Govt is corrupt, so why do liberals want bigger govt !?!?

[Vrakon]

Your HDI index is seriously flawed because it cites life expectancy

how so?

the USA has a far lower life expectancy rating ---not because of lower standards of living --- it is the opposite.

Americans die far more frequently because of car accidents and ailments of affluence like heart disease and stroke than other Western nations.

Hence we have a lower life expectancy, and the index does not take into account cultural behaviors.

IN the absence of this factor --- AMericans are far more healthier and live longer than any other people's

AND......

regarding your lame argument that nominal GDP per capita is a more accurate assessment of standards of living, the following:

Comparisons of national wealth are also frequently made on the basis of nominal GDP, which does not reflect differences in the cost of living in different countries (See List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita). Using a PPP basis is arguably more useful when comparing generalized differences in living standards on the whole between nations because PPP takes into account the relative cost of living and the inflation rates of the countries, rather than using just exchange rates which may distort the real differences in income.

and good luck challenging this -- it came from the very source that your cited to support nominal gdp --- wiki.

enjoy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... per_capita

You were the one who tried to say that gdp/c is a sign of well-being not me.
And people die younger in the USA because of there terrible health care, not because their rich, otherwise countries like swaziland would be at the top of the world's life expectancy not the bottom

[Vrakon]

you seem like your interested and you obviously take in interest in geopoltics, economics, et al ---- however, whoever has been teaching you is wrong.

try reading some conservative or libertarian stuff to balance the nonsense that youve been getting from your professors, pop culture, uncle, or newspaper.
Don't assume i don't read balanced info, the main 2 people I discuss politics with are
1. a pro Ron Paul libertarian
2. an anti-palestinian Israeli settler
I would recommend reading a book called "how capitalism saved AMerica" by dilorenzo

quick read concise.

note that I hardly agree with this anarchist -- however, he doesnt pollute the book with anarchist crap --- he saves that for other lectures and writings.

[The Black Forrest]

er.

I would recommend reading a book called "how capitalism saved AMerica" by dilorenzo

quick read concise.

note that I hardly agree with this anarchist -- however, he doesnt pollute the book with anarchist crap --- he saves that for other lectures and writings.

I read one if his long rabid rants about Lincoln. He tends to make me go when I read his stuff.

He must have had an involved editor......

[United Marxist Nations]

I don't think the OP understands fundamentals of coersion. It is the corporations that bribe the politicians. Even if there wasn't a government, the corporations would find a way to control; it would just mean they have to do it themselves. And quit saying you 'debunked' what we are saying, you havn't 'debunked' shit.

[Socialdemokraterne]

I demonstrated to the OP with no fewer than three metrics that corruption levels in countries such as Finland, Norway, Denmark, and Sweden are very low in spite of their extensive welfare systems (read: "big" government). The OP proceeded to start babbling on about GDP per capita differences instead of addressing the original issue of corruption. I believe that means that I kicked the OP's ass on that front.

Now, for the GDP per capita thing. It is not proper to take a given GDP per capita figure and regard that as a direct measurement of the standard of living in a given country. That is not, repeat, NOT what GDP per capita is measuring. GDP per capita is not a measurement of the standard of living, and it is not a measure of peoples' incomes.

It is simply a standard that we use to approximate the changes in the standard of living in a given country, and we do so by examining the CHANGES in GDP per capita, not looking at two countries' GDP per capita in a given quarter or a given year and then saying "Aha! This country has a higher GDP per capita and so their citizens are better off!" If a country experiences an upward trend in its GDP per capita figures, it is reasonable to approximate that the standard of living is increasing. Likewise in the opposite direction if the figures are falling. THAT is how you're supposed to use those figures. They are not direct, absolute measurements of the standard of living, they are measurements which by proxy can indicate which direction the standard of living is shifting.

Also recognize that GDP per capita is but one of a host of measurements which must collectively be used to strongly approximate the standard of living and quality of life in a given country. You also have to account for factors such as income inequality, poverty rates, and education levels. An upward trend in GDP per capita is suggestive of an improving standard of living, but accounting for these other factors provides a clearer picture of what that standard of living and quality of life actually look like.

TL;DR Version:
Comparing countries: you're doing it wrong.

