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Govt is corrupt, so why do liberals want bigger govt !?!?

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AuSable River
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Govt is corrupt, so why do liberals want bigger govt !?!?

Postby AuSable River » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:46 pm

Who knows?

Probably they are just following the indoctrination that they have received from leftwing educators, pop culture, and the main stream media who are all proponents of big government.

If I could deprogram leftists, I would enlighten them to the fact that government is a market for corruption.

Essentially, it is a place where special interests go to get something by coercive means that they couldn't get in a free, voluntary, and competitive society.

For example, the reckless and irresponsible financial institutions that engaged in questionable business practices prior to the 2008 crisis successfully went to Washington to get bailed out by Bush, RINO republicans and virtually every democrat in Congress (including obama).

Not surprisingly, these same banks contributed generously to both obama and bush in their respective elections. Moreover, the these same failed bankers have figured prominently in both the bush and obama cabinets.

Using the 'logic' of the Left -- obama, bush, and democrats in congress were required to divert scarce resources from productive sectors of the economy to bailout the very negligent and reckless firms and individuals who helped cause the crisis or in the very least were clueless on how to mitigate its impact.

They don't really know why --just that the same fools and crooks who caused the crisis must be bailed out AND the politicians and elites in finance told them that a bail out was necessary ??!! How 'surprising' and convenient for these same elitist politicians and bankers.

In reality, the purpose of government isn't to promote sustainable and beneficial economic policy -- it is for self-serving politicians and their corrupt cronies in the public and private sector to 'game' the system to their benefit at the expense of productive individuals and firms in the private sector (who by definition don't need government help).

This is the preamble of ECO 101 for progressives.

In sum, if any liberal/progressive/leftist thinks that government is not corrupt and coercive -- then you cant proceed further and we need to resolve this impasse.

Please ask questions.
Last edited by AuSable River on Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Tubbsalot
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Postby Tubbsalot » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:48 pm

Hold on a second, I need to copy your entire post and replace all instances of "liberal" with "conservative" and similar alterations so it's obvious how stupid that post was. Gimme a moment.
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Death Metal
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Postby Death Metal » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:48 pm

The free market is more corrupt and more coercive.
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Postby Neu Leonstein » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:49 pm

AuSable River wrote:Please ask questions.

Why is it that every time I see someone using the 'don't tread on me' flag, the post next to it is silly?
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Tubbsalot
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Postby Tubbsalot » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:49 pm

Oops, nevermind, can't be bothered; I didn't anticipate that your post would be so demoralising. "If I could deprogram leftists"? I thought I was being a little harsh calling your post stupid without having read it, but if anything, I wasn't harsh enough.
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AuSable River
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Postby AuSable River » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:52 pm

Tubbsalot wrote:Hold on a second, I need to copy your entire post and replace all instances of "liberal" with "conservative" and similar alterations so it's obvious how stupid that post was. Gimme a moment.


If you actually read my post and understood it, it most definitely implies that any government actor is inherently corrupt irrespective of whether they are republican, democrat, conservative, liberal, et al.

I assume you agree with me that government is corrupt

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AuSable River
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Postby AuSable River » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:53 pm

Death Metal wrote:The free market is more corrupt and more coercive.


I see that you agree that government is corrupt --- now how is it that the free market is corrupt?

Essentially I am going to debunk you since you dont know what the free market is based on your ignorant statement.

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AuSable River
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Postby AuSable River » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:54 pm

Tubbsalot wrote:Oops, nevermind, can't be bothered; I didn't anticipate that your post would be so demoralising. "If I could deprogram leftists"? I thought I was being a little harsh calling your post stupid without having read it, but if anything, I wasn't harsh enough.



Do you have a logical, factual and empirically supported argument ?

because this last one is totally devoid of any intelligent or substantive rebut.

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Transhuman Proteus
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Postby Transhuman Proteus » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:54 pm

I am a "liberal". I was unaware I wanted a "bigger govt". Thank you for educating me.

AuSable River wrote:For example, the reckless and irresponsible financial institutions that engaged in questionable business practices prior to the 2008 crisis successfully went to Washington to get bailed out by Bush, RINO republicans and virtually every democrat in Congress (including obama).

Not surprisingly, these same banks contributed generously to both obama and bush in their respective elections. Moreover, the these same failed bankers have figured prominently in both the bush and obama cabinets.


I do like how you make try and effort to exclude conservatives so as to not have your argument, such as it is, fall to pieces (it doesn't work).

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AuSable River
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Postby AuSable River » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:55 pm

Neu Leonstein wrote:
AuSable River wrote:Please ask questions.

Why is it that every time I see someone using the 'don't tread on me' flag, the post next to it is silly?


typically your post is an ad hominem devoid of fact, logic and empirical evidence.

but that is expected.

