Have I no right?

[WWII History Geeks]

That was an answer. Most humans have organs and a heartbeat, so yeah, I guess that does define human life.

So, up until the 8th week, there no argument - it's not a human life?

What about someone who is born with a faulty organ? Are they less human?

If your heart stops beating, you stop being a human life?


Your definition sucks. If we take your definition, a dog is a human life, but someone who has just had a heart attack isn't.

hu·man (hymn)
n.
1. A member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens.
2. A person: the extraordinary humans who explored Antarctica.
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of humans: the course of human events; the human race.
2. Having or showing those positive aspects of nature and character regarded as distinguishing humans from other animals: an act of human kindness.
3. Subject to or indicative of the weaknesses, imperfections, and fragility associated with humans: a mistake that shows he's only human; human frailty.
4. Having the form of a human.
5. Made up of humans: formed a human bridge across the ice.

Happy now? And by the way, according to this definition in the standard dictionary, a fetus is a human.

[Rhodmhire]

I am the child of a rape victim. Yeah, the child of the rapist and my mom. I would have been aborted if my mom would've had access to that.

Now, for all you people out there who are "pro-women's choice," have I no right to life? I could've died and you'd just assume that my life for my mother's comfort was a more than fair trade. I am very successful today and would like to know why in the United States eagle eggs are better protected than our children. I would like to know how you think it's okay to kill something that has a heartbeat, a hand, a face, and is LIVING and GROWING inside of someone? This is MURDER.

Have I no right to life?

Why is this trade considered so equal? A life and comfort are NOT EQUAL!

If you got aborted, you might have come out someone else's vagina. Maybe somebody better. God recycles.

You're one of the reasons I have the courage to get out of bed every day in the morning.

[CIB EMPIRE]

*sniThe land mass of earth is 148.94 million sq
> km. So what is the population of the human race? Estimate is currently at
> 6,525,170,264 (July 2006 est.).


> Now let us do some translations. For every 148 sq km you get 37,000 acres of
> land.


> 37,000 acre = 148 sq Km meaning that the world has about 3.68*10 to the 10th
> Acres of land. I will be using 37,000,000,000 acres for the math below. Now
> if you were to split that land up between all the people of the earth and
> gave each one a share each would get 5.67 acres of land.


> 37,000,000,000/ 6,525,170,286 = 5.67 acres per person


> That does not sound like a lot does it? Some may say "Much of the land is
> unliveable" and they are right so let look at a area where we could make it
> nearly totally liveable. The Great State of Texas. Texas has a surface area
> of 261,797 square miles.
> 1 square mile = 3,097,600 square yards = 640 acres
> 640 * 261,797 = 167,550,080 acres in Texas


> Now lets say we move all the people of the world to the state of Texas. They
> would each get only .02568 acres of land.
> 167,550,080 / 6,525,170,286 = .02568 acres per person


> That does not sound like alot. But wait how much is .02568 acres?
> 1 acre = 4,840 square yards
> 4,840 * .02568 = 124.29 square yards
> 1 square foot = 1/9 square yard
> 124.29 * 9 = 1,118.61 square feet


> Thusly if we moved every living human to Texas and the split the land amoung
> them they would each get 1,118.61 square feet. Now you may say that still
> does not sound like alot. But consider the average square footage of a
> house.p*

I smell numbers, lots of them. And math problems.

Who brought math into this?

Anyways, I suppose you bring up an interesting point, but there are probably so many problems with that "solution" if that's what you intend to call it (I'm not trying to make a point, I seriously don't know if you mean to call it a solution or not for sure) that I can't even think of off of the top of my head, mainly concerning the vast, differing mindsets of the people who would be living in that "small" area as some would picture it.

Its not a solution, its just proveing that we are not even close to being overcrowded

[North Suran]

Anyway, I'm annoyed at the sheer arrogance in believing that merely saying "fetus' don't have rights because they aren't human beings" even resembles an argument, as both rights and human beings in this case have circular definitions. Of course fetus' are human beings using actual etymologically sound definitions: human meaning part of the human species, being meaning existing.

You seem to imply that you could only be anti-abortion if you refused to recognise fetuses as humans.

