FFRF atheists attack small town over iconic image

[The Holy Therns]

This may be a small point, but...

...Instantly recognizable worldwide? I've never heard of Steubenville and I've never heard of Franciscan University. Perhaps it's instantly recognizable America-wide, but allow me to doubt it's as famous as Harvard...

[Swith Witherward]

I'm a Godless heathen, but a passive one, and I always share my popcorn.

[Schwabenreich]

This may be a small point, but...

...Instantly recognizable worldwide? I've never heard of Steubenville and I've never heard of Franciscan University. Perhaps it's instantly recognizable America-wide, but allow me to doubt it's as famous as Harvard...

I didn't know either existed until this thread. Yet, I know plenty more about Harvard.

I'm a Godless heathen, but a passive one, and I always share my popcorn.

Heathen just seems to be a word applied to all the cool peeps.

[Dyakovo]

This may be a small point, but...

...Instantly recognizable worldwide? I've never heard of Steubenville and I've never heard of Franciscan University. Perhaps it's instantly recognizable America-wide, but allow me to doubt it's as famous as Harvard...

The cross is a symbol instantly recognizable worldwide.

[The Holy Therns]

This may be a small point, but...

...Instantly recognizable worldwide? I've never heard of Steubenville and I've never heard of Franciscan University. Perhaps it's instantly recognizable America-wide, but allow me to doubt it's as famous as Harvard...

The cross is a symbol instantly recognizable worldwide.

Oh that's what he meant. Fair point, then.

[Schwabenreich]

The cross is a symbol instantly recognizable worldwide.

Oh that's what he meant. Fair point, then.

Can't tell if being sarcastic.

[Galla-]

I'm not taking a side in this. I just want to point out that the "In God We Trust" motto is something that was added during a period of heightened fear (Eisenhower's presidency). It's there, in my opinion, unconstitutionally and without basis.

The pledge of allegiance was changed earlier, wasn't it? 1880s or so?

Someone from the 1890s would be doing a Hitlerite salute to the flag, and immediately point out that "Under God" is contradictory to the "indivisible" portion of the Pledge of Allegiance. Then he would beat McCarthy to near death with a cane, or challenge him to a gentlemanly duel/fist fight or something equally Victorian.

They wouldn't even understand the reasons behind it, because the Red Scare of the 1920s hadn't happened, and communism was little more than a vague German philosophy that no one who wasn't deeply affiliated with the European political scene would have much knowledge about.

So no. It was changed in the 1950s because DEM GODLESS COMMIES!

[Leepaidamba]

This is ridiculous. That's like not including the Sistine Chapel on a Florence webpage because it's 'too religious'.

FYI, the Sistine chapel is not in Florence, it's not even in Italy. I know, I've been to both.
Nevertheless I agree that an important landmark shouldn't be included just because it's religious. Now that doesn't mean I think it should be included, for that it would have to be a place used more for cultural than religious purposes, so to speak.

[Meryuma]

I'm an atheist and that's really petty. I'm not offended at all, especially since it represents a local landmark. It's not even a statement of religious bias, just that their city is known for their Catholic university.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I'm an atheist and that's really petty. I'm not offended at all, especially since it represents a local landmark. It's not even a statement of religious bias, just that their city is known for their Catholic university.

This. Its fricking stupid to complain about something like this.

[Dyakovo]

I'm an atheist and that's really petty. I'm not offended at all, especially since it represents a local landmark. It's not even a statement of religious bias, just that their city is known for their Catholic university.

This. Its fricking stupid to complain about something like this.

It is unconstitutional for crosses and religious symbols to appear on municipal seals and logos. So, no it isn't "stupid to complain bout something like this".

[The Huskar Social Union]

This. Its fricking stupid to complain about something like this.

It is unconstitutional for crosses and religious symbols to appear on municipal seals and logos. So, no it isn't "stupid to complain bout something like this".

Its not constitutuional? well i guess then if you put it that way i would understand if some people got annoyed then.

[Kingborough]

This. Its fricking stupid to complain about something like this.

It is unconstitutional for crosses and religious symbols to appear on municipal seals and logos. So, no it isn't "stupid to complain bout something like this".

I must say I'm just glad I don't live in your country, if your constitution is this problematic and bans a little town from including a chapel, which happens to be a landmark, on its logo because it has a cross.

[Schwabenreich]

It is unconstitutional for crosses and religious symbols to appear on municipal seals and logos. So, no it isn't "stupid to complain bout something like this".

I must say I'm just glad I don't live in your country, if your constitution is this problematic and bans a little town from including a chapel, which happens to be a landmark, on its logo because it has a cross.

It goes both ways. On one hand its restrictive and silly and somewhat outdated. On the other, it keeps the crazies they vote in from being too crazy.

[Tekania]

Non-issue. Town wants to make particular seal change, people petition them not to... they don't.

[Nordengrund]

I am a Christian, and I was totally okay with those Muslims wanting to build a mosque in New York as long as it was not on Ground Zero.

I am a Baptist, but I used to go to a Seventh Day Adventist school, but their denomination did not bother me, so I do not see why this Atheist wanted that icon to be removed. People often forget that we have freedom of religion, but not freedom from religion.