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Zevassa
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Postby Zevassa » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:56 pm

I stopped reading once I got to the word "indoctrination" -- I don't think that conservatives know what this word actually means.

When you stop using GOP sponsored buzz-words and think for yourself, let me know and I'll give it another read.
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:57 pm

AuSable River wrote:
Death Metal wrote:The free market is more corrupt and more coercive.


I see that you agree that government is corrupt --- now how is it that the free market is corrupt?

Essentially I am going to debunk you since you dont know what the free market is based on your ignorant statement.

Go on Youtube and watch the video: Propaganda, full english version; the stuff it says about 9/11 is stupid at the end but, by in large it's a very true commentary on Western society and 'free-market' control over government.
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AuSable River
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Postby AuSable River » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:57 pm

Transhuman Proteus wrote:I am a "liberal". I was unaware I wanted a "bigger govt". Thank you for educating me.

AuSable River wrote:For example, the reckless and irresponsible financial institutions that engaged in questionable business practices prior to the 2008 crisis successfully went to Washington to get bailed out by Bush, RINO republicans and virtually every democrat in Congress (including obama).

Not surprisingly, these same banks contributed generously to both obama and bush in their respective elections. Moreover, the these same failed bankers have figured prominently in both the bush and obama cabinets.


I do like how you make try and effort to exclude conservatives so as to not have your argument, such as it is, fall to pieces (it doesn't work).



I include anyone in government -- government is a market for corruption, hence if someone labels themselves liberal, conservative, republican, democrat, et al

Are you happy now ?

can we proceed? since it is apparent that we all agree that government is corrupt irrespective of whether it is conservative or liberal.

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Wirbel
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Postby Wirbel » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:58 pm

Death Metal wrote:The free market is more corrupt and more coercive.


This has no evidence or argument. Add some evidence and some arguments.
Last edited by Wirbel on Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Revolutopia » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:58 pm

AuSable River wrote:
Neu Leonstein wrote:Why is it that every time I see someone using the 'don't tread on me' flag, the post next to it is silly?


typically your post is an ad hominem devoid of fact, logic and empirical evidence.

but that is expected.


You know posting the same thing over and over doesn't make you correct only annoying.
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Postby Natair » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:58 pm

AuSable River wrote:
Tubbsalot wrote:Hold on a second, I need to copy your entire post and replace all instances of "liberal" with "conservative" and similar alterations so it's obvious how stupid that post was. Gimme a moment.


If you actually read my post and understood it, it most definitely implies that any government actor is inherently corrupt irrespective of whether they are republican, democrat, conservative, liberal, et al.

I assume you agree with me that government is corrupt

Government is corrupt? Oh, we TOTALLY didn't already know that :clap: You get a gold star for that wonderful conclusion. I don't know how you figured that out...
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Postby Norstal » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:59 pm

Tubbsalot wrote:Oops, nevermind, can't be bothered; I didn't anticipate that your post would be so demoralising. "If I could deprogram leftists"? I thought I was being a little harsh calling your post stupid without having read it, but if anything, I wasn't harsh enough.

Funny how the people who decries the government like this tend to be more oppressive than any other governments.
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Tubbsalot
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Postby Tubbsalot » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:59 pm

AuSable River wrote:Do you have a logical, factual and empirically supported argument ?

because this last one is totally devoid of any intelligent or substantive rebut.

Why on earth would I bother expending effort debating with someone who clearly believes that liberals are all brainwashed morons? I could produce a post approved by God himself and you'd probably still just tell me I was wrong because free market hand government evil gold standard rabble rabble.
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:59 pm

AuSable River wrote:
Death Metal wrote:The free market is more corrupt and more coercive.


I see that you agree that government is corrupt --- now how is it that the free market is corrupt?

Essentially I am going to debunk you since you dont know what the free market is based on your ignorant statement.

Capitalist systems are very corrupt; the large enterprises fund political campaigns and in return the politicians do whatever the company says.
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Postby Transhuman Proteus » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:59 pm

AuSable River wrote:
Tubbsalot wrote:Oops, nevermind, can't be bothered; I didn't anticipate that your post would be so demoralising. "If I could deprogram leftists"? I thought I was being a little harsh calling your post stupid without having read it, but if anything, I wasn't harsh enough.



Do you have a logical, factual and empirically supported argument ?

because this last one is totally devoid of any intelligent or substantive rebut.


You don't seem to have provided much evidence of corruption...

AuSable River wrote:
Tubbsalot wrote:Hold on a second, I need to copy your entire post and replace all instances of "liberal" with "conservative" and similar alterations so it's obvious how stupid that post was. Gimme a moment.


