NATION

PASSWORD

Why "Planned Parenthood" is wrong.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Dyakovo
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 83162
Founded: Nov 13, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Dyakovo » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:28 pm

Bottle wrote:
Parchelon wrote:
Its not a potential human being its an actual human being! Thats what I have been arguing for dozens of pages! If it is a human being then our governments are permitting a grave injustice.

Not really.

No born human person has the right to force me to donate my body to them, even if they need it to live.

I don't care whether a fetus is a human person or not; I still support a woman's right to end her participation in a pregnancy at any time and for any reason. Because I am pretty sure that women are human persons.

Silly Bottle... You're not a person, you're a walking, talking incubator. Didn't you get the memo?
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

User avatar
Zottistan
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14894
Founded: Nov 26, 2011
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Zottistan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:29 pm

Parchelon wrote:
Intangelon wrote:Children are no more a "miracle" or "blessing" than you eating a sandwich and hours later a turd is born from your rectum. It's a biological process, no more a miracle when it happens to humans than when it does to rats -- and the rats usually wind up better behaved.

I'm tired of this "ain't humanity neat" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes. [/Hicks]


Life itself is a very unique and rare thing, it requires just the right circumstances and represents a vast amount of information and complexity from plants to animals and even rational beings like ourselves.


Unique and rare does not necessarilly mean good. Is human rabies good? Is progeria good?

EDIT: Also, "very unique" is grammatically impossible.You can be "amlost unique", but not "very unique". Unique meaning that there is only one.
Last edited by Zottistan on Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ireland, BCL and LLM, Training Barrister, Cismale Bi Dude and Gym-Bro, Generally Boring Socdem Eurocuck

User avatar
Dyakovo
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 83162
Founded: Nov 13, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Dyakovo » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:29 pm

Bottle wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:
Which doesn't apply to a fetus since it is not a human being.

Who cares though?

Seriously, why are you guys arguing over whether a fetus is a person or not, when it doesn't matter. No born person has any of the rights that the anti-choicers are attempting to appropriate on behalf of fetuses.

Pretty much just because... I have pointed out the underlined a couple of times.
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 111674
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:29 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
Bottle wrote:Not really.

No born human person has the right to force me to donate my body to them, even if they need it to live.

I don't care whether a fetus is a human person or not; I still support a woman's right to end her participation in a pregnancy at any time and for any reason. Because I am pretty sure that women are human persons.

Silly Bottle... You're not a person, you're a walking, talking incubator. Didn't you get the memo?

I suppose her male guardian didn't think it was important to tell her.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

User avatar
Dyakovo
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 83162
Founded: Nov 13, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Dyakovo » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:31 pm

Tekania wrote:There obviously only one way to solve this abortion is murder debate.... each side should appoint a volunteer, be given a hand gun..... and whoever shoots the other dead first is the winner, unless it's the pro-lifer in which case they lose anyway.

I volunteer to take the Pro-choice side... I choose the Beretta 92F.
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

User avatar
South Estovakia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 626
Founded: May 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby South Estovakia » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:32 pm

ONE, this is all YOUR beliefs. Was the US not founded on the idea that everyone can have their own opinions and thoughts on everything. If you think its wrong, fine, whatever. But that doesn't mean everyone else has to think so too... If you think contraceptives are horrible, fine, but don't blast others for using them. Is it not the right of the individual to choose?

TWO, children are not necessarily a blessing. If you were say 25 years old, living in a small apartment, with an extremely small income, will you be able to support a child in a world where raising one can cost you thousands monthly? No.

But, this is not to say that children aren't a good thing if you can take care of them.

THREE, single mothers do not exist because they had children before marriage. The vast majority had a divorce AFTER marriage. And the contraceptives point, again, an opinion. They aren't necessarily a bad thing. Sex has become a huge part of western culture, and this won't change anytime soon.

FOUR, there is a reason why there are thousands of starving children... In third world nations, populations are skyrocketing, while they cannot produce their own food. Ever wonder why China is implementing limits on how many children people can have? The Earth is vastly overpopulated, and our food production won't be able to keep up eventually...

FIVE, really..... An excuse for laziness..... I swear....

SIX, and so this supports your main point how? Planned parenthood is killing people? What's the idea here?

