Why "Planned Parenthood" is wrong.

[Blakk Metal]

But abortion is self-defense.

You aren't giving the fetus a higher status. You are enacting totalitarianism.

1. But self defence is viable only if the attacker is a criminal or a belligerent in a conflict, if that person is actually attacking you and if there is no other option but to kill. In the case of abortion none of these are true: the 'attacker' is not a moral agent and is incapable of the mens rea (guilty mind) necessary to commit a crime, they aren't deliberately attacking the mother but are rather simply trying to exist in the only way possible for them, and there are options other than killing to resolve the 'violation' of the mother's rights.

You seem to think that self-defense is justice. It ain't.

2. How the heck is trying to safeguard both human's rights in this case totalitarianism?

You seem to have fallen into a common trap: Believing that life itself is a right. It is not. That is an illusion and is merely a result of bodily possession.

2. Yes but if a rock falls on someone you hardly would declare it anything other than innocent in the injury since it cannot chose to fall. Thus the unborn are just as innocent of the violation of their mother's rights because they simply cannot chose to do anything in the situation.

SELF DEFENSE IS NOT JUSTICE. GET THAT ITG BULLSHIT OUT OF YOUR HEAD.

Can you find me the verse in the Bible where God says "Thou shalt not use contraception"?

"Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother."But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother.What he did was wicked in the lord's sight."

As for masturbation, I already said that you are the same sex as yourself. To achieve orgasm at your own hands shows at least some level of auto eroticism, which is homosexual.

[Grinning Dragon]

wut

You are the same gender as yourself. Therefore, auto eroticism is homosexual.

/Sigh I don't even, ugh, WTF??!??!
Do wet dreams fall into this category?

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Your denying peoples right to bodily sovereignty.

No i am trying to point out that there needs to be a balance between the mother and unborn child's rights.

And by removing the right from the mother to have an abortion, you're completely removing any rights of hers around the issue of choice, so that plainly isn't a balance.

[Ifreann]

No.

Ohhh, then this bears as interesting line of thought then in consequence..... that would mean since a transexual's mental and physical genders aren't the same, then masturbation would be okay in that case.

What if you wore a glove? Would that make you glovesexual?

[Farnhamia]

No.

Ohhh, then this bears as interesting line of thought then in consequence..... that would mean since a transexual's mental and physical genders aren't the same, then masturbation would be okay in that case.

Good point. I always remember what Woody Allen said, "Don't knock masturbation. It's sex with someone I care about very deeply."

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Ohhh, then this bears as interesting line of thought then in consequence..... that would mean since a transexual's mental and physical genders aren't the same, then masturbation would be okay in that case.

What if you wore a glove? Would that make you glovesexual?

*considers bringing sandpaper into the debate*

*thinks better of it*

[The Equine Dominion]

You are the same gender as yourself. Therefore, auto eroticism is homosexual.

Read and be enlightened.

The Vatican follows the line of the philosopher Plato. Plato said that matter was evil and that the mind, the spirit and The Good are good. Masterbation is a sin because it uses the mind, which is good to please the matter which is evil. Thus it's ignoring Jesus' teaching that minds must be pure and you must not sin even in your mind.

"For he who looks lustfully at a women has commited adultary against her,"

It's not the masterbation, it's the images in your head that are sinful.

Indeed the images in your head are sinful. But it is still sinful to masturbate, because it is homosexual.

Medical Dictionary
homosexuality ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty (hō'mə-sěk'sh&oomacr;-āl'ĭ-tē, -mō-)
n.

Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

Sexual activity with another of the same sex.

Sexual orientation to yourself is autoeroticism, which is introverted eroticism. Sexual orientation to others of the same gender is homosexuality, which is extroverted eroticism. It's not quantum physics.

Your dictionary is faulty. Homosexuality is attraction to people of your own sex. You are of your own sex. There is no distinction (or if there is, it is arbitrary) between extroverted and introverted sexuality.