[Andaluciae]

It's Steubenville, guys. They included every remotely distinctive feature of a sad, dying town on the logo. That includes their bridge, the Berkeley cabin, and the only distinctive building from Franciscan. The long and short is that the religious symbol is incidental to the outline of the building, and not a violation of the establishment clause. Let Shitsburgh Jr. suffer in peace.

[Andaluciae]

This. Its fricking stupid to complain about something like this.

It is unconstitutional for crosses and religious symbols to appear on municipal seals and logos. So, no it isn't "stupid to complain bout something like this".

Except it is not a cross that was included in-and-of itself. It's an outline of a building.

It's pretty clear cut that they were not communicating religious devotion, rather, they were communicating "Hey! Franciscan University is here!". That is a legitimate use. The inclusion of the cross botonny on the Maryland flag is comparable.

[Ifreann]

Background info on the town itself:

Steubenville, OH, is insanely small and smacks of apple pie and dimples. People really do fall in love with the girl next door. The whole town cheers on the local high school football team and all games are broadcast on tv (because nothing else happens around here.) The town's actual size is a total area of 10.0 square miles. Our total population is 18,659 and that includes the 2,741 full time students at Franciscan University (the icon that the radical atheist wants removed). No one moves to Steubenville - children grow up and move away or people die of old age. The majority of the town is related to immigrants who came here prior to WWII. We have three flavors of religion here: protestant, Catholic and Jewish. You can visit with Amish people while they shop for supplies at Lowes (seriously!) Hindus, Muslims and Buddhists either don't live in the city or else have places of worship in Pittsburgh. The town is renowned for Franciscan University... their chapel's shape is iconic and recognized by a variety of organizations around the world.

Resident Atheists and Agnostics say:

We are fucking pissed off over this FFRF BS. It's been wildfire in our portion of the community, and no one has heard anyone bragging or hinting that they were the ones who lodged a complaint. We believe that the FFRF decided to make the city a place to set precedence. Our city's economy is very poor right now and they can't afford a law suit so they rolled over. We believe FFRF's claim "one of their members who lives in Steubenville was offended" to be false. We also believe it is really a direct attack on Franciscan University because they changed their health care policy due to Obamacare demands.

Whence these quotes? Googling a sentence from each only turns up this thread.

[Farnhamia]

Background info on the town itself:

Resident Atheists and Agnostics say:

Whence these quotes? Googling a sentence from each only turns up this thread.

Since Steubenville is the home town of Dean Martin, one wonders "What Would Dean Do?"

[Ifreann]

Whence these quotes? Googling a sentence from each only turns up this thread.

Since Steubenville is the home town of Dean Martin, one wonders "What Would Dean Do?"

Lament about kicks to the head or holes in his boat?

[TaQud]

Wow this is so pathetic. BTW I have been to Steubenville before

[Farnhamia]

Since Steubenville is the home town of Dean Martin, one wonders "What Would Dean Do?"

Lament about kicks to the head or holes in his boat?

Perhaps. Or have another drink.

[Zeiffelheim]

So, what is your opinion, NS? Should the FFRF be allowed to push around a small town while neglecting the fact that states have seals that incorporate Christian-themed symbols or words? Do you agree with the FFRF's tactics and meddling? If you are atheist or agnostic, would the Franciscan University image insult you?

I'm atheist, and I think the FFRF is being ridiculous. One of the biggest complaints I have (and one of the ones I most often hear) is that religion meddles. I don't mind any religion as long as they aren't trying to convert me. WELL, it works both ways people. If I were Christian I wouldn't mind atheists as long as they weren't trying to convince me.

The town chose a seal based on one of its landmarks.

If you're living there and the seal really offends you that much, you can always move elsewhere. It's not like you own the damn town, why should you be able to dictate what they put on their seal?

The FFRF has no right to go meddling in something that is none of their concern. Can people not simply keep to themselves? If you don't believe in god that doesn't mean that you have to go around shouting about it and publicly combating and denying religion wherever it arises.

Ultimately, you believe what you believe and it shouldn't make one damn bit of difference what anyone else believes. So the seal has a church on it. Grow the fuck up and get over it.

[Farnhamia]

So, what is your opinion, NS? Should the FFRF be allowed to push around a small town while neglecting the fact that states have seals that incorporate Christian-themed symbols or words? Do you agree with the FFRF's tactics and meddling? If you are atheist or agnostic, would the Franciscan University image insult you?

I'm atheist, and I think the FFRF is being ridiculous. One of the biggest complaints I have (and one of the ones I most often hear) is that religion meddles. I don't mind any religion as long as they aren't trying to convert me. WELL, it works both ways people. If I were Christian I wouldn't mind atheists as long as they weren't trying to convince me.

The town chose a seal based on one of its landmarks.

If you're living there and the seal really offends you that much, you can always move elsewhere. It's not like you own the damn town, why should you be able to dictate what they put on their seal?

The FFRF has no right to go meddling in something that is none of their concern. Can people not simply keep to themselves? If you don't believe in god that doesn't mean that you have to go around shouting about it and publicly combating and denying religion wherever it arises.

Ultimately, you believe what you believe and it shouldn't make one damn bit of difference what anyone else believes. So the seal has a church on it. Grow the fuck up and get over it.

While I agree that this is a trivial issue, I do not agree that the FFRF should just hush up and keep quiet. It's their right to speak out on issues they consider important, just as much as it's yours to disagree with them publicly.