User avatar
Indira
Minister
 
Posts: 3339
Founded: Feb 02, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Indira » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:32 pm

Oh damn, sorry I didn't notice how far back the last post I responded to was. Sorry guys

User avatar
Dyakovo
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 83162
Founded: Nov 13, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Dyakovo » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:32 pm

Homosexy wrote:Mkay hi
So.

1. Contraceptives are not for those without self control. That's ridiculous. Contraceptives are for people who want to have a sexually active life (nothing wrong with that!) and not get pregnant because they know they're not ready, they can't take care of the child, they probably don't want to have a kid with the guy they just met at the club, etc. Contraceptives are also really useful in preventing STD's, so actually, people who use contraceptives are smart, and are thinking about their life, and the life of a potential child, by making sure that they wait on the kids, and do what they can to prevent STD's.

2. Kids being a blessing depends on who you talk to, first of all. It is really sad that some women and men who want children can't, but there are other alternatives. There are lots of kids who are in orphanages, foster homes, etc who want loving parents. I think people who don't have their own kids and adopt are awesome.

3. lololol that's never going to happen. Sure, it's idealistic for some people to wait until marriage, but that's never going to happen to people who don't think sex is that big of a deal. People don't look at sex as making a child, they look at it as something they enjoy doing and a way to be intimate with their partner, etc.

4. Seriously? The earth is having a problem right now with being OVERpopulated. Kids are dropped into orphanages, etc. all over the world just for their gender. I think it'd be better for people to have less of their own kids and adopt instead if they want lots of children. Not that I have anything against large families. My parents had me, and my five little brothers and I love being part of a big family, but that's not for everyone. The human race is having no problem populating the earth.

5. Have you ever tried to get through college with a kid? Or multiple kids? Getting through college on your own is hard enough, and without financial aid and help from your parents/whoever is damn near impossible. To add a kid onto that? That's ridiculous. The economy, job market, and poverty rate is bad enough without introducing a kid to a life that is still developing. There'd be nothing but problems for the child and the parent. Planned parenthood isn't promoting laziness, it's promoting holding off on having a kid until you feel your life is ready and you can provide the best life you can for the child, which makes life better for everyone all around.

6. Planned parenthood isn't preventing people from having kids. That's not their goal. Their goal is to help people become parents when THEY want to. So the fact that people who have kids live longer has nothing to do with this argument on planned parenthood.

:clap:
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

User avatar
Dyakovo
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 83162
Founded: Nov 13, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Dyakovo » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:35 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:Silly Bottle... You're not a person, you're a walking, talking incubator. Didn't you get the memo?

I suppose her male guardian didn't think it was important to tell her.

Probably didn't want her getting all uppity and thinking her opinions mattered.
*nods*
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

User avatar
Intangelon
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6632
Founded: Apr 09, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Intangelon » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:35 pm

Parchelon wrote:
Intangelon wrote:Children are no more a "miracle" or "blessing" than you eating a sandwich and hours later a turd is born from your rectum. It's a biological process, no more a miracle when it happens to humans than when it does to rats -- and the rats usually wind up better behaved.

I'm tired of this "ain't humanity neat" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes. [/Hicks]


Life itself is a very unique and rare thing, it requires just the right circumstances and represents a vast amount of information and complexity from plants to animals and even rational beings like ourselves.

[citation needed]

I'm glad you think that. Sadly, that doesn't make it real or true for anyone but you.
+11,569 posts from Jolt/OMAC
Oh beautiful for pilgrim feet / Whose stern, impassioned stress / A thoroughfare for freedom beat / Across the wilderness!
America! America! / God mend thine ev’ry flaw; / Confirm thy soul in self-control / Thy liberty in law....

Lunatic Goofballs: The problem is that the invisible men in the sky don't tell you how to live your life.
Their fan clubs do.

User avatar
Parchelon
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 194
Founded: Jul 28, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Parchelon » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:37 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Parchelon wrote:I only switch to laws that I believe are actually legitimate and moral. The current laws in place are quite clear in that they state the unborn are not persons, but the issue of the debate is not what the laws say so much as are they actually right.


Do you just admitted you're cherry picking laws that you only agree with. Tell me why I should take you seriously now? Especially since you haven't addressed my post proving making abortion illegal doesn't work, nor the post proving fetuses are not human beings, nor the post proving that killing fetuses is not murder under the law (oh wait, I forgot you cherry pick laws).