[Northern Dominus]

What if you wore a glove? Would that make you glovesexual?

*considers bringing sandpaper into the debate*

*thinks better of it*

...that seems well beyond BDSM norms.

[Ifreann]

What if you wore a glove? Would that make you glovesexual?

*considers bringing sandpaper into the debate*

*thinks better of it*

There is the issue of other, more traditional....implements, too.

[Mavorpen]

Your dictionary is faulty. Homosexuality is attraction to people of your own sex. You are of your own sex. There is no distinction (or if there is, it is arbitrary) between extroverted and introverted sexuality.

So, you don't like facts.

[Tekania]

Ohhh, then this bears as interesting line of thought then in consequence..... that would mean since a transexual's mental and physical genders aren't the same, then masturbation would be okay in that case.

What if you wore a glove? Would that make you glovesexual?

That would be practicing safe sex. unless it is sparkly and white in and make hoot noises, in which case you're Jacksoning-off.

[Parchelon]

Masturbation is homosexual. Assuming, that is, that you are the same sex as yourself. The Bible stands against homosexuality.

no.

The Vatican follows the line of the philosopher Plato. Plato said that matter was evil and that the mind, the spirit and The Good are good.

Being a catholic myself I feel the need to say that I find this statement problematic. In pretty much everything I have heard from the Catholic Church matter has been deemed good, God made matter and said it was good, God was incarnated in matter. I could probably find a reference in the Catechism of the Catholic church if you wish. If memory serves properly this sounds like a gnostic approach to reality.

[Farnhamia]

*considers bringing sandpaper into the debate*

*thinks better of it*

...that seems well beyond BDSM norms.

Though it does add a new layer of meaning to saying someone "likes it rough."

[Northern Dominus]

What if you wore a glove? Would that make you glovesexual?

That would be practicing safe sex. unless it is sparkly and white in and make hoot noises, in which case you're Jacksoning-off.

I think Tek wins the thread...and the internet with that one.

...that seems well beyond BDSM norms.

Though it does add a new layer of meaning to saying someone "likes it rough."

Only if it's less than 80 grain.

[Samuraikoku]

Your dictionary is faulty.

American Medical Association (AMA),
a professional association whose membership is made up of the largest group of physicians and medical students in the United States, including practitioners in all recognized medical specialties, as well as general primary care physicians. The AMA is governed by a board of trustees and house of delegates who represent various state and local medical associations and U.S. government agencies such as the Public Health Service and medical departments of the army, navy, and air force. The AMA maintains directories of all U.S. licensed physicians (including nonmembers) in the United States, including graduates of foreign medical colleges; researches prescription and nonprescription drugs; advises congressional and state legislators regarding proposed health care laws; and publishes a variety of journals that report on scientific and socioeconomic developments in the field of medicine. See also British Medical Association, Canadian Medical Association.

http://www.ama-assn.org/

I'd trust them rather than you.

[Parchelon]

1. In the normal run of criminal justice systems courts must rule on weather someone is found guilty (beyond reasonable doubt) of a crime in order to be sentenced to jail time or whatever for a crime. Someone is either found guilty and sentenced or is declared innocent.

No they're not.... no one is "found innocent", nor "declared innocent"; they are either found guilty or acquitted ( "found not guilty").

regardless the point being in the eyes of the law you are either guilty or not.

[The Realm of God]

no.

The Vatican follows the line of the philosopher Plato. Plato said that matter was evil and that the mind, the spirit and The Good are good.

Being a catholic myself I feel the need to say that I find this statement problematic. In pretty much everything I have heard from the Catholic Church matter has been deemed good, God made matter and said it was good, God was incarnated in matter. I could probably find a reference in the Catechism of the Catholic church if you wish. If memory serves properly this sounds like a gnostic approach to reality.

It means it's a sin against the flesh. But yes you are correct. I was just giving him a differnt veiw of dogma.

However it is more Orthodox in charactor.

[Northern Dominus]

Your dictionary is faulty.

