NATION

PASSWORD

Stance on Abortion?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

Stance on Abortion

Pro-Choice (For Abortion)
503
65%
Pro-Life (Against Abortion)
203
26%
Neither/Other (Explain Below)
69
9%
 
Total votes : 775

User avatar
Deus Malum
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1524
Founded: Jan 24, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Deus Malum » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:00 pm

Raeyh wrote:
Sailsia wrote:No chance? Artificial insemination, bro. The fact that you didn't know the egg is fertilized in the uterus is troubling too.


I don't think those places just accept everyone.

Uterus is latin for womb.

Fertilization of the egg actually occurs in the fallopian tubes.
"Blood for the Blood God!" - Khorne Berserker
"Harriers for the Cup!" *shoots* - Ciaphas Cain, Hero of the Imperium

User avatar
Raeyh
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6275
Founded: Feb 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Raeyh » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:02 pm

Deus Malum wrote:
Raeyh wrote:
I don't think those places just accept everyone.

Uterus is latin for womb.

Fertilization of the egg actually occurs in the fallopian tubes.


I'll just take your word on that.

User avatar
Des-Bal
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32088
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:02 pm

Raeyh wrote:Look at the word "abortion." You are stopping what is currently going on, right?


Just like your stopping the egg from being fertilized by removing the egg from the equation.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

User avatar
Raeyh
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6275
Founded: Feb 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Raeyh » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:04 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
Raeyh wrote:Look at the word "abortion." You are stopping what is currently going on, right?


Just like your stopping the egg from being fertilized by removing the egg from the equation.


What, do you mean like forcibly separate people who are dating so they don't impregnate each other? That would be equally wrong, unless one of them is a criminal, obviously.

User avatar
Deus Malum
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1524
Founded: Jan 24, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Deus Malum » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:05 pm

Raeyh wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:They accept most anyone with money. Of course, their doctors will want to decide if you're capable of conceiving.


There you go, our teenager doesn't have money so we are left with him having 0% potential of having children again.

Sailsia wrote:I was mocking the usage of womb vs uterus but it might be construed as trolling so I retract that. But you still haven't set a line between [sperm] [egg] and [spermegg]. They are both not human, yet contain the same potential for becoming human.


The line that separates them is sex/insemination. Without that action, there is no chance for reproduction to occur.

And the line that separates a fertilized egg that's just been passed out of the uterine wall and will die unnoticed and unmourned and one that will remain in the uterus and potentially (again, with a roughly 50% probability) carry to term is something called "implantation." Blocking this, is, incidentally how the "morning after" pill works. You may wish to read up on and educate yourself on the subject.
"Blood for the Blood God!" - Khorne Berserker
"Harriers for the Cup!" *shoots* - Ciaphas Cain, Hero of the Imperium

User avatar
Deus Malum
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1524
Founded: Jan 24, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Deus Malum » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:06 pm

Raeyh wrote:
Deus Malum wrote:Fertilization of the egg actually occurs in the fallopian tubes.


I'll just take your word on that.

Why? Do you have some crippling inability to use Google or Wikipedia?
"Blood for the Blood God!" - Khorne Berserker
"Harriers for the Cup!" *shoots* - Ciaphas Cain, Hero of the Imperium

User avatar
Des-Bal
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32088
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:07 pm

Raeyh wrote:
What, do you mean like forcibly separate people who are dating so they don't impregnate each other? That would be equally wrong, unless one of them is a criminal, obviously.


No by whacking off into a sock. There's no egg therefore no baby.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

User avatar
Raeyh
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6275
Founded: Feb 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Raeyh » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:08 pm

Deus Malum wrote:
Raeyh wrote:
I'll just take your word on that.

Why? Do you have some crippling inability to use Google or Wikipedia?


All I found say that the tubes allow sperm to travel to the egg, which basically contradicts what you just said, but whatever.


Des-Bal wrote:
No by whacking off into a sock. There's no egg therefore no baby.


There is no egg at all in that situation. You are not removing anything.
Last edited by Raeyh on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:09 pm

Raeyh wrote:
Deus Malum wrote:Why? Do you have some crippling inability to use Google or Wikipedia?