If abortion was totally illegal there would be plenty of people who would disregard that law and seek to have it torn down, that exact situation occurred in the United States and Canada and elsewhere in the previous century where Pro-choice groups sought to have abortion legally available. The pro-life community (myself included) believe that legal decision was an unjust.

If something is declared illegal and continues that hardly means it shouldn't be illegal. As I said before murder has been illegal in pretty much every society in human history and yet persists today, the same goes for theft or wars of aggression, but that should not deter society from fighting injustice legally and otherwise.

If I have missed previous posts I apologize, but I fail to remember missing (much less ignoring) any posts unless there was another posts just like it that I did answer.

User avatar
Parchelon
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 194
Founded: Jul 28, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Parchelon » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:46 pm

Zottistan wrote:
Parchelon wrote:
Yes but depraved indifference to human life is something to be considered legally and if not morally. I mean we are talking about the comfort of one human being weighed against the very life of another. Yes both of their rights need to be considered, but the equation above still needs to be remembered.


The depraved indifference has nothing to do with this. Please stop looking at it legally and try to see it from a purely moral point of view. Autonomy outweighs all responsibility. If the man decides to leave the hobo die, morally (note, not "legally"), his decision stands. In the same sense, if a woman aborts a foetus, her decision is morally sound. Legally is another matter, but laws change. It was once illegal for blacks to vote. In parts of the world, it is illegal for women to go out publically without men. Laws are rarely objective, except for the most fundemental.


The morality of depraved indifference laws does at least seem somewhat reasonable to me, the disregard the home owner showed to the life of an individual in grave need is appalling. Morally I can hardly believe it would ever be acceptable to place your own comfort about the life of another person, though of course how that translates into actual law would obviously be more diplomatic.

But weather or not depraved indifference actually translates into morality as a murder would seem a fairly obvious yes to me, the home owner's inaction directly resulted in the death of an individual, though not directly intended the leaving of a man in the elements that could kill him is in my mind, murder.

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:47 pm

Parchelon wrote:If abortion was totally illegal there would be plenty of people who would disregard that law and seek to have it torn down, that exact situation occurred in the United States and Canada and elsewhere in the previous century where Pro-choice groups sought to have abortion legally available. The pro-life community (myself included) believe that legal decision was an unjust.

Alright.
Parchelon wrote:If something is declared illegal and continues that hardly means it shouldn't be illegal. As I said before murder has been illegal in pretty much every society in human history and yet persists today, the same goes for theft or wars of aggression, but that should not deter society from fighting injustice legally and otherwise.

Oh dear gods. :palm: Of course murder has been illegal in societies that have laws, because murder is an unlawful killing.

Now, I'm utterly sick of you. You've used this same bullshit argument that, "Oh, well making something illegal doesn't work all the time." Did you not read ANYTHING I posted? I'll post it again, and I will once again emphasize the important parts.

Wikipedia wrote:To enforce the decree, society was strictly controlled. Motherhood was described as "the meaning of women's lives" and praised in sex education courses and women's magazines, and various written materials were distributed detailing information on prenatal and child care, the benefits of children, ways to ensure marital harmony, and the consequences of abortion.[5] Contraceptives disappeared from the shelves and were soon only available to educated urban women with access to the black market, many of them with Hungarian roots. [5] In 1986, any woman working for or attending a state institution was forced to undergo at least annual gynecological exams to ensure a satisfying level of reproductive health as well as detect pregnancy, which were followed until birth.[5] Women with histories of abortion were watched particularly carefully. [5]

Medical practitioners were also expected to follow stringent policies and were held partially responsible for the national birthrate. If they were caught breaking any aspect of the abortion law, they were to be incarcerated, though some prosecutors were paid off in exchange for a lesser sentence.[5] Each administrative region had a Disciplinary Board for Health Personnel, which disciplined all law-breaking health practitioners and on occasion had show trials to make examples of people. Sometimes, however, punishments were lessened for cooperation. [5] Despite the professional risks involved, many doctors helped women determined to have abortions, recognizing that if they did not, she would turn to a more dangerous, life-threatening route. This was done by falsely diagnosing them with an illness that qualified them for an abortion, such as diabetes or hepatitis, or prescribing them drugs that were known to counter-induce pregnancy, such as chemotherapy or antimalarial drugs.[5] When a physician did not want to help or could not be bribed to perform an abortion, however, women went to less experienced abortionists or used old remedies.[5]

