Govt is corrupt, so why do liberals want bigger govt !?!?

[Lessnt]

The free market is more corrupt and more coercive.

And its still more efficient under many circumstances.
That efficiency is what makes a free market better.

[AuSable River]

so much for your private sector snake oil fallacy:

http://www.naturalnews.com/035641_corru ... harma.html

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... miflu.aspx

http://greenhouseneutralfoundation.org/ ... in-danger/

http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/0 ... t-the-fda/

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/ama.htm

in sum, statist are under the delusion that government is trusted and serves them ---- nothing could be further from the truth.

indeed, my goal is to inform the servile that pray on the altar of government power -- that this is a false god.

individual rights and individual responsibility in a free, voluntary, and competitive societal framework is far more preferable and beneficial to societal health and well being.

good night, my shift is over.

One of my problems with this is that the very thing that corrupts the government is the very thing you trust more than the government.

strawman

I dont trust government at all dude.

without government, corrupt corporations die on the vine.

for example, how in the heck is an inefficient, corrupt, and wasteful firm going to survive screwing the customer or engaging in fraud or criminal/civil negligence?

only within anarchist societies can these firms in the defense industry gain absolutist power.

but not within a constitutional federal republic or most other variations of liberal democracy.

[Wamitoria]

for example, how in the heck is an inefficient, corrupt, and wasteful firm going to survive screwing the customer or engaging in fraud or criminal/civil negligence?

Survive or be held accountable? Shoddy business practices are likely to collapse a business, but that doesn't mean the people who screwed others over will be held accountable without proper governance.

[AuSable River]

try opening a business and screwing the customer and see how far and how big you get.

Businesses get away with that shit every day!!!!!

And people still go, because they don't know any better, or they don't give a shit!

Absurd.

if businesses 'get away with shit' by your illogical definition

Then why do so many (99%) ultimately fail ?????


in contrast, govt has no competition and when they fail, they simply plunder more societal wealth to the lasting detriment of society.

Indeed, to remove corrupt govt it frequently takes violent and bloody revolutions

[Desu Desu Desu Desu]

What about libertarian liberals?

[Mavorpen]

strawman

I dont trust government at all dude.

without government, corrupt corporations die on the vine.

Source?

for example, how in the heck is an inefficient, corrupt, and wasteful firm going to survive screwing the customer or engaging in fraud or criminal/civil negligence?

Easy, by being exceptionally large and having large amounts of money. It's inevitable that they will crush anyone that tries to compete.

[AuSable River]

Probably they are just following the indoctrination that they have received from leftwing educators, pop culture, and the main stream media who are all proponents of big government.

Ok..first, do you realize how idiotic that sounded? You make it sound as though us liberals actually want bigger government. Have you even interviewed any liberals to get their own personal views, or do you just lump all liberals into this category of wanting bigger government?

If I could deprogram leftists, I would enlighten them to the fact that government is a market for corruption.

What are we now, robots?? 'Deprogram'.....sounds like a fascist tactic to me.

Not surprisingly, these same banks contributed generously to both obama and bush in their respective elections. Moreover, the these same failed bankers have figured prominently in both the bush and obama cabinets.

Got anything to back this statement up, or are you just blowing hot air?

In reality, the purpose of government isn't to promote sustainable and beneficial economic policy -- it is for self-serving politicians and their corrupt cronies in the public and private sector to 'game' the system to their benefit at the expense of productive individuals and firms in the private sector (who by definition don't need government help).

WOW!! What a damn genius you just proved to be.....I guess there must be readers here who have been living under rocks for so long they lost track of the times.

do you have a point to make instead of simply engaging in an illogical ad hominem of 'disagreeing with me, but agreeing with my assertion' ?!!

[Norstal]

for example, how in the heck is an inefficient, corrupt, and wasteful firm going to survive screwing the customer or engaging in fraud or criminal/civil negligence?

The Church of Scientology has survived despite any attempts to bring it down.

So.

[Blakk Metal]

One of my problems with this is that the very thing that corrupts the government is the very thing you trust more than the government.

strawman

I dont trust government at all dude.

without government, corrupt corporations die on the vine.

for example, how in the heck is an inefficient, corrupt, and wasteful firm going to survive screwing the customer or engaging in fraud or criminal/civil negligence?

only within anarchist societies can these firms in the defense industry gain absolutist power.

but not within a constitutional federal republic or most other variations of liberal democracy.