All I found say that the tubes allow sperm to travel to the egg, which basically contradicts what you just said, but whatever.



Here.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
Lakabi
Attaché
 
Posts: 87
Founded: May 25, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Lakabi » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:10 pm

Being the proud father of a little girl, I can say wholeheartedly that I could not consider the possibility of going through an abortion, and neither could.my (now) wife.

However, this was our choice. As much as it may upset me to hear of others who did have an abortion, it is their choice and their lives, they have to live with the consequences.

No-one should be able to take away their right to choice.

User avatar
Globexanter
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6351
Founded: Aug 17, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Globexanter » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:11 pm

I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet, have the heated arguments not erupted yet?

Personally I'm pro-choice: Her body, Her choice. Answer to me with some "omg its murder" if you want to, but doing so shall be only a waste of your time.

User avatar
Deus Malum
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1524
Founded: Jan 24, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Deus Malum » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:12 pm

Raeyh wrote:
Deus Malum wrote:Why? Do you have some crippling inability to use Google or Wikipedia?


All I found say that the tubes allow sperm to travel to the egg, which basically contradicts what you just said, but whatever.


Des-Bal wrote:
No by whacking off into a sock. There's no egg therefore no baby.


There is no egg at all in that situation. You are not removing anything.

When an ovum is developing in an ovary, it is encapsulated in a sac known as an ovarian follicle. On maturity of the ovum, the follicle and the ovary's wall rupture, allowing the ovum to escape. The egg is caught by the fimbriated end and travels to the ampulla where typically the sperm are met and fertilization occurs; the fertilized ovum, now a zygote, travels towards the uterus aided by activity of tubal cilia and activity of the tubal muscle. After about five days the new embryo enters the uterine cavity and implants about a day later.

The release of a mature egg does not alternate between the two ovaries and seems to be random. After removal of an ovary, the remaining one produces an egg every month.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallopian_ ... tilization

So I'm going to go ahead and say "yes," you have some crippling fear of using Wikipedia as an information resource. Presumably Wikipedia ran over your dog, or something.
"Blood for the Blood God!" - Khorne Berserker
"Harriers for the Cup!" *shoots* - Ciaphas Cain, Hero of the Imperium

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:12 pm

Globexanter wrote:I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet, have the heated arguments not erupted yet?

Personally I'm pro-choice: Her body, Her choice. Answer to me with some "omg its murder" if you want to, but doing so shall be only a waste of your time.


Everything currently being debated was addressed earlier in the thread. Some people just refuse to be wrong.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 111683
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:14 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Globexanter wrote:I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet, have the heated arguments not erupted yet?

Personally I'm pro-choice: Her body, Her choice. Answer to me with some "omg its murder" if you want to, but doing so shall be only a waste of your time.


Everything currently being debated was addressed earlier in the thread. Some people just refuse to be wrong.

I myself find it very difficult to be wrong. I do try but then it almost always turns out that I'm right.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

User avatar
Globexanter
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6351
Founded: Aug 17, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Globexanter » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:14 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Globexanter wrote:I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet, have the heated arguments not erupted yet?

Personally I'm pro-choice: Her body, Her choice. Answer to me with some "omg its murder" if you want to, but doing so shall be only a waste of your time.


Everything currently being debated was addressed earlier in the thread. Some people just refuse to be wrong.

It is not a case of "refusing to be wrong", is it a case of not wanting to look inferior by going back on your argument and admitting you are wrong. Of course there is nothing wrong with this, yet it is something which many just cannot even think of doing.

User avatar
Frisivisia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18164
Founded: Aug 01, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Frisivisia » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:16 pm

Raeyh wrote:
Deus Malum wrote:Fertilization of the egg actually occurs in the fallopian tubes.


I'll just take your word on that.

Ever taken a seventh-grade health class?
Impeach The Queen, Legalize Anarchy, Stealing Things Is Not Theft. Sex Pistols 2017.
I'm the evil gubmint PC inspector, here to take your Guns, outlaw your God, and steal your freedom and give it to black people.
I'm Joe Biden. So far as you know.

