Best place to live?

[Neesika]

Pretty much exactly a month ago now

Congrats!

[Cabra West]

Well, Ireland was working quite hard to foster that kind of capitalistic enviornment, you know.

Enjoy the fruits of a capitalistic pro-entrepreneur soceity while you vote left against those very priciples

Well, Ireland is also working quite hard to achieve those social goals... one of the reasons they said no to the first Lisbon treay here

[The Romulan Republic]

Depends. Based on the safest country, I'm inclined to go with Canada (little history of political violence, not too much racial/ethnic/religious tension, lots of resources, fairly well-liked country, geographically unlikely to be in a war zone baring a full scale war between America and Russia/China). About the only things we're especially vulnerable to would be major Climate Change of the Ice Age kind, a nuclear war between aforementioned nations, or the Yellowstone volcano finally going off.

I prefer America's political system though, and I'm sure their are at least a few European countries with higher standards of living in various areas (probably Japan as well).

[Conservative Ad Droid]

Personally I believe this compiled list is complete and utter crap.

But my utopias are Switzerland and the USA (although fading as my utopia, I'll always love this country)

[Cabra West]

Pretty much exactly a month ago now

Congrats!

Thanks!

[The Atlantian islands]

Right but in comparison of the opportunity between nations, not between a nation and the continent of Europe, the USA comes away.

You can find much more opportunity in America, all speaking the same language with similar cultures, similar customs and no "international regulations" between states.

I don't see how you can realistically isolate a nation and ignore its position in a wider regional context, as you are attempting to do here. Cabra isn't discussing the continent of Europe, she's discussing how certain nations within the wider regional context (in particular in reference to border controls) seem to offer opportunities as good as what you're discussing as being available in the US. What 'more opportunity' is available to Cabra that would not be available to her where she is? Please be specific.

Well I don't know what she is in to, but here is a good, real life example.

A friend of mine is living in a European Country. He wants to study art and also something more practical, maybe business or journalism.

But the problem is that the university systems where he lives don't allow for real mixing like that, two concentrations. So he must limits his dreams. Then, if he chooses journalism, because he has not gone into the pre-created art track, he will never be able to be taken seriously with art. If he chooses art, he will never be able to make any money with that because the opportunity for artists simply is almost non-existent.

So he has always dreamed of moving to the US, where he can study both concentrations at the same time, and where he knows there will be much more opportunity as a journalist and as an artist, and where he is sure he will be able to make more money with his degrees and will have more flexibility with what to do with them.

Part of this is due to the fact that America is a huge country with an immense domestic market. Another part is due to the idea of flexible business and entrepreneurism, that is always creating and demolishing new sectors, companies, fields and technologies.

[Neesika]

Personally I believe this compiled list is complete and utter crap.

But my utopias are Switzerland and the USA (although fading as my utopia, I'll always love this country)

Well it's really going to depend on what you value, no? If you value things like public healthcare and education, if you value democracy, if you value multiculturalism, etc etc...that's going to point you towards certain nations. If you value working to live over living to work, you'll choose based on what nation shares that value, and so on. If you value opportunity to amass wealth and material possessions over focusing on interpersonal connections and social collaboration, again your choices of nation will be different.

[The Alma Mater]

No. As being fundamental concepts of how a nation operates, the USA was the first to be created with these ideas at its base.

Considering those ideas were taken from the Dutch, acting is if they were original is a tad bit ... odd.
Perhaps pay more attention in history class ?

[Gift-of-god]

Starting from nothing. No connections. Not being in the "upper class". Not from a rich family. Being a nobody.

Then having your dreams of what you want to do in life, and launching it off with nothing but your aspirations and intelligence.

And having a real chance to make it.

Like I said, I personally have family members who have done just that. You may choose to not believe me, but I'm not just writing this for finger-excersize.

...says the white male full time student who travels all summer.

How do you pay for all that anyways? Does your unconnected, not rich, not upper class, nobody family help you?

Or do you do it all by yourself with just aspirations and intellgence?

[Conservative Ad Droid]

Personally I believe this compiled list is complete and utter crap.

But my utopias are Switzerland and the USA (although fading as my utopia, I'll always love this country)

Well it's really going to depend on what you value, no? If you value things like public healthcare and education, if you value democracy, if you value multiculturalism, etc etc...that's going to point you towards certain nations. If you value working to live over living to work, you'll choose based on what nation shares that value, and so on. If you value opportunity to amass wealth and material possessions over focusing on interpersonal connections and social collaboration, again your choices of nation will be different.

Right. I wasn't arguing against that.

[Gopferdammi]

A bit surprised that Australia and France scored higher than Switzerland, but eh..would be interesting to see just how exactly that list was compilated.

[Neesika]

Right. I wasn't arguing against that.

I realise that, I was expanding on your point:)

[Conservative Ad Droid]

Right. I wasn't arguing against that.

I realise that, I was expanding on your point:)

Oh... well then.... uh... continue

I'll just go away and be tired somewhere else now...

[Hydesland]

But the problem is that the university systems where he lives don't allow for real mixing like that, two concentrations. So he must limits his dreams. Then, if he chooses journalism, because he has not gone into the pre-created art track, he will never be able to be taken seriously with art. If he chooses art, he will never be able to make any money with that because the opportunity for artists simply is almost non-existent.

Errr, well I don't know where your friend is living, but this wont be true for most of western Europe.

[The Atlantian islands]

Starting from nothing. No connections. Not being in the "upper class". Not from a rich family. Being a nobody.

Then having your dreams of what you want to do in life, and launching it off with nothing but your aspirations and intelligence.

And having a real chance to make it.

