Stance on Abortion?

[Bokcha]

And making drunk driving illegal does? People still do it, regardless of having it crammed into your head since elementary school.
Whether people do it or not isn't relevant to the argument.

Read. The. Quote. Abortions increased, children were being abandoned, children were being given AIDS ffs. Making drunk driving illegal doesn't make the act any more dangerous. Making abortion illegal however, makes the act significantly more dangerous and violent. It. Does. Not. Work.

That's a problem with enforcement, not the moral reason behind the law.

[Mavorpen]

It is immoral to force your personal morality on others.

1) Would you say the same thing to an abolitionist of human slavery?
2) It’s always self-defeating to impose your own morals on others by telling them not to impose their own morals on others.
3) This kind of tendentious language implies that illegalising abortion is morally reprehensible, but think about it. The state “forces” us all to do or not do all sorts of things, such as:

not rape, even if someone really really wants to
drive at or under the speed limit
refrain from firebombing legal places of business
pay taxes
etc.
Unless you’re a consistent and total anarchist, you don’t have a problem with the state “forcing” its will on its citizens in some cases. The question is not whether morality will be imposed, but which morality will be imposed.

Okay, stop. Just stop. Those things are illegal because they directly break bodily sovereignty, property rights, etc. So stop with the false dichotomies.

[Alyekra]

Pro-life (except in cases of rape, incest, or when the mother's life is in danger)

"IF YOUR FATHER WAS A RAPIST YOU ARE NOT A HUMAN"

[Bokcha]

My moral grounds are in direct conflict with yours. But my moral grounds aren't the only reason I support pro choice. I also don't force my morality on others. I don't make anybody get or not get an abortion.

See, here's the thing, a pro-lifer thinks that abortion is murder and, therefore, they want to criminalize it. Unless you're happy with people killing each other because their moral code says that certain things (like honour killings) aren't murder and them not facing the legal consequences of such, then you don't really have a point.

It's easy for a pro-choicer to say that they don't want to force their moral code on others because, on this particular issue, they don't want to. But you don't really mean that you don't want to force your moral code on other people; you just think that people shouldn't enforce their own moral code on this specific subject.

It is immoral to force your personal morality on others.

1) Would you say the same thing to an abolitionist of human slavery?
2) It’s always self-defeating to impose your own morals on others by telling them not to impose their own morals on others.
3) This kind of tendentious language implies that illegalising abortion is morally reprehensible, but think about it. The state “forces” us all to do or not do all sorts of things, such as:

not rape, even if someone really really wants to
drive at or under the speed limit
refrain from firebombing legal places of business
pay taxes
etc.
Unless you’re a consistent and total anarchist, you don’t have a problem with the state “forcing” its will on its citizens in some cases. The question is not whether morality will be imposed, but which morality will be imposed.

This.

[Desperate Measures]

How about I am not a doctor and have no business pretending I know what is best for a patient going in for a medical procedure? Or that I don't wish to force a vast amount of expenses on people not equipped to handle them and who then must depend on a social safety net that obligate me to pay more in taxes? There is two reasons off the top of my head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood

You are paying for them regardless of if they live or not. And it is society's business when you kill a human being. That's why murder is illegal.

It's not a human being yet. (Edit: I meant person. It is a human being.) It's also legal where I am. That's why abortion is not murder.

And please. http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/planned-parenthood/

[Mavorpen]

That's a problem with enforcement, not the moral reason behind the law.

Take Ceausescu's Romania, for example. In order to bolster population, Nicolae Ceausescu made abortion illegal under almost all circumstances with Decree 770. Contraceptives disappeared, hospitals were watched closely by the Securitate, and women found to be pregnant were spied on by the Securitate until the birth was confirmed.

Are you kidding? They did everything they could to enforce it, and it failed. Try again, but actually read the quote this time.

[Bokcha]

Okay, stop. Just stop. Those things are illegal because they directly break bodily sovereignty, property rights, etc. So stop with the false dichotomies.

Killing someone doesn't break bodily sovereignty?

[Mavorpen]

Killing someone doesn't break bodily sovereignty?

Killing a fetus? No, since it's breaking another person's bodily sovereignty. Using your logic, you shouldn't be able to kill someone if they break into your home and threaten to kill your family.

[Bokcha]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood

You are paying for them regardless of if they live or not. And it is society's business when you kill a human being. That's why murder is illegal.