If you actually read my post and understood it, it most definitely implies that any government actor is inherently corrupt irrespective of whether they are republican, democrat, conservative, liberal, et al.

I assume you agree with me that government is corrupt


So if you think government automatically corrupts any individual working in it, regardless of political leanings, why the "liberal" aspect to your... argument? Are you saying conservatives outside of the government want to change things? They talk about "small government" a lot, but rarely do anything about it.

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AuSable River
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Postby AuSable River » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:59 pm

Zevassa wrote:I stopped reading once I got to the word "indoctrination" -- I don't think that conservatives know what this word actually means.

When you stop using GOP sponsored buzz-words and think for yourself, let me know and I'll give it another read.



Denial, that is expected.

In sum, if you dont have the intellectual courage or wherewithal to challenge my assertion that government is a market for coercive corruption than

dont let the screen door hit you on the way out.

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Wirbel
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Postby Wirbel » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:01 pm

AuSable River wrote:Who knows?

Probably they are just following the indoctrination that they have received from leftwing educators, pop culture, and the main stream media who are all proponents of big government.

If I could deprogram leftists, I would enlighten them to the fact that government is a market for corruption.

Essentially, it is a place where special interests go to get something by coercive means that they couldn't get in a free, voluntary, and competitive society.

For example, the reckless and irresponsible financial institutions that engaged in questionable business practices prior to the 2008 crisis successfully went to Washington to get bailed out by Bush, RINO republicans and virtually every democrat in Congress (including obama).

Not surprisingly, these same banks contributed generously to both obama and bush in their respective elections. Moreover, the these same failed bankers have figured prominently in both the bush and obama cabinets.

Using the 'logic' of the Left -- obama, bush, and democrats in congress were required to divert scarce resources from productive sectors of the economy to bailout the very negligent and reckless firms and individuals who helped cause the crisis or in the very least were clueless on how to mitigate its impact.

They don't really know why --just that the same fools and crooks who caused the crisis must be bailed out AND the politicians and elites in finance told them that a bail out was necessary ??!! How 'surprising' and convenient for these same elitist politicians and bankers.

In reality, the purpose of government isn't to promote sustainable and beneficial economic policy -- it is for self-serving politicians and their corrupt cronies in the public and private sector to 'game' the system to their benefit at the expense of productive individuals and firms in the private sector (who by definition don't need government help).

This is the preamble of ECO 101 for progressives.

In sum, if any liberal/progressive/leftist thinks that government is not corrupt and coercive -- then you cant proceed further and we need to resolve this impasse.

Please ask questions.


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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:01 pm

Norstal wrote:
Tubbsalot wrote:Oops, nevermind, can't be bothered; I didn't anticipate that your post would be so demoralising. "If I could deprogram leftists"? I thought I was being a little harsh calling your post stupid without having read it, but if anything, I wasn't harsh enough.

Funny how the people who decries the government like this tend to be more oppressive than any other governments.

Amongst those who dislike oppression are those who like to oppress. -Napoleon Bonaparte.
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Arborlawn
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Postby Arborlawn » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:02 pm

Most conservatives are for big government.

Gay marriage should not be allowed
Why should the government dictate what a marriage is? That sir, is big government.

Restrictions need to be put in place on Abortion
Why should the government dictate what a mother does with her unborn fetus? That sir, is big government.

School prayer should be reinstated
Why should the government dictate prayer between an individual and their God, or lack thereof? That sir, is big government.

It is a matter of state's rights
You are putting the rights of the state over the rights of the people. In addition, states do not have rights, except those granted by the people. That sir, is the biggest form of government extending its own power without consent.

We are a Christian nation
So we are a theocracy? No different than those theocracies you purport to have disdain for around the world. That sir, is big government.

The list goes on.
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AuSable River
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Postby AuSable River » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:02 pm

Transhuman Proteus wrote:
AuSable River wrote:

Do you have a logical, factual and empirically supported argument ?

because this last one is totally devoid of any intelligent or substantive rebut.


You don't seem to have provided much evidence of corruption...

AuSable River wrote:
If you actually read my post and understood it, it most definitely implies that any government actor is inherently corrupt irrespective of whether they are republican, democrat, conservative, liberal, et al.

I assume you agree with me that government is corrupt


So if you think government automatically corrupts any individual working in it, regardless of political leanings, why the "liberal" aspect to your... argument? Are you saying conservatives outside of the government want to change things? They talk about "small government" a lot, but rarely do anything about it.


Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

hundreds of billions of Bailouts to failed bankers so they can give themselves raises -- you dont consider that corrupt?

indeed, every single line in the tax and regulatory code is put in there by some politician catering to some lobbyist.

Or do you think that the billions of dollars spent on lobbying does not equate to government bought and paid for by special interests ??

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