Have I no right?

[Kormanthor]

well you are statistically more likely to commit violent crime >_>

You really wanna get the shit beaten out of you dont you...

I agree that Call to Powers statement here was out of line

[New Kereptica]

Viable Person? All human life is viable, even from the point of conception.

Well, there's the abortion debate resolved.

You can just scoop them little buggers out, and they'll be fine on their own.

Problem solved.

But... that's what abortion does...

I see what you did there.

[Araraukar]

I am expressing my opinion just like them.

No, you're expressing your emotions. Try Forum 7 for that kind of stuff. We're trying (for the most part) to have a civilized debate here.

[Grave_n_idle]

Death by... busted nut?

*images I didn't need*

Thanks alot! Now I contracted those images off of you!

Oh, gawds, it's way too late to go to bed anymore... might as well stay for the continued hilarity.

Uh oh. My mental images have gone viral. There are so many ways in which that's not good.

[Takaram]

Viable Person? All human life is viable, even from the point of conception.

Well, there's the abortion debate resolved.

You can just scoop them little buggers out, and they'll be fine on their own.

Problem solved.

But... that's what abortion does...

I see what you did there.

Good job *Gives New Kereptica a cookie*

[Kormanthor]

Viable Person? All human life is viable, even from the point of conception.

Protip: Look up the word "viable."

I know what viable is UT, and its a word that should never be used to justify killing another human being.

[Ashmoria]

for abortion to be murder it would not have to be just illegal. it would require legal personhood on the part of the embryo on up.

that would be a legal, societal disaster.

What am I, in crazy town?

Did I not just state that this would require the fetus to be legally a person?

pay attention.

the POINT is that it would be a legal, societal disaster.

the rest was to make sure we are on the same page.

If what you are trying to say is, "If a fetus was a person, and if abortion then became illegal because it is murder, then I would still support abortion", it would have been nice for you to come right out and state it. If you have some other reason for responding to my question other than answering it, please clarify your purpose. Because right now, I have no idea what your point is.

my point is that if this country were to grant embryos personhood and thus outlaw all abortion (probably including the pill, the IUD, the morning after pill) it would be an unmitigated disaster.

i wouldnt need to support abortion, it would go on just as it always has with or without my support. i would support making abortion legal.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

And its implied meta-ethical question, is there a way to determine when a human entity has rights?

Yes:

dMeaning of life/dt + Meaning of life = del²*Rights - curl(Purpose)

That'll show you exactly when.

[Araraukar]

No human at any stage of development (one cell to old person) has the right to leech off another. Full stop.

Now to put it into words understandable by the ones that cry "baby murderer" at the sight of a condom...

[Grave_n_idle]

Viable Person? All human life is viable, even from the point of conception.

So, you don't have even a basic grasp of what the word "viable" means in this context.

It includes being able to exist on its own, without being supported by another organism.

If you think you could take a fertilized egg (zygote), remove it and have it survive on your own, it reveals a lot about how poorly educated your position is.

Well, technically, a zygote is capable of surviving, and dividing, for about ten days, but after that, it must implant or fail.

I'm pretty sure that spooning it onto the counter would make the ten-day-ultimatum a moot point.

[New Kereptica]

Viable Person? All human life is viable, even from the point of conception.

Protip: Look up the word "viable."

I know what viable is UT, and its a word that should never be used to justify killing another human being.

You claimed that all human life is viable. If that is the case, then the abortion of foetuses is not killing, since they are perfectly capable of surviving outside of the uterus.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

I know what viable is UT, and its a word that should never be used to justify killing another human being.

If you say that a 3-day old embryo is viable then either:

1. You don't know what viable means.

or

2. You lack even an elementary understanding of human biology.

[Araraukar]

Regardless when a mod makes a post it makes a person wonder just because they are a mod.

If you HAD read the previous pages, like told to countless times before, you'd have seen at least two moderators participating the debate with their own opinions.

[Grave_n_idle]

I know what viable is UT, and its a word that should never be used to justify killing another human being.

We're not talking about 'killing human beings'. Just abortion.

[Hiddenrun]

my point is that if this country were to grant embryos personhood and thus outlaw all abortion (probably including the pill, the IUD, the morning after pill) it would be an unmitigated disaster.

i wouldnt need to support abortion, it would go on just as it always has with or without my support. i would support making abortion legal.

Thank you. That is all I wanted. An actual answer to a question, rather than feigned innocent 'huh, I don't get it'. Some people here seem incapable of answering questions.

So you would support making abortion legal, if it were made illegal by virtue of a fetus being granted personhood. Alright. To me, that makes sense considering your current support of abortion. So your position is a moral one, not a purely legal one. I want to follow up on this, but right now, I'm exhausted from doing the equivalent of asking someone "What is 2 + 2" and hearing "orange" in reply.

