Have I no right?

[North Suran]

I love how the pro-abortion crowd acts as though the fetus is some sort of criminal mastermind bent on female domination.

Ah yes, female domination; a subject you are most versed in.

[WWII History Geeks]

Wow. Some of you actually comapare fetuses to parasites and cancer.
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU

Thank you!

[Grave_n_idle]

She (or he) had a heartbeat at 8 weeks. Specialized cells and a shape at 4. At 12, you can tell it's a human. At 20, the nervous system works.I think that constitutes ALIVE.

So's a tapeworm. You'd argue if I wanted one of those out of my body?

Hey, everything's gotta live.

The counter argument would be "but, does it have to live in me?".

[Araraukar]

Woman's choice my ass. I'm a woman and I believe there should be no choice.

Okay... so you're up for being physically overpowered, sexually violated and then having to life the remainder of your life with a living, breathing reminder of that horrible event? Give us a call when that's actually happened to you, and maybe then your "I'm a woman" cry has some merit.

[Dyakovo]

Regardless, would it be okay for me to be murdered now if I had not been convicted of a crime? I think we'll all agree no. So would it have been perfectly fine to have killed me then?

You weren't alive you were nothing but a fetus

She (or he) had a heartbeat at 8 weeks. Specialized cells and a shape at 4. At 12, you can tell it's a human. At 20, the nervous system works.I think that constitutes ALIVE.

Don't waste your time. They have worked hard to dehumanize the fetus, calling it a parasite, a non-being, a collection of tissues, etc. Bringing up these things will not help as if they had to accept any of it, their dehumanization process would falter. Can't have that, it's about women's choice, damnit!

Woman's choice my ass. I'm a woman and I believe there should be no choice. It's not f***ing right to kill for comfort, no matter what you use to try and get around it. PERIOD.

So choose not to get an abortion, no skin off my nose. What gives you the right to insist that every other women must make the same choice as you?

P.S. welcome back LDSM haven't seen you around in a while...

[WWII History Geeks]

Their is no overcrowding problem, the worlds population could actually fit inside of texas.

Good, let's put all humans into Texas and see how long it takes us as a species to become endangered. I'm game for that. You?

Sounds like a helluva reality TV show if you ask me.

[Rhodmhire]

Wow. Some of you actually comapare fetuses to parasites and cancer.
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU

BOLD CAPS ALERT! BOLD CAPS ALERT!

Seriously, it's honestly not such a barbaric and idiotic comparison, as you claim with no evidence to counteract upon their perspectives and said comparisons.

[North Suran]

Viewing life as a valuable and precious thing doesn't mean you won't lose it, just by the way.

There's a difference between dropping napalm on villages of men, women and children... and removing an embryo. I'm a little disturbed if you don't see that.

But let's be honest here. We aren't just talking about embryos. We're talking about developed fetuses too. With recognizably human features. Of course, it always goes back to "embryos" when making the kinds of comparisons you have here. Makes it less heinous I suppose.

Could I have some actual argument with your self-righteous appeals to emotion?

[Hiddenrun]

Actually...no.

I do believe that he stated that eagles are an endangered species, while humans are not - an irrefutable point.

But hey, I wouldn't expect you to use any of this namby-pamby "legitimate debating" nonsense; after all, it's far easier to just throw ad hominem attacks against all those who have committed the sheer crime of going on the same thread as you.

Sorry, what is the point of stating that humans are not endangered while eagles are, if not to say that killing humans (babies) isn't as bad as killing eagles? GnI specifically stated that such an argument was a strawman. Perhaps you can make sense of the statement then? Or was it one of those unrelated "water is wet" statements?

[The Tofu Islands]

I love how the pro-abortion crowd acts as though the fetus is some sort of criminal mastermind bent on female domination.

I find it amusing how the anti-choice crowd insists on implying that pro-choicers actually want abortions to happen. And I find it amusing how they regularly completely and utterly miss the point.

[Grave_n_idle]

And alive gives it a right to take over another person's body against their will? First off, alive =/= person, but for the moment, let's pretend it does. If I am not obligated to donate my kidney, or even my blood, even if it is necessary to save your life, why should I be obliged to donate my uterus to somebody else's use, unless I want to?