From 1979 to 1988, the number of abortions increased, save for a decline in 1984-1985.[5] Despite this, many unwanted children were born, as their parents could scarcely afford to care for the children they already had, and were subsequently abandoned in hospitals or orphanages. Some of these children were purposely given AIDS-infected transfusions in orphanages; others were trafficked internationally through adoption.[5] Those born in this period, especially between 1966 and 1972, are nicknamed the decreţei (singular decreţel), a word with a negative nuance due to the perceived mental and physical damage due to the risky pregnancies and failed illegal abortions.[8]


Making abortion illegal not only does not work, it actually makes things significantly worse. If this isn't enough to deter fighting against an imaginary moral dilemma, I don't know what will.

Parchelon wrote:If I have missed previous posts I apologize, but I fail to remember missing (much less ignoring) any posts unless there was another posts just like it that I did answer.

For starters:

Mavorpen wrote:
Nidaria wrote:4. I have provided points as to why unborn children are human beings, but you have not provided any as to why they are not.



human being Pronunciation: /hjuːmənˈbiːɪŋ/
Definition of human being
noun
a man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance.


man Pronunciation: /man/
Definition of man
noun (plural men /mɛn/)
1an adult human male:


woman Pronunciation: /ˈwʊmən/
Definition of woman
noun (plural women /ˈwɪmɪn/)
an adult human female:
a jury of seven women and five men


Wikipedia wrote:Biologically, a child (plural: children) is generally a human between the stages of birth and puberty.
Last edited by Mavorpen on Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
Parchelon
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 194
Founded: Jul 28, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Parchelon » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:47 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Parchelon wrote:
Life itself is a very unique and rare thing, it requires just the right circumstances and represents a vast amount of information and complexity from plants to animals and even rational beings like ourselves.


>Implying that only humans are rational beings.
>Also claims to be rational despite avoiding posts proving him wrong.

Yeah, okay.


Human beings have the ability to reason, and I addressed your second point in a post just before this

User avatar
Katganistan
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 35923
Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Katganistan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:48 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Katganistan wrote:Yup, and a fetus is not a person yet. There is a difference between a human being and human tissue.


Ah good, I'm not completely losing my mind. I'm on NSG so I must be partially crazy.

So...is a baby that is still partially in the birth canal a half a person :p ?

Don't be ridiculous. How about, "a fetus which cannot survive on its own (that is, before week 28 of pregnancy) is not a person.
You know, the legal definition.

User avatar
Katganistan
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 35923
Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Katganistan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:51 pm

Ajzland wrote:Planned Parenthood would not have any business if they would promote abstinence in till marriage. And I guess all those for abortions are for killing unborn babies.Indisputable Medical Evidence - the Unborn baby is a Human Being


It is illogical to argue that a child is protected from abuse through abortion since abortion is the most horrific form of child abuse.

It does promote abstinence, as well perform necessary sexual health exams, educate women on their choices regarding types of birth control, educate women on their options when they are pregnant (keep, put up for adoption, abort), provide prenatal care, etc. etc. etc.

Why the obsession about the one thing you DON'T like?

User avatar
Tekania
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21669
Founded: May 26, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tekania » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:53 pm

Katganistan wrote:
Ajzland wrote:Planned Parenthood would not have any business if they would promote abstinence in till marriage. And I guess all those for abortions are for killing unborn babies.Indisputable Medical Evidence - the Unborn baby is a Human Being


It is illogical to argue that a child is protected from abuse through abortion since abortion is the most horrific form of child abuse.

It does promote abstinence, as well perform necessary sexual health exams, educate women on their choices regarding types of birth control, educate women on their options when they are pregnant (keep, put up for adoption, abort), provide prenatal care, etc. etc. etc.

Why the obsession about the one thing you DON'T like?


Because it gives options.... and people shouldn't have options.... especially women.
Such heroic nonsense!

User avatar
AiliailiA
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27722
Founded: Jul 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby AiliailiA » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:53 pm

Parchelon wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:
>Implying that only humans are rational beings.
>Also claims to be rational despite avoiding posts proving him wrong.

Yeah, okay.


Human beings have the ability to reason


Yet you say that unborn fetuses of any age are human beings.

Surely you must qualify this later statement to "SOME human beings have the ability to reason" ?
My name is voiced AIL-EE-AIL-EE-AH. My time zone: UTC.

Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
Ethel mermania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:
DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
: eugenics :
What are the colons meant to convey here?
In my experience Colons usually convey shit

NSG junkie. Getting good shit for free, why would I give it up?

User avatar
Parchelon
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 194
Founded: Jul 28, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Parchelon » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:55 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
Parchelon wrote:
Why should they not have rights?1 We are talking about human beings2 at a stage of development every human being goes through in its natural growth to adulthood, to assume they are not persons is in itself a leep.

1: Because they aren't people.
2: No, we're not.


Edit: Fuck, left out a bit there...


you keep simply ignoring my arguments, prove to me that the unborn don't have human DNA, don't have human parents, don't develop into adult humans and you might have something on point two.

Definition of a person:
Definition of person (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/person)
noun (plural people or persons)
1a human being regarded as an individual:
the porter was the last person to see her prior to her disappearance
she is a person of astonishing energy
(in legal or formal contexts) an unspecified individual:
each of the persons using unlawful violence is guilty of riot
the entrance fee is £2.00 per person
[with modifier] an individual characterized by a preference or liking for a specified thing:
she’s not a cat person
a character in a play or story:
his previous roles in the person of a fallible cop
an individual’s body:
I would have publicity photographs on my person at all times
dated (especially in legal contexts) used euphemistically to refer to a man’s genitals.
2 Grammar a category used in the classification of pronouns, possessive determiners, and verb forms, according to whether they indicate the speaker
(first person)
, the addressee
(second person)
, or a third party
(third person)

and another one http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/person


According to both of these definitions a person is a human individual, that is exactly what the unborn are, human, and individuals, in other words persons.

User avatar
Homosexy
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7018
Founded: Apr 18, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Homosexy » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:56 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
Homosexy wrote:Mkay hi
So.

1. Contraceptives are not for those without self control. That's ridiculous. Contraceptives are for people who want to have a sexually active life (nothing wrong with that!) and not get pregnant because they know they're not ready, they can't take care of the child, they probably don't want to have a kid with the guy they just met at the club, etc. Contraceptives are also really useful in preventing STD's, so actually, people who use contraceptives are smart, and are thinking about their life, and the life of a potential child, by making sure that they wait on the kids, and do what they can to prevent STD's.

2. Kids being a blessing depends on who you talk to, first of all. It is really sad that some women and men who want children can't, but there are other alternatives. There are lots of kids who are in orphanages, foster homes, etc who want loving parents. I think people who don't have their own kids and adopt are awesome.

3. lololol that's never going to happen. Sure, it's idealistic for some people to wait until marriage, but that's never going to happen to people who don't think sex is that big of a deal. People don't look at sex as making a child, they look at it as something they enjoy doing and a way to be intimate with their partner, etc.

4. Seriously? The earth is having a problem right now with being OVERpopulated. Kids are dropped into orphanages, etc. all over the world just for their gender. I think it'd be better for people to have less of their own kids and adopt instead if they want lots of children. Not that I have anything against large families. My parents had me, and my five little brothers and I love being part of a big family, but that's not for everyone. The human race is having no problem populating the earth.

5. Have you ever tried to get through college with a kid? Or multiple kids? Getting through college on your own is hard enough, and without financial aid and help from your parents/whoever is damn near impossible. To add a kid onto that? That's ridiculous. The economy, job market, and poverty rate is bad enough without introducing a kid to a life that is still developing. There'd be nothing but problems for the child and the parent. Planned parenthood isn't promoting laziness, it's promoting holding off on having a kid until you feel your life is ready and you can provide the best life you can for the child, which makes life better for everyone all around.

6. Planned parenthood isn't preventing people from having kids. That's not their goal. Their goal is to help people become parents when THEY want to. So the fact that people who have kids live longer has nothing to do with this argument on planned parenthood.

:clap:

Yay logic!
:)
Hii!! My name is Shellby. Yes, I am a girl. Yes, that is me in my flag. :)
There's only us. There's only this. Forget regret, or life is yours to miss. No other road, no other way. No day but today.
Love and expression, not hate and oppression!!~


User avatar
Individuality-ness
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37712
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Individuality-ness » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:57 pm

Parchelon wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:1: Because they aren't people.
2: No, we're not.


