Westboro Chuch restricted

[Cronatian]

Thank god they did something to stop these assholes. They give Christians a pretty bad name, an even worse one than Mormons and Catholics.

[Katganistan]

The soldiers deserve respect... but acting this childishly is an insult to their memory. Instead, they should be breathing that free air those cold bodies earned them, feel the basic human rights they have acquired through those soldiers' sacrifice, but this infringement on the first amendment to silence their foul words... it disgusts me.

They aren't silenced. They can spew their shit anywhere more than 300 feet away from the funeral, outside of the five or so hours before, during and after it.

They can go protest their little hearts out in the middle of the town square, in front of city hall, in front of Congress, etc. etc. And I agree, it should have been extended to ANY funeral.

[Katganistan]

I think this law is the only thing keeping the westboro baptists from eventually going too far and getting beaten down wholesale by an angry mob.

Which would rightly end with people who commit assault being arrested and prosecuted.

Personally, I favor the IRYG approach.

[The Orson Empire]

Well I'm a Baptist but I'm surprised at this. I'm glad the government put a stop to this.

[Olthar]

I think you need to stop being pedantic.

he's not being pedantic. far from it. he's engaging the grey matter between his ears and using it to discern logical flaws in peoples knee jerk reactions.

Oh, yes. Clearly, because I wasn't being as insanely specific as you'd like, I'm just mindlessly belting out facile nonsense, right?

Stop being petty. Risottia's post has absolutely nothing to do with mine, and you know it. It's just a pathetic strawman designed to fabricate a meaningless, off-topic argument.

[Katganistan]

he's not being pedantic. far from it. he's engaging the grey matter between his ears and using it to discern logical flaws in peoples knee jerk reactions.

Oh, yes. Clearly, because I wasn't being as insanely specific as you'd like, I'm just mindlessly belting out facile nonsense, right?

Stop being petty. Risottia's post has absolutely nothing to do with mine, and you know it. It's just a pathetic strawman designed to fabricate a meaningless, off-topic argument.

I didn't see it that way, but perhaps we should get back on topic?

[Chestaan]

The WBC are just like the advertisements in that Halloween special of The Simpsons, if you ignore them, they'll go away. I doubt this legislation will do anything but further encourage the WBC.

[Occupied Deutschland]

I think it's wrong that such a measure is enforced about soldiers' funerals only. It should be about ANYONE's funeral.

While funerals are solemn occasions, and anyone who would use one to garner attention for their beliefs or cause is a pretty undeniable scumbag, why do they deserve special treatment? Because people could get their feelings hurt? Jews get their feelings hurt when people deny the holocaust and scream "heil Hitler!", and Blacks get their feelings hurt when the KKK holds a march or rally. Yet in both those situations and many others similar to them it has been commonly held that that speech IS protected under the Constitution. I see no reason why dead members of a race/religion/opinion/etc. deserve more protection than the living and it isn't a crime to make the living listen to your bigoted hateful opinions, why exempt the dead from dealing with bigots and why limit the bigots in this way but not others?

To reiterate, anyone who WOULD picket a funeral for a cause is not anyone I'd want to know personally.

[Shofercia]

Congress Passes Restrictions On Military Funeral Protests, Delivers Blow To Westboro Baptist Church

Westboro Baptist Church protesters will soon be severely limited in their ability to disrupt military funerals, after Congress passed a sweeping veterans bill this week that includes restrictions on such demonstrations.

According to "The Honoring America’s Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012," which is now headed to President Barack Obama's desk, demonstrators will no longer be allowed to picket military funerals two hours before or after a service. The bill also requires protestors to be at least 300 feet away from grieving family members.

This aspect of the legislation was introduced by Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine), who, at the urging of a teenage constituent, proposed new limitations on military funeral demonstrations as a response to a 2011 Supreme Court case that ruled such actions were protected under the First Amendment.

In the wake of that decision, many have turned to counter-protest efforts to block Westboro Baptist Church's disruptive and insensitive displays, which frequently suggest that U.S. soldiers have been killed as God's vengeance for gay tolerance.

Thousands turned out in Missouri last month, forming a "human wall" around a church where the service for a fallen soldier was being held.

Earlier in July, hundreds of Texas A&M students showed up in a similar effort, joining together to create a barrier between Westboro Baptist Church members and a military funeral.

And while not at a specific service, a group of demonstrators dressed as zombies gathered at a military base in Washington last month, far outnumbering and overshadowing followers of the far-right congregation.

The bill also contains a variety of measures meant to address veterans health, benefits, housing and education. Obama is expected to sign to the legislation later this month.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/0 ... 33080.html

I'm sure I don't have to tell you who the WBBC is.
I personally support a restriction on their actions, although I am aware that an argument could be made against this bill for reasons of Free Speech.
What do ya'll think of this NS?

I support the restriction. Freedom of speech is not the same as freedom to intentionally inflict emotional distress. If the law is actually limited to this:

According to "The Honoring America’s Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012," which is now headed to President Barack Obama's desk, demonstrators will no longer be allowed to picket military funerals two hours before or after a service. The bill also requires protestors to be at least 300 feet away from grieving family members.