It's not a human being yet. It's also legal where I am. That's why abortion is not murder.

And please. http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/planned-parenthood/

Interesting. Thank you for enlightening me on the matter.
I still think it's immoral, regardless of if I am paying for it.

[Alyekra]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood

You are paying for them regardless of if they live or not. And it is society's business when you kill a human being. That's why murder is illegal.

It's not a human being yet. It's also legal where I am. That's why abortion is not murder.

And please. http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/planned-parenthood/

Only three percent indeed.

[Bokcha]

Killing someone doesn't break bodily sovereignty?

Killing a fetus? No, since it's breaking another person's bodily sovereignty. Using your logic, you shouldn't be able to kill someone if they break into your home and threaten to kill your family.

Accept you invited the fetus into your body. Sperm doesn't fly through the air and impregnate people on its own.

[The Darwinian People]

Killing someone doesn't break bodily sovereignty?

Killing a fetus? No, since it's breaking another person's bodily sovereignty. Using your logic, you shouldn't be able to kill someone if they break into your home and threaten to kill your family.

I get the breaking into your home thing. But, threatening to kill your family?

[Mavorpen]

Only three percent indeed.

Factbook>biased anti-abortion website.

[Mavorpen]

Accept you invited the fetus into your body. Sperm doesn't fly through the air and impregnate people on its own.

No, you didn't. You invited the penis into your body. Try again.

[Alyekra]

Only three percent indeed.

Factbook>biased anti-abortion website.

You're right, people who make money from abortions should be trustworthy when it comes to abortion facts.

[Mavorpen]

Factbook>biased anti-abortion website.

You're right, people who make money from abortions should be trustworthy when it comes to abortion facts.

...Factcheck doesn't make money from abortions.

[Bokcha]

Accept you invited the fetus into your body. Sperm doesn't fly through the air and impregnate people on its own.

No, you didn't. You invited the penis into your body. Try again.

If you allowed the male to cum inside you (ie, "not pull out"), you invited it in. You try again.

[Raeyh]

Accept you invited the fetus into your body. Sperm doesn't fly through the air and impregnate people on its own.

No, you didn't. You invited the penis into your body. Try again.

That's the same thing in practice.

[The Darwinian People]

Accept you invited the fetus into your body. Sperm doesn't fly through the air and impregnate people on its own.

No, you didn't. You invited the penis into your body. Try again.

I'm assuming we're talking about unprotected sex. Then, you knew that you could get pregnant as a result of inviting said penis into your body.

[Desperate Measures]

Factbook>biased anti-abortion website.

You're right, people who make money from abortions should be trustworthy when it comes to abortion facts.

Factcheck is a non-partisan, non-profit website.

[Mavorpen]

If you allowed the male to cum inside you (ie, "not pull out"), you invited it in. You try again.

Nice straw man. I never said anything about not using contraception or not in that post. You assumed I meant they weren't using contraception. Despite this, the woman still doesn't consent to the fetus.

[Bokcha]

If you allowed the male to cum inside you (ie, "not pull out"), you invited it in. You try again.

Nice straw man. I never said anything about not using contraception or not in that post. You assumed I meant they weren't using contraception. Despite this, the woman still doesn't consent to the fetus.

I didn't assume shit. The cum is still inside of you, even if it's wrapped up in a plastic bag.
If you consent to having cum in your vagina, you consent to the possibility of getting pregnant. End of story.

[Desperate Measures]

Nice straw man. I never said anything about not using contraception or not in that post. You assumed I meant they weren't using contraception. Despite this, the woman still doesn't consent to the fetus.

I didn't assume shit. The cum is still inside of you, even if it's wrapped up in a plastic bag.
If you consent to having cum in your vagina, you consent to the possibility of getting pregnant. End of story.

People in submarines are technically drowning in your opinion?

[Bokcha]

I didn't assume shit. The cum is still inside of you, even if it's wrapped up in a plastic bag.
If you consent to having cum in your vagina, you consent to the possibility of getting pregnant. End of story.

People in submarines are technically drowning in your opinion?

No, but they're in water, and could drown if the submarine got a hole in it.

[Mavorpen]

I didn't assume shit. The cum is still inside of you, even if it's wrapped up in a plastic bag.
If you consent to having cum in your vagina, you consent to the possibility of getting pregnant. End of story.

No, it's inside of the condom which is inside of you. You consent to the sperm being inside of the condom, nothing more.