ANSWER THE FRIGGIN' QUESTION FOR ONCE!

[Desu Desu Desu Desu]

for example, how in the heck is an inefficient, corrupt, and wasteful firm going to survive screwing the customer or engaging in fraud or criminal/civil negligence?

The Church of Scientology has survived despite any attempts to bring it down.

So.

That's more or less because they have zombie puppets to give them $$$.

[Norstal]

The Church of Scientology has survived despite any attempts to bring it down.

So.

That's more or less because they have zombie puppets to give them $$$.

There's also prostitution, weapon sales, organ sales, Chinese medicine if you want examples of businesses that requires no zombies. I can go on and on to prove this libertarian notion that a corrupt organization or business will die in a total free market.

[Miss Defied]

That's more or less because they have zombie puppets to give them $$$.

There's also prostitution, weapon sales, organ sales, Chinese medicine if you want examples of businesses that requires no zombies. I can go on and on to prove this libertarian notion that a corrupt organization or business will die in a total free market.

strawman because irrespective of your lack of facts, logic and empirical evidence

you're inane liberal logic shows your lunacy at the hands of the corrupt government

hurr durr

[AuSable River]

for example, how in the heck is an inefficient, corrupt, and wasteful firm going to survive screwing the customer or engaging in fraud or criminal/civil negligence?

Survive or be held accountable? Shoddy business practices are likely to collapse a business, but that doesn't mean the people who screwed others over will be held accountable without proper governance.

1st -- if a company fails --- management fails -- its investment and capital is dissolved and dispensed to credits.

2nd -- if government fails --- it raises taxes and bureaucrats pay -- and politicians use this failure as an excuse that they need more power to manage the 'problem' that ironically they have made worse or created

3rd -- if government continues to fail -- the bureaucrats and polticians dont suffer any ill effects since their own money is not at risk. frequently they and their family members get lucrative jobs in the very industries that they were entrusted to oversee.

4th -- if a company fails, then management has lost reputation -- hence, they will find it significantly more difficult to get venture capital to reinvest if the failure was the result of inefficient, wasteful, or corrupt business practices.


Lastly, the free market is volutary --- government is not.

[Norstal]

There's also prostitution, weapon sales, organ sales, Chinese medicine if you want examples of businesses that requires no zombies. I can go on and on to prove this libertarian notion that a corrupt organization or business will die in a total free market.

strawman because irrespective of your lack of facts, logic and empirical evidence

you're inane liberal logic shows your lunacy at the hands of the corrupt government

hurr durr

Yes that's right, I am a statanist. I worship the state and satan. Fear me. Fear and cower before my progressive social programs. We also do weekly orgies as part of worshiping satan. But they're EVIL orgies.

[AuSable River]

That's more or less because they have zombie puppets to give them $$$.

There's also prostitution, weapon sales, organ sales, Chinese medicine if you want examples of businesses that requires no zombies. I can go on and on to prove this libertarian notion that a corrupt organization or business will die in a total free market.

these are all voluntary -- and yes many go out of business if they dont satisfy 'consumer' preferences.

in contrast, government has been responsible for more 'involuntary organ donations'in the form of political executions, tortures, and murders than any other societal entity.

the moral of the story is that you cant criticize the free market because it is not perfect ----- no human endeavor is perfect --- however, the free market is voluntary, free, and competitive whereas the government is none of these.

[AuSable River]

The Church of Scientology has survived despite any attempts to bring it down.

So.

That's more or less because they have zombie puppets to give them $$$.

the zombie puppets that donate to any church do so voluntarily.

the zombie puppets that 'donate' to government pay many orders of magnitude more in wealth, do so against their will, and the result of this dynamic is societal destruction.

the bigger govt 'religion' , the more destructive.

see north korea, cuba, zimbabwe, california, detroit, et al.

[AuSable River]

for example, how in the heck is an inefficient, corrupt, and wasteful firm going to survive screwing the customer or engaging in fraud or criminal/civil negligence?

The Church of Scientology has survived despite any attempts to bring it down.

