How Aurora could have been prevented

[Vault 1]

You only know the perp was wearing a costume after that happens, not before. Unless you have a time machine.

So it's bad. It's not the best self-defense situation.
Being armed and not having a target still beats being defenseless.

And if you got someone else?

I don't get someone else.
On the small chance that I do, I go to court and present my defense. You had other ideas in mind?

[Des-Bal]

I don't get someone else.
On the small chance that I do, I go to court and present my defense. You had other ideas in mind?

The problem is you just shot an innocent man in self-defense. If that situation can transpire something is fucked up.

[Norstal]

You only know the perp was wearing a costume after that happens, not before. Unless you have a time machine.

So it's bad. It's not the best self-defense situation.
Being armed and not having a target still beats being defenseless.

Unless you got someone else.

I don't get someone else.
On the small chance that I do, I go to court and present my defense. You had other ideas in mind?

Right, Lt. ITG.

My idea is to maintain the status-quo of not giving everyone a gun.

[Vault 1]

The problem is you just shot an innocent man in self-defense. If that situation can transpire something is fucked up.

Something is fucked up the moment a guy starts shooting innocent people in a theater.

There's no unfucking it up. There's only stopping the fuckup. For that, you can either rely on the guy getting bored of killing people, running out of ammo, or leave an option for someone to get him. And yes, he will stand out.

[Vault 1]

Unless you got someone else.

Superman? CreationLord? Magic Invisible Dragon?

[Des-Bal]

Something is fucked up the moment a guy starts shooting innocent people in a theater.

There's no unfucking it up. There's only stopping the fuckup. For that, you can either rely on the guy getting bored of killing people, running out of ammo, or leave an option for someone to get him. And yes, he will stand out.

The point is innocent people killing each other in self-defense isn't fixing the situation.

[Norstal]

Unless you got someone else.

Superman? CreationLord? Magic Invisible Dragon?

The fuck are you talking about? You might be shooting someone else who looks like the perp.

[Vault 1]

The point is innocent people killing each other in self-defense isn't fixing the situation.

Of course it isn't. Killing the perp (with a small chance of collateral damage) rather than waiting for him to get bored and go to sleep is. And the small risk of friendly fire far outweighs the certainty of further killings.

[Des-Bal]

Of course it isn't. Killing the perp (with a small chance of collateral damage) rather than waiting for him to get bored and go to sleep is. And the small risk of friendly fire far outweighs the certainty of further killings.

Seriously I want to see you shoot into a crowd of frantic people while blind and vomitting, you could do it for those shooting exhibitions.

[Vault 1]

The fuck are you talking about? You might be shooting someone else who looks like the perp.

I said "Being armed and not having a target still beats being defenseless."
This is a situation where you had a gun and couldn't use it.

For the situation of blue on blue, see the post above. It's possible, but unlikely, and stopping a killing spree is worth the risk.

[Cannot think of a name]

The point is innocent people killing each other in self-defense isn't fixing the situation.

Of course it isn't. Killing the perp (with a small chance of collateral damage) rather than waiting for him to get bored and go to sleep is. And the small risk of friendly fire far outweighs the certainty of further killings.

Here's a fun, if old, fact.

The Pentagon disclosed yesterday that 35 of the 148 American servicemen and women who perished on the battlefield in the Persian Gulf War were killed inadvertently by their comrades, an extraordinary proportion by historical standards and more than three times the number previously acknowledged.

Little over one in four times, trained men and woman shot the wrong guy. In a situation where they were going in knowing that they were gonna be shot at. Where the people there were all for the most part involved. Where people wore clothes to let you know what side they were on.

Trained.

Everyone has a gun.

Maybe the problem was that they were simply Army Strong and not Internet Tough.

[Vault 1]

Seriously I want to see you shoot into a crowd of frantic people while blind and vomitting, you could do it for those shooting exhibitions.

If the perp was 5 feet away from me, I would shoot him and hit just fine, even compromised.

What's the chance of one given person of being 5 feet away from him? Small.
If the theater was filled with armed personnel, what's the chance of someone being 5 feet away from him? Near certain.

[Genivaria]

Of course it isn't. Killing the perp (with a small chance of collateral damage) rather than waiting for him to get bored and go to sleep is. And the small risk of friendly fire far outweighs the certainty of further killings.

Here's a fun, if old, fact.

The Pentagon disclosed yesterday that 35 of the 148 American servicemen and women who perished on the battlefield in the Persian Gulf War were killed inadvertently by their comrades, an extraordinary proportion by historical standards and more than three times the number previously acknowledged.