American Medical Association (AMA),
a professional association whose membership is made up of the largest group of physicians and medical students in the United States, including practitioners in all recognized medical specialties, as well as general primary care physicians. The AMA is governed by a board of trustees and house of delegates who represent various state and local medical associations and U.S. government agencies such as the Public Health Service and medical departments of the army, navy, and air force. The AMA maintains directories of all U.S. licensed physicians (including nonmembers) in the United States, including graduates of foreign medical colleges; researches prescription and nonprescription drugs; advises congressional and state legislators regarding proposed health care laws; and publishes a variety of journals that report on scientific and socioeconomic developments in the field of medicine. See also British Medical Association, Canadian Medical Association.

http://www.ama-assn.org/

I'd trust them rather than you.

But noooo they don't count, the bible isn't explicitly mentioned in there somehow.

[Mavorpen]

No they're not.... no one is "found innocent", nor "declared innocent"; they are either found guilty or acquitted ( "found not guilty").

regardless the point being in the eyes of the law you are either guilty or not.

Right, and the fetus is guilty.

[Samuraikoku]

No they're not.... no one is "found innocent", nor "declared innocent"; they are either found guilty or acquitted ( "found not guilty").

regardless the point being in the eyes of the law you are either guilty or not.

And not guilty doesn't mean innocent. It means there's no evidence to say they're guilty.

[Esternial]

4. People should have as many children as they can, and populate the Earth. Even though you might die, you wan't to have enough children to live on so that your family will continue, and not come to a end. People should be proud of haing lots of children, not ashamed of it. Besides, people can also use their eldest children to watch after the younger ones. The eldest children should receive the harshest discipline so that they can be like young parents.

Have fun feeding all of your kids with your moderate income.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Indeed the images in your head are sinful. But it is still sinful to masturbate, because it is homosexual.

Sexual orientation to yourself is autoeroticism, which is introverted eroticism. Sexual orientation to others of the same gender is homosexuality, which is extroverted eroticism. It's not quantum physics.

Your dictionary is faulty. Homosexuality is attraction to people of your own sex. You are of your own sex. There is no distinction (or if there is, it is arbitrary) between extroverted and introverted sexuality.

No, it's you that's faulty, that dictionary was compiled by people more knowledgeable than yourself.

How is the distinction between being attracted to yourself or using yourself as a sexual implement (autoeroticism) and being attracted to other people and using them as a sexual implement (homosexuality) arbitrary? I'd say it's pretty clear.

You're demonstrating "exponential bullshitting", where someone realises that their argument is built on sand and so constructs more and more progressively weaker arguments in an attempt to secure their position.

[Parchelon]

2. Yes but if a rock falls on someone you hardly would declare it anything other than innocent in the injury since it cannot chose to fall. Thus the unborn are just as innocent of the violation of their mother's rights because they simply cannot chose to do anything in the situation.

Are you admitting that a fetus is no more sentient and important than a rock?

No I am simply saying that an unborn foetus is not a fully fledged moral agent and is unconscious regardless. It can no more choose to inhabit the womb than a rock can choose to fall. As to a foetus being as important as a rock that is just hogwash.

[Zottistan]

Sexual orientation to yourself is autoeroticism, which is introverted eroticism. Sexual orientation to others of the same gender is homosexuality, which is extroverted eroticism. It's not quantum physics.

Your dictionary is faulty. Homosexuality is attraction to people of your own sex. You are of your own sex. There is no distinction (or if there is, it is arbitrary) between extroverted and introverted sexuality.

Brief summary of what just went down;
Equine Dominion: "Masturbation is homosexual."
Free Socialist Territories: *explains why masturbation isn't homosexual*
Equine Dominion: "No. Masturbation is homosexual."

[Parchelon]

No i am trying to point out that there needs to be a balance between the mother and unborn child's rights.

Unborn have no rights.

Weather or not they have rights is not what is at debate but weather or not they should.