I really don't have an issue with it. It's a reasonable time, place and manner regulation, designed to protect the interests of the state, by protecting the interest of the military families.

[Crumlark]

The soldiers deserve respect... but acting this childishly is an insult to their memory. Instead, they should be breathing that free air those cold bodies earned them, feel the basic human rights they have acquired through those soldiers' sacrifice, but this infringement on the first amendment to silence their foul words... it disgusts me.

They aren't silenced. They can spew their shit anywhere more than 300 feet away from the funeral, outside of the five or so hours before, during and after it.

They can go protest their little hearts out in the middle of the town square, in front of city hall, in front of Congress, etc. etc. And I agree, it should have been extended to ANY funeral.

I almost had a heart attack when I saw a mod quoting my post....
And now I say I am pacified on the subject, upon the information Kat has given me.

[Cill Charthaigh]

The WBC's words are foul, but this is just Congress dropping their pants and taking a huge horse shit on the Constitution.

EDIT: I read more closely, and they can still spew their vomit apparently. Disregard

[United Kingdom of Poland]

I think it's wrong that such a measure is enforced about soldiers' funerals only. It should be about ANYONE's funeral.

While funerals are solemn occasions, and anyone who would use one to garner attention for their beliefs or cause is a pretty undeniable scumbag, why do they deserve special treatment? Because people could get their feelings hurt? Jews get their feelings hurt when people deny the holocaust and scream "heil Hitler!", and Blacks get their feelings hurt when the KKK holds a march or rally. Yet in both those situations and many others similar to them it has been commonly held that that speech IS protected under the Constitution. I see no reason why dead members of a race/religion/opinion/etc. deserve more protection than the living and it isn't a crime to make the living listen to your bigoted hateful opinions, why exempt the dead from dealing with bigots and why limit the bigots in this way but not others?

To reiterate, anyone who WOULD picket a funeral for a cause is not anyone I'd want to know personally.

for the KKK and skinheads part of it, where can I ask for a bill limiting them, and it should be a crime for making people listen to hate speach.

[Occupied Deutschland]

While funerals are solemn occasions, and anyone who would use one to garner attention for their beliefs or cause is a pretty undeniable scumbag, why do they deserve special treatment? Because people could get their feelings hurt? Jews get their feelings hurt when people deny the holocaust and scream "heil Hitler!", and Blacks get their feelings hurt when the KKK holds a march or rally. Yet in both those situations and many others similar to them it has been commonly held that that speech IS protected under the Constitution. I see no reason why dead members of a race/religion/opinion/etc. deserve more protection than the living and it isn't a crime to make the living listen to your bigoted hateful opinions, why exempt the dead from dealing with bigots and why limit the bigots in this way but not others?

To reiterate, anyone who WOULD picket a funeral for a cause is not anyone I'd want to know personally.

for the KKK and skinheads part of it, where can I ask for a bill limiting them, and it should be a crime for making people listen to hate speach.

Write your congressman I guess.

[Risottia]

I think it's wrong that such a measure is enforced about soldiers' funerals only. It should be about ANYONE's

...Because people could get their feelings hurt?

Yes. People can be receive damage even from words, expecially when they're more vulnerable because they're grieving.

Jews get their feelings hurt when people deny the holocaust and scream "heil Hitler!", and Blacks get their feelings hurt when the KKK holds a march or rally.

Ehm, no. False analogy. Yelling insults as a funeral, while disgusting, is still not as severe as promoting ethnical discrimination or ethnical cleansing - that's what Nazis and KKK do.

I see no reason why dead members of a race/religion/opinion/etc. deserve more protection than the living and it isn't a crime to make the living listen to your bigoted hateful opinions, why exempt the dead from dealing with bigots and why limit the bigots in this way but not others?

Because people grieving at a funeral are already suffering and they don't really need trolls increasing it. If it happened at the funeral of a close relative of mine, I'd sue and ask for damage refund. And I would also be quite likely to win.

[Shofercia]

I fail to see why military funerals should be protected ahead of the funerals of the countless other people that Westboro Baptist feels the need to picket.

I'm fairly certain that if WBC start picketing other funerals, Congress won't hesitate to bitchslap them again.

I can't say I'm in favor of this and I frankly think it's unconstitutional (hell, for once when I say that I even have some court backing on it since they (the Supreme Court) said this was a constitutional exercise of free speech as well).
The WBC is pathetic, disgusting, attention-hogging bigots with no grounding in anything being able to be graciously considered a rational thought, but I think they should have the right to express their disturbed opinion. If for no other reason than seeing the counter-protestors show up to drown the idiots out fills me with some sense of hope for the human race. THAT is how this should be handled, not by Congress passing a law saying citizens can't say things because of how offensive/inappropriate/ill-timed/whatever that speech is.

Edit: Clarified who 'they' were

Actually Congress can prevent ill-time speeches. Shouting "FIRE" in a theater at the time that it's empty - acceptable. Shouting "FIRE" in a theater at the time that it's full - unacceptable.