Little over one in four times, trained men and woman shot the wrong guy. In a situation where they were going in knowing that they were gonna be shot at. Where the people there were all for the most part involved. Where people wore clothes to let you know what side they were on.

Trained.

Everyone has a gun.

Maybe the problem was that they were simply Army Strong and not Internet Tough.

That burn just caused Terrible, Terrible Damage. Quoted.

[Threlizdun]

The fuck are you talking about? You might be shooting someone else who looks like the perp.

I said "Being armed and not having a target still beats being defenseless."
This is a situation where you had a gun and couldn't use it.

For the situation of blue on blue, see the post above. It's possible, but unlikely, and stopping a killing spree is worth the risk.

No, being forced to carry weapons is not better than having the ability to choose for yourself whether you wish to carry them. The situation is also highly likely. Hell, people will probably shoot others even when there is no real danger just because they feel threatened and panic. People are not rational when they feel threatened. Giving them all firearms will not help the situation.

[Vault 1]

shot the wrong guy

Actually, virtually all friendly fire incidents involve heavy weapons - bombs, artillery, etc - not firearms.

[Norstal]

The fuck are you talking about? You might be shooting someone else who looks like the perp.

I said "Being armed and not having a target still beats being defenseless."
This is a situation where you had a gun and couldn't use it.

For the situation of blue on blue, see the post above. It's possible, but unlikely, and stopping a killing spree is worth the risk.

Why do you keep forgetting other people have guns?

[Threlizdun]

Seriously I want to see you shoot into a crowd of frantic people while blind and vomitting, you could do it for those shooting exhibitions.

If the perp was 5 feet away from me, I would shoot him and hit just fine, even compromised.

What's the chance of one given person of being 5 feet away from him? Small.
If the theater was filled with armed personnel, what's the chance of someone being 5 feet away from him? Near certain.

Brilliant, someone believes this person is about to fire upon them, so they shoot them. Everyone else sees the one person shooting the other person, so they assume they are the killers, and then kill them. People panic and bullets fly everywhere as everyone tries to shoot who they think the real killer is.

[Vault 1]

Why do you keep forgetting other people have guns?

See post viewtopic.php?p=10281268#p10281268

[Des-Bal]

Actually, virtually all friendly fire incidents involve heavy weapons - bombs, artillery, etc - not firearms.

Virtually all combat didn't occur in a fucking movie theater full of poison gas

[Vault 1]

Brilliant, someone believes this person is about to fire upon them, so they shoot them. Everyone else sees the one person shooting the other person, so they assume they are the killers, and then kill them. People panic and bullets fly everywhere as everyone tries to shoot who they think the real killer is.

This doesn't happen except in LiberalFantasyLand.

But explaining it to its residents - or, rather, people who believe themselves to be its residents - is rather futile.

[Vault 1]

Virtually all combat didn't occur in a fucking movie theater full of poison gas

Like I said, that wasn't a good situation for civil defense.
Even then, having a gun (but no clear target) at worst merely won't help, but not hurt.

[Threlizdun]

Brilliant, someone believes this person is about to fire upon them, so they shoot them. Everyone else sees the one person shooting the other person, so they assume they are the killers, and then kill them. People panic and bullets fly everywhere as everyone tries to shoot who they think the real killer is.

This doesn't happen except in LiberalFantasyLand.

But explaining it to its residents - or, rather, people who believe themselves to be its residents - is rather futile.

If you here a gunshot and turn around to find someone lying dead with another individual with a smoking gun standing over them, who are you going to believe was commiting the shooting?

[Paddy O Fernature]

Actually, virtually all friendly fire incidents involve heavy weapons - bombs, artillery, etc - not firearms.

Virtually all combat didn't occur in a fucking movie theater full of poison gas

I want a credible source for that poison gas that he used during his rampage.

Best of luck.

[Des-Bal]

If the perp was 5 feet away from me, I would shoot him and hit just fine, even compromised.

What's the chance of one given person of being 5 feet away from him? Small.
If the theater was filled with armed personnel, what's the chance of someone being 5 feet away from him? Near certain.

If you were 5 feet away from the perp I imagine someone could hit you from just fine too.

[JuNii]

I don't get someone else.
On the small chance that I do, I go to court and present my defense. You had other ideas in mind?

you do realize that even if the courts find you 'not guilty' of any crime, you are still open to a wrongful death lawsuite by the victim's family members.

I'm sure someone here has that link to the experiment they did with an armed citizen in a full classroom and they staged an attack on the classroom...

you don't miss... Lord be praised, we got us a Clint Barton here folks!