I love how the pro-abortion crowd acts as though the fetus is some sort of criminal mastermind bent on female domination.

I can see you've been seperated, and it was clearly on unpleasant terms, but... do you still at least get visitation rights to 'reality'?

[Araraukar]

Being 'alive' doesn't make you a human life.

Cancers are 'alive'.

But do they have a heartbeat and organs?

Some of them do, especially if it's a case of parasitical twin. Which reminds me, how would you feel about removing one of those from the host body without which it couldn't survive?

[Dyakovo]

Regardless, would it be okay for me to be murdered now if I had not been convicted of a crime? I think we'll all agree no. So would it have been perfectly fine to have killed me then?

You weren't alive you were nothing but a fetus

She (or he) had a heartbeat at 8 weeks. Specialized cells and a shape at 4. At 12, you can tell it's a human. At 20, the nervous system works.I think that constitutes ALIVE.

Being 'alive' doesn't make you a human life.

Cancers are 'alive'.

But do they have a heartbeat and organs?

So, a human life is determined by heartbeat and organs?

Most humans have them...

So do cats, dogs, cows, etc.

[Katganistan]

I just enjoy the way some people seem to think that if they make the whole issue personal and extremely emotional it will...what? Make people feel awkward about debating it? They don't know us very well, do they?

Since (A) there is no way to know if the OP is lying or telling the truth and (B) it doesn't matter anyway because anecdotal arguments do not win debates, I dismiss the entire OP as being based on an appeal to emotion fallacy.

Oh look at me! I am going to spot the fallacy and win the game! Do I get a lollipop? Gosh I'm so smart.

Your bridge is missing you.

Ho ho ho! I'm going to barge into threads, score my magical "fallacy" points, call people trolls and win some prizes, and then chortle about how I'm so far above these silly threads. So far above them that I can't stop myself from posting in them, because I honestly have nothing better to do with my time! It helps fill the gaping void.

Warned for flamebaiting. Stop making personal attacks.

[Muravyets]

Wow. Some of you actually comapare fetuses to parasites and cancer.
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU

They suffer from a tragic affliction that causes them to see the similarities between things that function similarly in reality.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

And alive gives it a right to take over another person's body against their will? First off, alive =/= person, but for the moment, let's pretend it does. If I am not obligated to donate my kidney, or even my blood, even if it is necessary to save your life, why should I be obliged to donate my uterus to somebody else's use, unless I want to?

I love how the pro-abortion crowd acts as though the fetus is some sort of criminal mastermind bent on female domination.

Yet one of the first acts of any newborn baby is to clamp firmly onto a woman's breast. *nod*

[La Dame Sans Merci]

Regardless, would it be okay for me to be murdered now if I had not been convicted of a crime? I think we'll all agree no. So would it have been perfectly fine to have killed me then?

You weren't alive you were nothing but a fetus

She (or he) had a heartbeat at 8 weeks. Specialized cells and a shape at 4. At 12, you can tell it's a human. At 20, the nervous system works.I think that constitutes ALIVE.

Don't waste your time. They have worked hard to dehumanize the fetus, calling it a parasite, a non-being, a collection of tissues, etc. Bringing up these things will not help as if they had to accept any of it, their dehumanization process would falter. Can't have that, it's about women's choice, damnit!

Woman's choice my ass. I'm a woman and I believe there should be no choice. It's not f***ing right to kill for comfort, no matter what you use to try and get around it. PERIOD.

So choose not to get an abortion, no skin off my nose. What gives you the right to insist that every other women must make the same choice as you?

P.S. welcome back LDSM haven't seen you around in a while...

The right to know that I am right. Call it arrogance but everyone thinks it on the inside.

P.S. Haven't seen you in a while either! Although I can't seem to remember exactly who you are...

[Hiddenrun]

I didn't say it was okay to kill humans.

I know, I know, you get around that by defining unborn children as non-human. It's okay. I dehumanized the people I had to kill too. I understand the process well. You have to believe it, or you couldn't live with yourself.

Case in point.