Like I said, I personally have family members who have done just that. You may choose to not believe me, but I'm not just writing this for finger-excersize.

...says the white male full time student who travels all summer.

How do you pay for all that anyways? Does your unconnected, not rich, not upper class, nobody family help you?

Or do you do it all by yourself with just aspirations and intellgence?

Oh, I can almost see the jealousy and dislike dripping off that post.

Well, at home, this helps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_Futures

And please, get your facts straight. I don't only travel during the summer. I'm out of the country right now as well.

[Samurkhan]

Switzerland, Monaco, and Greece or Cyprus...

Cyprus is lovely, i'n it? Too many tourists though to enjoy living there though, or at least that's what it seemed when I took a holiday there ('cept I wasn't on a holiday but a dig site.)

[The Atlantian islands]

No. As being fundamental concepts of how a nation operates, the USA was the first to be created with these ideas at its base.

Considering those ideas were taken from the Dutch, acting is if they were original is a tad bit ... odd.
Perhaps pay more attention in history class ?

The fundamental concepts of the American state were taken from England, Holland and France, with minor parts also from Germany . . . from the enlightenment. The French, British and Dutch states, at that time, hadn't yet incorported those ideas completely into their national foundations when the American state was litrally birthed out of them (those concepts).

[Cabra West]

Oh, I can almost see the jealousy and dislike dripping off that post.

Well, at home, this helps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_Futures

And please, get your facts straight. I don't only travel during the summer. I'm out of the country right now as well.

That, indeed, is an opportunity you wouldn't see too many of over here. I spent most of my holidays working since I was 16, to fund a few travels, and my room and living expenses when at university later.

[Muravyets]

Starting from nothing. No connections. Not being in the "upper class". Not from a rich family. Being a nobody.

Then having your dreams of what you want to do in life, and launching it off with nothing but your aspirations and intelligence.

And having a real chance to make it.

Like I said, I personally have family members who have done just that. You may choose to not believe me, but I'm not just writing this for finger-excersize.

Sounds pretty much like what me and my husband have done. Is that now the Irish dream, then?

No, no, see, what you're forgetting is that there is no such thing as change. The entire world works exactly the same now as it did in the 1890s. All of Europe is still in the grip of a repressive class system that keeps workers and peasants tied to dead-end existences in tiny villages, generation after generation. And the Irish? Oh, everyone knows they're just fucked, what with the English landlords and the potato famine and what all. The only nation in the world that offers anyone a chance to break those social chains is the US, where the bonds and rules of the "old country" don't apply.

And here in the US, everyone knows anyone can just roll out a pushcart on Delancy Street in NYC and lay the groundwork for the next major department store by selling sundries on the corner. Anyone, by dint of hard work, can send their kids to college -- a dream they were barred from in the "old world" -- and if things don't pan out in the great urban melting pots, hey, there's always cheap land out west.

Here in the US, there is no such thing as barriers to advancement enforced by money, rather than social class. There is no such thing as crippling debt. And it never happens and can never happen that our children do not prosper as well as their parents did.

Except of course that all those things are true and are happening right now.

The fact is that the "American dream" is diluted by the fact that other nations have liberalized themselves, and it is corrupted by the corporatism of American society.

The USA is a great place to live. But significantly better than any other affluent nation? No, not anymore. I'd say it's just about the same, more or less.

[Hydesland]

Considering those ideas were taken from the Dutch, acting is if they were original is a tad bit ... odd.
Perhaps pay more attention in history class ?

Not really, the ideas came from all over the place, largely in the UK around 500 years ago, but it wasn't till a bit before the industrial revolution they were pu somewhat in to practice. However, the economics of free market for the last century has been largely centralised in the US and then the ideas somewhat exported to other countries.

[Gift-of-god]

Oh, I can almost see the jealousy and dislike dripping off that post.

Well, at home, this helps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_Futures

And please, get your facts straight. I don't only travel during the summer. I'm out of the country right now as well.

I see. Your scholarship that pays for your tuition in Florida universities is somehow letting you travel to Europe throughout the year.

This only supports my claim that your family is able to access more opportunities than most, and thus can not be indicative of the situation for most USians.

[The Atlantian islands]

Oh, I can almost see the jealousy and dislike dripping off that post.

Well, at home, this helps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_Futures

And please, get your facts straight. I don't only travel during the summer. I'm out of the country right now as well.

I see. Your scholarship that pays for your tuition in Florida universities is somehow letting you travel to Europe throughout the year.

This only supports my claim that your family is able to access more opportunities than most, and thus can not be indicative of the situation for most USians.

Please do not refer to us as USians.
Or between working and having to pay almost anything for school, I have money to travel and I also know alot of people in Europe whom I stay with instead of hotels and hostels . . . ?

You're only supporting my claim that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Hydesland]

This only supports my claim that your family is able to access more opportunities than most, and thus can not be indicative of the situation for most USians.

But that's why I was saying earlier that you can't really say what the best place to live is on a national level, as it depends too much on socio-economic status first.

[Neesika]

But that's why I was saying earlier that you can't really say what the best place to live is on a national level, as it depends too much on socio-economic status first.

Something that TAI would deny is a factor that should be taken into consideration in the US, as all USians are essentially equal.

[Cabra West]

But that's why I was saying earlier that you can't really say what the best place to live is on a national level, as it depends too much on socio-economic status first.

Good point.

A while back, I heard an interesting story about this. It was basically a mental excercise... imagine you're a soul about to be born. You will have no influence on if you're going to be male, female, black, white, no influence on what kind of family you will be born into, rich or poor, not even any influence on if you're going to be healthy or severely disabled.
The conclusion the author of this story came to that the best society is the society where you as a soul about to be born don't need to worry about what your life will be like.