[Kormanthor]

I am expressing my opinion just like them.

No, you're expressing your emotions. Try Forum 7 for that kind of stuff. We're trying (for the most part) to have a civilized debate here.

What isn't civilized about defending unborn children?

[The Rifle Brigade]

So a two minute old zygote is a viable human being, and can survive outside of it's mothers body for a prolonged time?

Sigh...YES. More examples from history:

Caesar Chavez, Chicano civil rights leader and zygote, picked grapes for 17 years without hands. Or even much in the way of differentiated cells. Like most Single Cellular Citizens, he was frequently discriminated against, even by other Latinos, who frequently called him El Microscopico Chingo De Madre.

Ron Jeremy, famous actor of stage and screen, most famous for having a 9.75 inch penis, amazing considering he was merely a fertilized cell. It was later discovered to be a surgical implant in the phospholipid bilayer of his celluar membrane. Despite having a dick that was 99.99999999984% of his total body mass, he led a full and meaningful life.

Katganistan, loved and hated moderator of nationstates general, is in fact merely a zygote. She dictates her posts to her boyfriend, in exchange for future promises of sex, or at least mitosis.

[Kormanthor]

I know what viable is UT, and its a word that should never be used to justify killing another human being.

We're not talking about 'killing human beings'. Just abortion.

Yea .... same thing

[New Kereptica]

I am expressing my opinion just like them.

No, you're expressing your emotions. Try Forum 7 for that kind of stuff. We're trying (for the most part) to have a civilized debate here.

What isn't civilized about defending unborn children?

The way you go about it.

[Kormanthor]

So a two minute old zygote is a viable human being, and can survive outside of it's mothers body for a prolonged time?

Sigh...YES. More examples from history:

Caesar Chavez, Chicano civil rights leader and zygote, picked grapes for 17 years without hands. Or even much in the way of differentiated cells. Like most Single Cellular Citizens, he was frequently discriminated against, even by other Latinos, who frequently called him El Microscopico Chingo De Madre.

Ron Jeremy, famous actor of stage and screen, most famous for having a 9.75 inch penis, amazing considering he was merely a fertilized cell. It was later discovered to be a surgical implant in the phospholipid bilayer of his celluar membrane. Despite having a dick that was 99.99999999984% of his total body mass, he led a full and meaningful life.

Katganistan, loved and hated moderator of nationstates general, is in fact merely a zygote. She dictates her posts to her boyfriend, in exchange for future promises of sex, or at least mitosis.

Not funny

[Araraukar]

These are Children, not parasites or tumors

Making these statements without support, despite their having been discussed before in this thread, is the equivalent of standing in the room with fingers in ears yelling la la la not listening.

Forget Reppy, all hail Katganistan!

Ahh, couldn't have put it better myself.

[Ryadn]

I didn't say it was okay to kill humans.

I know, I know, you get around that by defining unborn children as non-human. It's okay. I dehumanized the people I had to kill too. I understand the process well. You have to believe it, or you couldn't live with yourself.

No, you relished killing people---or at least, you relished telling everyone wild and unverifiable stories about killing people, which is frankly just as messed up.

[Ashmoria]

my point is that if this country were to grant embryos personhood and thus outlaw all abortion (probably including the pill, the IUD, the morning after pill) it would be an unmitigated disaster.

i wouldnt need to support abortion, it would go on just as it always has with or without my support. i would support making abortion legal.

Thank you. That is all I wanted. An actual answer to a question, rather than feigned innocent 'huh, I don't get it'. Some people here seem incapable of answering questions.

So you would support making abortion legal, if it were made illegal by virtue of a fetus being granted personhood. Alright. To me, that makes sense considering your current support of abortion. So your position is a moral one, not a purely legal one. I want to follow up on this, but right now, I'm exhausted from doing the equivalent of asking someone "What is 2 + 2" and hearing "orange" in reply.

i consider my position to be a practical one that has legal and moral elements to it.

and yeah, im not big on giving the answers that people expect so it can get a little confusing for them sometimes.

[Takaram]

I am expressing my opinion just like them.

No, you're expressing your emotions. Try Forum 7 for that kind of stuff. We're trying (for the most part) to have a civilized debate here.

What isn't civilized about defending unborn children?

Forcing your beliefs onto other human beings, and forcing women to accept something they never wanted.

[Dempublicents1]

I agree. Just because you were the child of a rape victim doesn't mean you don't have equal rights to someone who was not.

This is true. But those rights don't include the right to use someone else's body against her will.