*moans, shuffles away*

[Tovakestan]

There is no point in trying to say something Conservative in a NS forum without getting the standard blame America first, pro Marx/Communism/athiest/socialism/etc. bull. But before i go, Nobama, NRA ftw, Iraq=mission acomplished, no abortion, no gays, capitalism ftw, and Romney 2012

[Buckleystan]

There is no point in trying to say something Conservative in a NS forum without getting the standard blame America first, pro Marx/Communism/athiest/socialism/etc. bull. But before i go, Nobama, NRA ftw, Iraq=mission acomplished, no abortion, no gays, capitalism ftw, and Romney 2012

Quit being such a defeatist and help me do something about it!

[The Steel Magnolia]

Oh you think NSG is all left wing. That's so cute!

We're not. We've plenty of right wing posters on here, and plenty of capitalists, theists, anarchists, and everyone else of all different political stripes.

The thing is, we actually expect people to DEFEND their opinions and positions. Shockingly, bigotry is rather hard to defend, as are rejections of basic economics.

So do so.

[Mosasauria]

There is no point in trying to say something Conservative in a NS forum without getting the standard blame America first, pro Marx/Communism/athiest/socialism/etc. bull. But before i go, Nobama, NRA ftw, Iraq=mission acomplished, no abortion, no gays, capitalism ftw, and Romney 2012

Oh hey, look, a troll!

[Mosasauria]

Oh you think NSG is all left wing. That's so cute!

We're not. We've plenty of right wing posters on here, and plenty of capitalists, theists, anarchists, and everyone else of all different political stripes.

The thing is, we actually expect people to DEFEND their opinions and positions. Shockingly, bigotry is rather hard to defend, as are rejections of basic economics.

So do so.

Even more shockingly, the resident right wing posters of NSG use logic, reason, and evidence. I have a hard time debating them myself.

[Norstal]

There is no point in trying to say something Conservative in a NS forum without getting the standard blame America first, pro Marx/Communism/athiest/socialism/etc. bull. But before i go, Nobama, NRA ftw, Iraq=mission acomplished, no abortion, no gays, capitalism ftw, and Romney 2012

Oh hey, look, a troll!

Caninope is the only conservative in this forum. Seriously.

[Mosasauria]

Oh hey, look, a troll!

Caninope is the only conservative in this forum. Seriously.

Really?
I need to refresh my definition of conservative then...

[The Steel Magnolia]

Oh you think NSG is all left wing. That's so cute!

We're not. We've plenty of right wing posters on here, and plenty of capitalists, theists, anarchists, and everyone else of all different political stripes.

The thing is, we actually expect people to DEFEND their opinions and positions. Shockingly, bigotry is rather hard to defend, as are rejections of basic economics.

So do so.

Even more shockingly, the resident right wing posters of NSG use logic, reason, and evidence. I have a hard time debating them myself.

Exactly, thank you.

I don't (well, I do, but still) care whether or not someone's right wing if they actually want to try and back their shit up.

You haven't.

[Norstal]

Caninope is the only conservative in this forum. Seriously.

Really?
I need to refresh my definition of conservative then...

It was more of a joke.

Which other conservatives are you thinking of?

[Mosasauria]

Really?
I need to refresh my definition of conservative then...

It was more of a joke.

Which other conservatives are you thinking of?

Let's see...
Wamitoria holds economically conservative ideals...
There's that Secruss guy.
And there's a few more that I can't remember the name of...

Either they're good, or I just really suck at debating online. Hell, I have a hard time against that Mongolian Ikhanate guy sometimes...

[Enadail]

You mean where the government pays private industry to develop all its weapons and vehicles? And how its actually these businesses that control the government by being those few groups that can produce these supplies, thus making the government simply an employer/consumer of a private industry?

The government doesn't make most of its own stuff or magically get it... private industry does all that. Private industry determines what military the government has...

Strawman.

I've considered what I wrote pretty hard... can someone explain to me how in the world it's a strawman? AuSable went on about how the government runs everything and that the private industries don't have control over the military industrial complex... and I argued how that's not true? Am I missing something here...


Also, I see AuSable has ignored my commentary on free markets... I guess by his logic, that means I win?