For: Anarchy, Punk Rock Fury
Against: Thatcher, Fascists, That Fascist Thatcher, Reagan, Nazi Punks, Everyone
"Am I buggin' ya? I don't mean to bug ya." - Bono
Let's cram some more shit in my sig. Cool people cram shit in their sigs. In TECHNICOLOR!

User avatar
Raeyh
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6275
Founded: Feb 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Raeyh » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:18 pm

Frisivisia wrote:
Raeyh wrote:
I'll just take your word on that.

Ever taken a seventh-grade health class?


Yeah, that's what I got my given explanation from.

User avatar
Nordengrund
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7531
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Nordengrund » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:29 pm

The nucleus of a cell is the center of the cell and is like the brain of the cell. Even if it is not a brain, it is a living organism. A baby (or fetus, or whatever you want to call it) is made up of a cluster of these cells. Since these cells are living things, the fetus itself is a living thing.
1 John 1:9

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:30 pm

Nordengrund wrote:The nucleus of a cell is the center of the cell and is like the brain of the cell. Even if it is not a brain, it is a living organism. A baby (or fetus, or whatever you want to call it) is made up of a cluster of these cells. Since these cells are living things, the fetus itself is a living thing.


So cancer cells are living and killing it is murder. Got it.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
Fascist Iberia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 21
Founded: Aug 08, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Fascist Iberia » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:30 pm

Of course Not .

When the women is having a Sex relationship should take protections to avoid get pregnant .

So if they don't take protection it was is fault and she should carry the baby since the kid doesn't deserve to be aborted .
Last edited by Fascist Iberia on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Economic Left/Right: -7.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 6.10

User avatar
Samuraikoku
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31947
Founded: May 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Samuraikoku » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:31 pm

Fascist Iberia wrote:Of course Not .

When the women is having a Sex relationship should take protections to avoid get pregnant .

So if they don't take protection it was is fault and he should carry the baby since the kid doesn't deserve to be aborted .


Hello Mr. Limbaugh.

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 111683
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:32 pm

Fascist Iberia wrote:Of course Not .

When the women is having a Sex relationship should take protections to avoid get pregnant .

So if they don't take protection it was is fault and he should carry the baby since the kid doesn't deserve to be aborted .

"He" should carry the baby?
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

User avatar
Nordengrund
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7531
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Nordengrund » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:32 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Nordengrund wrote:The nucleus of a cell is the center of the cell and is like the brain of the cell. Even if it is not a brain, it is a living organism. A baby (or fetus, or whatever you want to call it) is made up of a cluster of these cells. Since these cells are living things, the fetus itself is a living thing.


So cancer cells are living and killing it is murder. Got it.


Yes, cells can reproduce, dispose of waste, work, have irratibility, have respiration, and even die. Therefore a cell is alive.
As you say, the unborn bay (fetus, or whatever you want to call it) is made up a cluster of these cells. Because these cells are alive, the unborn baby itself is alive.
1 John 1:9

User avatar
Samuraikoku
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31947
Founded: May 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Samuraikoku » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:33 pm

Nordengrund wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:
So cancer cells are living and killing it is murder. Got it.


Yes, cells can reproduce, dispose of waste, work, have irratibility, have respiration, and even die. Therefore a cell is alive.
As you say, the unborn bay (fetus, or whatever you want to call it) is made up a cluster of these cells. Because these cells are alive, the unborn baby itself is alive.


Except it's not unlawful to kill cancerous cells. Nor is it, via Roe vs. Wade, abortion.

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 111683
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:34 pm

Nordengrund wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:
So cancer cells are living and killing it is murder. Got it.


Yes, cells can reproduce, dispose of waste, work, have irratibility, have respiration, and even die. Therefore a cell is alive.
As you say, the unborn bay (fetus, or whatever you want to call it) is made up a cluster of these cells. Because these cells are alive, the unborn baby itself is alive.

Couldn't stay away, huh? It's still none of your business what choices I make.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Achan, Albaaa, Australian rePublic, Cappedore, Democratic Poopland, Dimetrodon Empire, Enormous Gentiles, Kenmoria, Kostane, The marxist plains, THM, Utquiagvik, Valentian Elysium

Advertisement

Remove ads