I recognise that fetuses - as "potential persons" - are essentially humans as, if left undisturbed, they will eventually become humans.

However, that does not mean I am opposed to giving people the choice to abort; that would be enforcing my beliefs on someone else.

[Araraukar]

She (or he) had a heartbeat at 8 weeks. Specialized cells and a shape at 4. At 12, you can tell it's a human. At 20, the nervous system works.I think that constitutes ALIVE.

So's a tapeworm. You'd argue if I wanted one of those out of my body?

[Rhodmhire]

That was an answer. Most humans have organs and a heartbeat, so yeah, I guess that does define human life.

So, up until the 8th week, there no argument - it's not a human life?

What about someone who is born with a faulty organ? Are they less human?

If your heart stops beating, you stop being a human life?


Your definition sucks. If we take your definition, a dog is a human life, but someone who has just had a heart attack isn't.

hu·man (hymn)
n.
1. A member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens.
2. A person: the extraordinary humans who explored Antarctica.
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of humans: the course of human events; the human race.
2. Having or showing those positive aspects of nature and character regarded as distinguishing humans from other animals: an act of human kindness.
3. Subject to or indicative of the weaknesses, imperfections, and fragility associated with humans: a mistake that shows he's only human; human frailty.
4. Having the form of a human.
5. Made up of humans: formed a human bridge across the ice.

Happy now? And by the way, according to this definition in the standard dictionary, a fetus is a human.

I might be missing something, and I'm just throwing this out there, but I don't know if the definitions of "human" as in "homo sapien" and "living human life form" are the same.

Just tossing it out there for consideration.

[North Suran]

If you got aborted, you might have come out someone else's vagina. Maybe somebody better. God recycles.

You're one of the reasons I have the courage to get out of bed every day in the morning.

That and Tyra Banks.

[Hydesland]

You seem to imply that you could only be anti-abortion if you refused to recognise fetuses as humans.

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that for a very long time now, many arguments for abortion have been seriously overrated.

[WWII History Geeks]

She (or he) had a heartbeat at 8 weeks. Specialized cells and a shape at 4. At 12, you can tell it's a human. At 20, the nervous system works.I think that constitutes ALIVE.

So's a tapeworm. You'd argue if I wanted one of those out of my body?

Hey, everything's gotta live.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

I am the child of a rape victim. Yeah, the child of the rapist and my mom. I would have been aborted if my mom would've had access to that.

Now, for all you people out there who are "pro-women's choice," have I no right to life? I could've died and you'd just assume that my life for my mother's comfort was a more than fair trade. I am very successful today and would like to know why in the United States eagle eggs are better protected than our children. I would like to know how you think it's okay to kill something that has a heartbeat, a hand, a face, and is LIVING and GROWING inside of someone? This is MURDER.

Have I no right to life?

Why is this trade considered so equal? A life and comfort are NOT EQUAL!

If you got aborted, you might have come out someone else's vagina. Maybe somebody better. God recycles.

You're one of the reasons I have the courage to get out of bed every day in the morning.

Sure, blame me.

[Rhodmhire]

*sniThe land mass of earth is 148.94 million sq
> km. So what is the population of the human race? Estimate is currently at
> 6,525,170,264 (July 2006 est.).


> Now let us do some translations. For every 148 sq km you get 37,000 acres of
> land.


> 37,000 acre = 148 sq Km meaning that the world has about 3.68*10 to the 10th
> Acres of land. I will be using 37,000,000,000 acres for the math below. Now
> if you were to split that land up between all the people of the earth and
> gave each one a share each would get 5.67 acres of land.


> 37,000,000,000/ 6,525,170,286 = 5.67 acres per person


> That does not sound like a lot does it? Some may say "Much of the land is
> unliveable" and they are right so let look at a area where we could make it
> nearly totally liveable. The Great State of Texas. Texas has a surface area
> of 261,797 square miles.
> 1 square mile = 3,097,600 square yards = 640 acres
> 640 * 261,797 = 167,550,080 acres in Texas


> Now lets say we move all the people of the world to the state of Texas. They
> would each get only .02568 acres of land.
> 167,550,080 / 6,525,170,286 = .02568 acres per person


> That does not sound like alot. But wait how much is .02568 acres?
> 1 acre = 4,840 square yards
> 4,840 * .02568 = 124.29 square yards
> 1 square foot = 1/9 square yard
> 124.29 * 9 = 1,118.61 square feet


> Thusly if we moved every living human to Texas and the split the land amoung
> them they would each get 1,118.61 square feet. Now you may say that still
> does not sound like alot. But consider the average square footage of a
> house.p*

I smell numbers, lots of them. And math problems.