America's laws prevent us from doing the right thing to WBC.

Sending them to North Korea?

The men go to North Korea, and the women - to Saudi Arabia

Thank god they did something to stop these assholes. They give Christians a pretty bad name, an even worse one than Mormons and Catholics.

Actually they don't. Anyone with a shred of common sense knows that WBC may claim to be Christian, but they don't espouse Christian values, anymore than Hitler espoused socialist values.


To those who are saying that this is Unconstitutional, erm, no it's not. Congress can restrict the time of the protest, as long as it's a reasonable restriction. This is reasonable:

According to "The Honoring America’s Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012," which is now headed to President Barack Obama's desk, demonstrators will no longer be allowed to picket military funerals two hours before or after a service. The bill also requires protestors to be at least 300 feet away from grieving family members.

[Seleucas]

I fail to see why military funerals should be protected ahead of the funerals of the countless other people that Westboro Baptist feels the need to picket.

No kidding. And I'm pretty sure this violates the First Amendment.

[Seleucas]

I fail to see why military funerals should be protected ahead of the funerals of the countless other people that Westboro Baptist feels the need to picket.

I'm fairly certain that if WBC start picketing other funerals, Congress won't hesitate to bitchslap them again.

They DO picket other funerals; they were just at Aurora.

[Risottia]

Thank god they did something to stop these assholes. They give Christians a pretty bad name, an even worse one than Mormons and Catholics.

Are you aware that Catholics are Christians, btw?

[Seleucas]

Because people grieving at a funeral are already suffering and they don't really need trolls increasing it. If it happened at the funeral of a close relative of mine, I'd sue and ask for damage refund. And I would also be quite likely to win.

Not in the US; Phelps v. Snyder established that WBC has the right to protest at funerals.

[Occupied Deutschland]

...Because people could get their feelings hurt?

Yes. People can be receive damage even from words, expecially when they're more vulnerable because they're grieving.

I don't deny that.

Ehm, no. False analogy. Yelling insults as a funeral, while disgusting, is still not as severe as promoting ethnical discrimination or ethnical cleansing - that's what Nazis and KKK do.

And my point was that those Nazis and the KKK are STILL allowed to promote their views of ethnic discrimination and ethnic cleansing. Yelling insults at a funeral (and, to be fair here (which is something I REALLY don't want to do often on topics relating to the WBC) I don't know if they DO yell insults or just have their bigoted stupid signs or some BS) is, as you say, not as severe as the other but the OTHER IS ALLOWED[/quote]

Because people grieving at a funeral are already suffering and they don't really need trolls increasing it. If it happened at the funeral of a close relative of mine, I'd sue and ask for damage refund. And I would also be quite likely to win.

Which, I believe, is quite within your rights. 'Emotional damages' exist for a reason, and this seems to be a textbook case. Now, even the damages won't make up for having to put up with such bigots at a hypothetical relative's funeral but it's a better method of handling this than passing more new limits and constraints on freedom of speech.

It almost bugs me more that this is a constraint that is almost specifically targeted against a much-hated fringe radical group like the WBC. It puts me in the position of almost defending them and gets everyone excited about limiting free speech JUST because how these people exercise it is unpopular.

Edit: Quote tag BS

[Wisconsin9]

Because people grieving at a funeral are already suffering and they don't really need trolls increasing it. If it happened at the funeral of a close relative of mine, I'd sue and ask for damage refund. And I would also be quite likely to win.

Not in the US; Phelps v. Snyder established that WBC has the right to protest at funerals.

They can protest funerals. As long as it's not within a certain amount of time and 300 feet of a military funeral.

[Katganistan]

They aren't silenced. They can spew their shit anywhere more than 300 feet away from the funeral, outside of the five or so hours before, during and after it.

They can go protest their little hearts out in the middle of the town square, in front of city hall, in front of Congress, etc. etc. And I agree, it should have been extended to ANY funeral.

I almost had a heart attack when I saw a mod quoting my post....
And now I say I am pacified on the subject, upon the information Kat has given me.

Hey, hey, relax. Just because I quote someone and add onto or even argue against what they've said doesn't mean anyone's about to get into trouble. Sometimes I just like to debate.

[Shofercia]

I'm fairly certain that if WBC start picketing other funerals, Congress won't hesitate to bitchslap them again.

They DO picket other funerals; they were just at Aurora.

In that case, someone should inform Congress. I really don't see why they limited it to military funerals, unless they're just doing this for political reasons during election season. But, if what you're saying is true, they shouldn't have excluded other funerals from the law.

[Ceannairceach]

I hope Obama vetoes it.

[Crumlark]

I almost had a heart attack when I saw a mod quoting my post....
And now I say I am pacified on the subject, upon the information Kat has given me.

Hey, hey, relax. Just because I quote someone and add onto or even argue against what they've said doesn't mean anyone's about to get into trouble. Sometimes I just like to debate.

Well, I am actually quieted about the subject since my complaint about them not being able to protest at all has been resolved.