When you're relying on Hiddenrun to substantiated your argument, you know it's pretty damn flawed.

I thought liberals were above dismissing arguments because of the person making it?

Oh wait, no I didn't actually buy that crap.

[CIB EMPIRE]

Wow. Some of you actually comapare fetuses to parasites and cancer.
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU

Thank you!

The truth is, no matter how they deny is that most of these people are 12 yr olds that have been fed those lies in the health classes at school.

[North Suran]

Actually...no.

I do believe that he stated that eagles are an endangered species, while humans are not - an irrefutable point.

But hey, I wouldn't expect you to use any of this namby-pamby "legitimate debating" nonsense; after all, it's far easier to just throw ad hominem attacks against all those who have committed the sheer crime of going on the same thread as you.

Sorry, what is the point of stating that humans are not endangered while eagles are, if not to say that killing humans (babies) isn't as bad as killing eagles? GnI specifically stated that such an argument was a strawman. Perhaps you can make sense of the statement then? Or was it one of those unrelated "water is wet" statements?

Or perhaps - and this is a long shot - he was making the obvious point in response to the claim that "Eagles were better protected than fetuses"?

But you're right; if you warp its meaning to serve your own interests, he does advocate infanticide.

[Funk4ever]

Viewing life as a valuable and precious thing doesn't mean you won't lose it, just by the way.

There's a difference between dropping napalm on villages of men, women and children... and removing an embryo. I'm a little disturbed if you don't see that.

But let's be honest here. We aren't just talking about embryos. We're talking about developed fetuses too. With recognizably human features. Of course, it always goes back to "embryos" when making the kinds of comparisons you have here. Makes it less heinous I suppose.

Could I have some actual argument with your self-righteous appeals to emotion?

He's saying that embryo's and more developed fetuses should be treated differently?

[Hiddenrun]

Am I the only person who thinks it's all bullshit? That it's all complex arguments extrapolated from appeals to emotion and instinct (on both sides)? And that in reality there is no way of determining whether governments should allow abortions or shouldn't?

Nope, you're not the only one. I don't think there is any objective rationale one way or the other.

[Grave_n_idle]

hu·man (hymn)
n.
1. A member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens.
2. A person: the extraordinary humans who explored Antarctica.
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of humans: the course of human events; the human race.
2. Having or showing those positive aspects of nature and character regarded as distinguishing humans from other animals: an act of human kindness.
3. Subject to or indicative of the weaknesses, imperfections, and fragility associated with humans: a mistake that shows he's only human; human frailty.
4. Having the form of a human.
5. Made up of humans: formed a human bridge across the ice.

Happy now? And by the way, according to this definition in the standard dictionary, a fetus is a human.

That's certainly a better definition than the 'heartbeat and organs' offering - but all you've shown is that a foetus is 'human' (which no one has denied), not that it is 'a human life'.

As I said before - cancers are human tissue - but they aren't people.

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

You've been arguing about 'rights' for something that everyone agrees is human TISSUE... you have yet to show that it has a legitimate claim on human 'rights', since we're pretty exclusive about those things. We don't give 'rights' to monkey (so just being 'alive' isn't enough), we don't give rights to corpses (so just being human tissue isn't enough)... so what's your specific argument for why an embryo gets to claim rights?

[Tunizcha]

Rights are reliant on choice. If you can distinguish between distinct choices, then you have rights. So a baby, who can choose whether or not he does something has the rights of a human being. A developing fetus who has no experiences, no memories, no choice, does not. The mother on the other hand- I know you know where I'm going with this. I would have reiterated it, but I have homework to do and films to watch.

[North Suran]

I didn't say it was okay to kill humans.

I know, I know, you get around that by defining unborn children as non-human. It's okay. I dehumanized the people I had to kill too. I understand the process well. You have to believe it, or you couldn't live with yourself.

Case in point.

When you're relying on Hiddenrun to substantiated your argument, you know it's pretty damn flawed.

I thought liberals were above dismissing arguments because of the person making it?

Oh wait, no I didn't actually buy that crap.

I don't recall "dismissing" it - and indeed, I have been responding to your 'points'.