Who brought math into this?

Anyways, I suppose you bring up an interesting point, but there are probably so many problems with that "solution" if that's what you intend to call it (I'm not trying to make a point, I seriously don't know if you mean to call it a solution or not for sure) that I can't even think of off of the top of my head, mainly concerning the vast, differing mindsets of the people who would be living in that "small" area as some would picture it.

Its not a solution, its just proveing that we are not even close to being overcrowded

Living area is one thing, but there are things like buildings for production, recreation, entertainment, etc. that add up and contribute to our growing crowded life on Earth.

However, when it just comes down to living, you make a good point and I don't really see error in it. As a practical solution to anything, however, it's very flawed.

And thanks for clearing up that you didn't intend for it to be as such.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

I am the child of a rape victim. Yeah, the child of the rapist and my mom. I would have been aborted if my mom would've had access to that.

Now, for all you people out there who are "pro-women's choice," have I no right to life? I could've died and you'd just assume that my life for my mother's comfort was a more than fair trade. I am very successful today and would like to know why in the United States eagle eggs are better protected than our children. I would like to know how you think it's okay to kill something that has a heartbeat, a hand, a face, and is LIVING and GROWING inside of someone? This is MURDER.

Have I no right to life?

Why is this trade considered so equal? A life and comfort are NOT EQUAL!

If you got aborted, you might have come out someone else's vagina. Maybe somebody better. God recycles.

LG wins for including the words 'vagina' and 'God' in the same response.

It's what I do.

[Grave_n_idle]

hu·man (hymn)
n.
1. A member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens.
2. A person: the extraordinary humans who explored Antarctica.
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of humans: the course of human events; the human race.
2. Having or showing those positive aspects of nature and character regarded as distinguishing humans from other animals: an act of human kindness.
3. Subject to or indicative of the weaknesses, imperfections, and fragility associated with humans: a mistake that shows he's only human; human frailty.
4. Having the form of a human.
5. Made up of humans: formed a human bridge across the ice.

Happy now? And by the way, according to this definition in the standard dictionary, a fetus is a human.

That's certainly a better definition than the 'heartbeat and organs' offering - but all you've shown is that a foetus is 'human' (which no one has denied), not that it is 'a human life'.

As I said before - cancers are human tissue - but they aren't people.

[Dyakovo]

Regardless, would it be okay for me to be murdered now if I had not been convicted of a crime? I think we'll all agree no. So would it have been perfectly fine to have killed me then?

You weren't alive you were nothing but a fetus

She (or he) had a heartbeat at 8 weeks. Specialized cells and a shape at 4. At 12, you can tell it's a human. At 20, the nervous system works.I think that constitutes ALIVE.

So it is a living parasite, so what? Or do you think that an unborn child would be able to survive on its own* at 20 weeks?

*by on its own I mean outside the mothers womb, not on life support.

[Artoonia]

well you are statistically more likely to commit violent crime >_>

... Really? Statistics are just numbers.

Not to a Precog.

[North Suran]

You seem to imply that you could only be anti-abortion if you refused to recognise fetuses as humans.

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that for a very long time now, many arguments for abortion have been seriously overrated.

Overrated?

Fair enough.

[Hiddenrun]

And alive gives it a right to take over another person's body against their will? First off, alive =/= person, but for the moment, let's pretend it does. If I am not obligated to donate my kidney, or even my blood, even if it is necessary to save your life, why should I be obliged to donate my uterus to somebody else's use, unless I want to?

I love how the pro-abortion crowd acts as though the fetus is some sort of criminal mastermind bent on female domination.

[Araraukar]

Their is no overcrowding problem, the worlds population could actually fit inside of texas.

Good, let's put all humans into Texas and see how long it takes us as a species to become endangered. I'm game for that. You?

