.

I know that, i think it makes it more valid. To have many well educated and respected people from all of Christianity from many places having a very very very long decision making process with various pieces of scripture from it taking the scripture that was common belief in all the various different beliefs of Christians as well as scripture which was accurately written at a time that would make sense. I think that makes it much more valid than one man pouring out all of his thoughts into a book.

It's also the absolutely perfect opportunity for the texts to be corrupted and changed beyond all recognition to fit the political demands of Constantine and the Council of Nicaea.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

What some Christians seem to miss is that the Bible wasn't written in one sitting. It was compiled by a Church council 300 or so years after the alleged life and death of Jesus, from many many documents that were circulating around.

As you said, it could be fictional.

I know that, i think it makes it more valid. To have many well educated and respected people from all of Christianity from many places having a very very very long decision making process with various pieces of scripture from it taking the scripture that was common belief in all the various different beliefs of Christians as well as scripture which was accurately written at a time that would make sense. I think that makes it much more valid than one man pouring out all of his thoughts into a book.

I don't think it makes it any more valid. You got a group of men who decided what was cannon and what wasn't out of many texts. It seems arbitrary, to me, because they discarded so many other texts circulating at the time in what seemed like an attempt to stamp out other branches of Christian belief.