Edit: Fuck, left out a bit there...


you keep simply ignoring my arguments, prove to me that the unborn don't have human DNA, don't have human parents, don't develop into adult humans and you might have something on point two.

Definition of a person:
Definition of person (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/person)
noun (plural people or persons)
1a human being regarded as an individual:
the porter was the last person to see her prior to her disappearance
she is a person of astonishing energy
(in legal or formal contexts) an unspecified individual:
each of the persons using unlawful violence is guilty of riot
the entrance fee is £2.00 per person
[with modifier] an individual characterized by a preference or liking for a specified thing:
she’s not a cat person
a character in a play or story:
his previous roles in the person of a fallible cop
an individual’s body:
I would have publicity photographs on my person at all times
dated (especially in legal contexts) used euphemistically to refer to a man’s genitals.
2 Grammar a category used in the classification of pronouns, possessive determiners, and verb forms, according to whether they indicate the speaker
(first person)
, the addressee
(second person)
, or a third party
(third person)

and another one http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/person


According to both of these definitions a person is a human individual, that is exactly what the unborn are, human, and individuals, in other words persons.

So if I were to hand you human flesh in the shape of a fetus, but without a brain, working organs, or whatnot, would that still be a human being?
"I should have listened to her, so hard to keep control. We kept on eating but our bloated bellies still not full."
Poetry Thread | How to Not Rape | Aspergers v. Assburgers | You Might be an Altie If... | Factbook/Extension

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:57 pm

Parchelon wrote:you keep simply ignoring my arguments, prove to me that the unborn don't have human DNA, don't have human parents, don't develop into adult humans and you might have something on point two.

Definition of a person:
Definition of person (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/person)
noun (plural people or persons)
1a human being regarded as an individual:
the porter was the last person to see her prior to her disappearance
she is a person of astonishing energy
(in legal or formal contexts) an unspecified individual:
each of the persons using unlawful violence is guilty of riot
the entrance fee is £2.00 per person
[with modifier] an individual characterized by a preference or liking for a specified thing:
she’s not a cat person
a character in a play or story:
his previous roles in the person of a fallible cop
an individual’s body:
I would have publicity photographs on my person at all times
dated (especially in legal contexts) used euphemistically to refer to a man’s genitals.
2 Grammar a category used in the classification of pronouns, possessive determiners, and verb forms, according to whether they indicate the speaker
(first person)
, the addressee
(second person)
, or a third party
(third person)

and another one http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/person


According to both of these definitions a person is a human individual, that is exactly what the unborn are, human, and individuals, in other words persons.


Thank you for showing your inability to read or your ability to cherry pick.

Definition of person (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/person)
noun (plural people or persons)
1a human being regarded as an individual:
the porter was the last person to see her prior to her disappearance
she is a person of astonishing energy
(in legal or formal contexts) an unspecified individual:
each of the persons using unlawful violence is guilty of riot
the entrance fee is £2.00 per person
[with modifier] an individual characterized by a preference or liking for a specified thing:
she’s not a cat person
a character in a play or story:
his previous roles in the person of a fallible cop
an individual’s body:
I would have publicity photographs on my person at all times
dated (especially in legal contexts) used euphemistically to refer to a man’s genitals.
2 Grammar a category used in the classification of pronouns, possessive determiners, and verb forms, according to whether they indicate the speaker


A person is an individual human being. You must prove that a fetus is a human being. Thankfully I addressed this and proved it isn't.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
Blakk Metal
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6737
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Blakk Metal » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:57 pm

South Estovakia wrote:ONE, this is all YOUR beliefs. Was the US not founded on the idea that everyone can have their own opinions and thoughts on everything. If you think its wrong, fine, whatever. But that doesn't mean everyone else has to think so too... If you think contraceptives are horrible, fine, but don't blast others for using them. Is it not the right of the individual to choose?

Freedom of speech does not work that way.

User avatar
Ulvena
Minister
 
Posts: 2422
Founded: Jun 02, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Ulvena » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:58 pm

The Richard Bastion Republic wrote:Planned Parenthood is for lazy and irresponsible people. You're probably wondering "How is it lazy and irresponsible to plan when to have children?" I'll explain why...

1. If someone does not want to have children, then don't have sex. In order to truly plan your parenthood, you need self control. Contraceptives are for those without self control.