So.

it has survived without you (or me) having to surrender a dime of our time or money --- so who made you the religious police ???

What right or sanction do you have to attack an entity that gets all of its wealth by voluntary and non-coercive means ???/

indeed, the left is the pay police, the equality police, the charity police, the thought police, et al.

they are utterly despotic and their reprehensible goal is to find ways to gain power by inserting their noses in places they are not needed or welcome.

[Wirbel]

liberals want government to earn its keep. "conservatives" don't. government gets bigger as a compromise between them. one that no one wants.
corruption is part of the same compromise, and one that conservatives seem to want. seems like the only thing conservatives want to conserve is the ways they are able to get away with corruption.

And Liberals want to create new ways to get away with corruption.

[AuSable River]

strawman

I dont trust government at all dude.

without government, corrupt corporations die on the vine.

Source?

for example, how in the heck is an inefficient, corrupt, and wasteful firm going to survive screwing the customer or engaging in fraud or criminal/civil negligence?

Easy, by being exceptionally large and having large amounts of money. It's inevitable that they will crush anyone that tries to compete.

source ??!!!

what is the source for 2+2 = 4 ???

indeed, are you aware that thousands, if not millions of free market firms fail yearly ?


again for the 20th time, explain the process whereby a firm can crush competition without satisfying consumer preferences.

until you answer this challenge --- dont bother with these inane strawman diversions.

[Wirbel]

strawman because irrespective of your lack of facts, logic and empirical evidence

you're inane liberal logic shows your lunacy at the hands of the corrupt government

hurr durr

Yes that's right, I am a statanist. I worship the state and satan. Fear me. Fear and cower before my progressive social programs. We also do weekly orgies as part of worshiping satan. But they're EVIL orgies.

[scream]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/scream] *Hides in Corner*

[AuSable River]

strawman

I dont trust government at all dude.

without government, corrupt corporations die on the vine.

for example, how in the heck is an inefficient, corrupt, and wasteful firm going to survive screwing the customer or engaging in fraud or criminal/civil negligence?

only within anarchist societies can these firms in the defense industry gain absolutist power.

but not within a constitutional federal republic or most other variations of liberal democracy.

ANSWER THE FRIGGIN' QUESTION FOR ONCE!

come down tex

I dont see a question in the preceding post.

if you have one that you want me to answer --- then take an aspirin and present it.

[Mavorpen]

source ??!!!

what is the source for 2+2 = 4 ???

http://us.metamath.org/mpegif/mmset.html

indeed, are you aware that thousands, if not millions of free market firms fail yearly ?

But not the largest ones.

again for the 20th time, explain the process whereby a firm can crush competition without satisfying consumer preferences.

Easy: buy the competition, steal their ideas (no government to enforce copyrights or patents), physically destroy their business by hiring mercenaries, and more.

until you answer this challenge --- dont bother with these inane strawman diversions.

[Wirbel]

Source?

Easy, by being exceptionally large and having large amounts of money. It's inevitable that they will crush anyone that tries to compete.

source ??!!!

what is the source for 2+2 = 4 ???

indeed, are you aware that thousands, if not millions of free market firms fail yearly ?


again for the 20th time, explain the process whereby a firm can crush competition without satisfying consumer preferences.

until you answer this challenge --- dont bother with these inane strawman diversions.

Mavorpen, how do you have an "exceptionally large" company with "large amounts of money" without pleasing any kind of customer. You've got to get up there first... And also, if you are rich, how do you stay rich if your customers hate you and don't buy anything from you?

[AuSable River]

Yes that's right, I am a statanist. I worship the state and satan. Fear me. Fear and cower before my progressive social programs. We also do weekly orgies as part of worshiping satan. But they're EVIL orgies.

[scream]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/scream] *Hides in Corner*

you scream, I laugh.

different reactions to the same problem --- the bottom line is that the statist is exposed because of the failure of their ideological beliefs.

hence, they cant engage in any substantive, logical, or empricially supported arguments.

[Mavorpen]

Mavorpen, how do you have an "exceptionally large" company with "large amounts of money" without pleasing any kind of customer. You've got to get up there first...

I've never said they do this.

And also, if you are rich, how do you stay rich if your customers hate you and don't buy anything from you?

If there's no competition, obviously.