[Grave_n_idle]

I am the child of a rape victim. Yeah, the child of the rapist and my mom. I would have been aborted if my mom would've had access to that.

Now, for all you people out there who are "pro-women's choice," have I no right to life? I could've died and you'd just assume that my life for my mother's comfort was a more than fair trade. I am very successful today and would like to know why in the United States eagle eggs are better protected than our children. I would like to know how you think it's okay to kill something that has a heartbeat, a hand, a face, and is LIVING and GROWING inside of someone? This is MURDER.

Have I no right to life?

Why is this trade considered so equal? A life and comfort are NOT EQUAL!

If you got aborted, you might have come out someone else's vagina. Maybe somebody better. God recycles.

LG wins for including the words 'vagina' and 'God' in the same response.

It's what I do.

You... vagina god?

I do believe that's the first time I've ever seen 'vagina' used as a verb.

[Rhodmhire]

I am the child of a rape victim. Yeah, the child of the rapist and my mom. I would have been aborted if my mom would've had access to that.

Now, for all you people out there who are "pro-women's choice," have I no right to life? I could've died and you'd just assume that my life for my mother's comfort was a more than fair trade. I am very successful today and would like to know why in the United States eagle eggs are better protected than our children. I would like to know how you think it's okay to kill something that has a heartbeat, a hand, a face, and is LIVING and GROWING inside of someone? This is MURDER.

Have I no right to life?

Why is this trade considered so equal? A life and comfort are NOT EQUAL!

If you got aborted, you might have come out someone else's vagina. Maybe somebody better. God recycles.

You're one of the reasons I have the courage to get out of bed every day in the morning.

Sure, blame me.

It was meant to be a good thing, as I crave your light crazy sense of humor to balance my dark and also crazy sense of humor.

But sure, why not? I'm getting tired of blaming society for everything.

I mean, they deserve it, but I'll mix it up just for you.

[WWII History Geeks]

hu·man (hymn)
n.
1. A member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens.
2. A person: the extraordinary humans who explored Antarctica.
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of humans: the course of human events; the human race.
2. Having or showing those positive aspects of nature and character regarded as distinguishing humans from other animals: an act of human kindness.
3. Subject to or indicative of the weaknesses, imperfections, and fragility associated with humans: a mistake that shows he's only human; human frailty.
4. Having the form of a human.
5. Made up of humans: formed a human bridge across the ice.

Happy now? And by the way, according to this definition in the standard dictionary, a fetus is a human.

That's certainly a better definition than the 'heartbeat and organs' offering - but all you've shown is that a foetus is 'human' (which no one has denied), not that it is 'a human life'.

As I said before - cancers are human tissue - but they aren't people.

What the hell does that have to do with anything? And if I'm so wrong, then what the hell do you think is the definition of "living?"

[Chrobalta]

Their is no overcrowding problem, the worlds population could actually fit inside of texas.

Good, let's put all humans into Texas and see how long it takes us as a species to become endangered. I'm game for that. You?

Sounds like a helluva reality TV show if you ask me.

[Iceland-Thule]

Wow. Some of you actually comapare fetuses to parasites and cancer.
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU

[Hiddenrun]

Viewing life as a valuable and precious thing doesn't mean you won't lose it, just by the way.

There's a difference between dropping napalm on villages of men, women and children... and removing an embryo. I'm a little disturbed if you don't see that.

But let's be honest here. We aren't just talking about embryos. We're talking about developed fetuses too. With recognizably human features. Of course, it always goes back to "embryos" when making the kinds of comparisons you have here. Makes it less heinous I suppose.

[John Cramer]

In the first trimester of pregnancy, when most abortions take place, the fetus is just a clump of cells, no different than the mother's liver, stomach, eyes, kidneys, or any other organ you would like to think of. This removal of unwanted cells is no different than the removal of a rupturing appendix. You asked the question, "have I no right?" and the answer is, no. Before you are born you are entirely dependent on your mother for life, therefore, you have no rights. As a matter of fact, in the first trimester of your mother's pregnancy, cephalization hadn't even occurred yet, therefore, you didn't even have thoughts to know that you were alive. Do you have the right to live now? Of course, but now you are not entirely dependent on your mother for survival and you have the ability to form thoughts.