[Divair]

There is no point in trying to say something Conservative in a NS forum without getting the standard blame America first, pro Marx/Communism/athiest/socialism/etc. bull. But before i go, Nobama, NRA ftw, Iraq=mission acomplished, no abortion, no gays, capitalism ftw, and Romney 2012

You know this just makes your credibility seem even worse, right?

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

There is no point in trying to say something Conservative in a NS forum without getting the standard blame America first, pro Marx/Communism/athiest/socialism/etc. bull. But before i go, Nobama, NRA ftw, Iraq=mission acomplished, no abortion, no gays, capitalism ftw, and Romney 2012

[DesAnges]

There is no point in trying to say something Conservative in a NS forum without getting the standard blame America first, pro Marx/Communism/athiest/socialism/etc. bull. But before i go, Nobama, NRA ftw, Iraq=mission acomplished, no abortion, no gays, capitalism ftw, and Romney 2012

Thanks for this.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Thanks for this.

I have posted elsewhere in this thread, but that was the image that best summed up my reaction.

[Aethyopea]

It was more of a joke.

Which other conservatives are you thinking of?

Let's see...
Wamitoria holds economically conservative ideals...
There's that Secruss guy.
And there's a few more that I can't remember the name of...

Either they're good, or I just really suck at debating online. Hell, I have a hard time against that Mongolian Ikhanate guy sometimes...

There's also Occupied Deutschland and Capitalist Running Dogs. And doesn't Sibirsky still come over here once in a while?

[DesAnges]

Thanks for this.

I have posted elsewhere in this thread, but that was the image that best summed up my reaction.

No I was being sincere. That image will come in handy in future.

[AuSable River]

Your HDI index is seriously flawed because it cites life expectancy

how so?

the USA has a far lower life expectancy rating ---not because of lower standards of living --- it is the opposite.

Americans die far more frequently because of car accidents and ailments of affluence like heart disease and stroke than other Western nations.

Hence we have a lower life expectancy, and the index does not take into account cultural behaviors.

IN the absence of this factor --- AMericans are far more healthier and live longer than any other people's

AND......

regarding your lame argument that nominal GDP per capita is a more accurate assessment of standards of living, the following:



and good luck challenging this -- it came from the very source that your cited to support nominal gdp --- wiki.

enjoy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... per_capita

You were the one who tried to say that gdp/c is a sign of well-being not me.
And people die younger in the USA because of there terrible health care, not because their rich, otherwise countries like swaziland would be at the top of the world's life expectancy not the bottom

there is a big difference dude, please try to read the entire posts instead of shooting from the hip

my gdp per capita was based on PPP or purchasing power parity --- the rebut was a less reliable and valid nominal GDP based they didnt take into account purchasing power due to monetary differences and economic scarcity.

And NO, people die younger in the USA because of car accidents, homicide, having too much junk food, and having access to too much prescription drugs, not too little.

hopefully, you can take this information and start thinking with more independence and objectivity than what you have been told by Leftist academics, pop culture, and the leftwing mass media

Source:

http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.c ... nited.html

[AuSable River]

Both parties want bigger government. Republicans claim to support small government but do nothing to reduce it. Democrats directly support big government in all fields. Only libertarians actually try to shrink the government. Not only does the government sponge off the wealth of the nation, but it imposes inefficient and authoritarian regulations. The federal government should be cut down to the minimum, and ruling left to state and local governments. Most liberals support big government because they think that more regulations will minimize corruption. What they do not realize is that if the corporations already control the government, only policies favorable to them will be passed, often to the expense of the people.

And the alternative are large companies taking over the state much easier because now they don't need to pay more money to get majority votes and shit. Great idea.

dude, you and other big government types have never explained the mechanism of how these boogeyman corporations 'take' over the nation in the absence of government.

the only lame response I get to describe this mechanism is that they just do.

I dont want the end result of your fantasyland view ---- I want the process.

IN sum, your not thinking clearly, you just make things up as you go based on a flimsy leftwing framework that you were told existed by your teachers, pop culture, and the media.

start thinking for yourself

and for the 10th time I challenge you to describe the PROCESS of how a corporation gains power over the rest of society.

When/if you do this --- I can easily debunk and expose this nonsense. but apparently those on the Left cant even begin to intelligently and rationally describe the process --- they just say 'it happens" ??!!!

[Miss Defied]

If big goverment is the problem, why is it only the liberals fault?