2. Children are a blessing. Some women are infertile and can't have any. Some men are impotent, and can't impregnate a woman so those who are fully capable of having biological kids should be proud of it.

3. People should always wait until marriage instead of gambling their chances with contraceptives. (condoms tear, pills are forgotten) there will also be less single mothers that way

4. People should have as many children as they can, and populate the Earth. Even though you might die, you wan't to have enough children to live on so that your family will continue, and not come to a end. People should be proud of haing lots of children, not ashamed of it. Besides, people can also use their eldest children to watch after the younger ones. The eldest children should receive the harshest discipline so that they can be like young parents.

5. People need to stop using children as an excuse for laziness! If someone has kids, he/she can still further their education or career if they WORK HARDER. Having kids is not the end of someones life, it is just a part of it, and they might need to work multiple jobs or attend classes at night, and just keep working hard. Children are no excuse for laziness.

6. People with children live longer. http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/women- ... ger-study/
http://extremelongevity.net/2011/09/28/ ... ve-longer/


0/10

1. You realize that sex isn't just for procreation anymore, right? It's a way of displaying trust and love. Or just for pleasure. And is it right to punish a young couple who just wanted to have sex for pleasure, took the proper precautions, but the contraceptive didn't work? It was a mistake by two young people. Just as I don't support jailing people for marijuana possession or under aged alcohol possession (drunk driving not included), it's not fair to the couple.

2. That's like saying I should cherish every Big Mac because kids in Africa are starving. Do you cherish your Big Mac? More importantly, have you ever refused to eat a food because it tasted like dog shit? Well a kid in Africa won't! It's not a valid point.

3. That's an opinion. Like I said, some people do it to express love and trust for each other right before marriage and others do it because both of them want to do it for pleasure. Marriage is a man made invention.

4. So...you want global starvation? Seems legit. Do you know why China had a one child policy? BECAUSE THEY'RE OVERPOPULATED. Earth, in terms of surface area, is not overpopulated. However, Earth in terms of resources and actual space to live IS limited and will become overpopulated some day.

5. The greatest influence to a child is the parent and other family members. If the parent is not around, the child has a far less of a chance of connecting and bonding with the parent.

6. Women who give birth once gets rid of many of the bad...I hate to use this word but STUFF that's inside them. However, having too many children would lead to a faster death not because of the actual child birth procedure but the stress of taking care of the child.

User avatar
AiliailiA
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27722
Founded: Jul 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby AiliailiA » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:02 pm

And if potential is equivalent to outcome, then tell me: is Socrates a rational human being?

Seems to me he's kind of dead and neither rational nor a human being. If "future potential" is how we should all be judged, then we're all ashes and dust. We will all die some day so we're worthless as human beings. Reductio ad absurdum.

Parchelon wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:1: Because they aren't people.
2: No, we're not.


Edit: Fuck, left out a bit there...


you keep simply ignoring my arguments, prove to me that the unborn don't have human DNA, don't have human parents, don't develop into adult humans and you might have something on point two.

Definition of a person:
Definition of person (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/person)
noun (plural people or persons)
1a human being regarded as an individual:
the porter was the last person to see her prior to her disappearance
she is a person of astonishing energy
(in legal or formal contexts) an unspecified individual:
each of the persons using unlawful violence is guilty of riot
the entrance fee is £2.00 per person
[with modifier] an individual characterized by a preference or liking for a specified thing:
she’s not a cat person
a character in a play or story:
his previous roles in the person of a fallible cop
an individual’s body:
I would have publicity photographs on my person at all times
dated (especially in legal contexts) used euphemistically to refer to a man’s genitals.
2 Grammar a category used in the classification of pronouns, possessive determiners, and verb forms, according to whether they indicate the speaker
(first person)
, the addressee
(second person)
, or a third party
(third person)

and another one http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/person


According to both of these definitions a person is a human individual, that is exactly what the unborn are, human, and individuals, in other words persons.


Now look up "individual".
My name is voiced AIL-EE-AIL-EE-AH. My time zone: UTC.

Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
Ethel mermania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:
DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
: eugenics :
What are the colons meant to convey here?
In my experience Colons usually convey shit

NSG junkie. Getting good shit for free, why would I give it up?

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Arval Va, Equai, Imperiul romanum, Innovative Ideas, Kenowa, Rary, Senkaku, South Africa3, Stellar Colonies

Advertisement

Remove ads