I Find This Disgusting, Does NationStates?

[Inzijard]

You're explicitly stating who you think is Christian and who isn't. That's not your job, period.

I am not explicitly stating who I think is Christian and who isn't. Far from it. Oxford will tell you what a Christian is, and I know you're fairly adept at digging up definitions. I am stating my views of God and faith, and how I view others' practises relative to my own.

[North America and Great Britain]

Blasphemy of Christ is the only unforgivable sin.

Mark 3:28-29

(28) Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, (29) but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.

It all depends on interpretation. I believe blasphemy is the denial of the fact that Jesus is the Messiah, and the fact that God exists, but I am unsure whether those raised outside the faith and are completely isolated from it are dealt with in the same way, such as a Christian who turns away and begins slandering the religion. However, a person raised in an atheistic society that has never even heard of religion, may be spared. Only God knows...

[Des-Bal]

No, I don't believe non-Christians go to hell. I believe evil, sinful people go to hell. You know, like fuckwad murdering assholes slaughtering people who are enjoying time with their families and friends.

So does your condemnation stand for any christian who believes in Sola Fide? I'm just wondering whether it's worse that he thinks they're going to hell or that he didn't keep his mouth shut about those beliefs ,which would actually be kind of odd for a pastor.

[Locyrmor]

As a Christian, I think he is an arrogant dickhead of epic proportions and that he should not presume to know who God will and will not allow to enter into heaven. He's a vile, disgusting creature if he can further hurt the families of the dead by suggesting that they're going to hell.

As a Christian do you believe non-Christians go to hell? It's what he believes and if you believe the same thing it's honestly really hypocritical to put that belief on the back burner just because a tragedy has happened.

The problen is not the belief because nobody deserves to go to heaven. The issue is that this man is using belief in an insensitive fashion.

EDIT you seem remarkably accusatory in your posts. Do you think people actually deserve to go to heaven?

[Katganistan]

No, I don't believe non-Christians go to hell. I believe evil, sinful people go to hell. You know, like fuckwad murdering assholes slaughtering people who are enjoying time with their families and friends.

Kat, stop being reasonable. I need to release my years of contempt and hatred for God, and you're making it awfully difficult to do so.

Why, because I'm not a holier-than-thou asshole who presumes to know the mind of God and what his plan is in detail? Because I'm not a callous asshole who announces that the people who died for no reason are going to hell because they aren't Christian? Because I don't expect everyone in the world to believe the things I believe, and believe that if they don't join the hivemind, they are automatically evil and doomed to suffer eternally?

Sorry to disappoint. I'll call a troll a troll when I see one -- and this Pastor is a troll, make no mistake -- and admit that there are people who CALL themselves Christian who don't in the least follow the example of Christ, and that there are non-Christians I'd sooner trust with my life.

[Trotskylvania]

As a Christian do you believe non-Christians go to hell? It's what he believes and if you believe the same thing it's honestly really hypocritical to put that belief on the back burner just because a tragedy has happened.

The problen is not the belief because nobody deserves to go to heaven. The issue is that this man is using belief in an insensitive fashion.

His insensitivity is a required article of faith for a Christian. As such, I do not condemn him for being honest about the doctrines of a faith 80 percent of Americans profess to. This honestly strikes me as a healthier position than the usual passive-aggression from those of religious faith.

[Mavorpen]

Why, because I'm not a holier-than-thou asshole who presumes to know the mind of God and what his plan is in detail? Because I'm not a callous asshole who announces that the people who died for no reason are going to hell because they aren't Christian? Because I don't expect everyone in the world to believe the things I believe, and believe that if they don't join the hivemind, they are automatically evil and doomed to suffer eternally?

Sorry to disappoint. I'll call a troll a troll when I see one -- and this Pastor is a troll, make no mistake -- and admit that there are people who CALL themselves Christian who don't in the least follow the example of Christ, and that there are non-Christians I'd sooner trust with my life.

This would be really awkward if you thought I was serious.

[Inzijard]

there are people who CALL themselves Christian who don't in the least follow the example of Christ, and that there are non-Christians I'd sooner trust with my life.

I enjoyed that. I can relate.

Highfive.

[Aleckandor]

Why, because I'm not a holier-than-thou asshole who presumes to know the mind of God and what his plan is in detail? Because I'm not a callous asshole who announces that the people who died for no reason are going to hell because they aren't Christian? Because I don't expect everyone in the world to believe the things I believe, and believe that if they don't join the hivemind, they are automatically evil and doomed to suffer eternally?

Sorry to disappoint. I'll call a troll a troll when I see one -- and this Pastor is a troll, make no mistake -- and admit that there are people who CALL themselves Christian who don't in the least follow the example of Christ, and that there are non-Christians I'd sooner trust with my life.

This would be really awkward if you thought I was serious.

No-time-for-bullshit Marco Moderator at his finest.

[Katganistan]

Why, because I'm not a holier-than-thou asshole who presumes to know the mind of God and what his plan is in detail? Because I'm not a callous asshole who announces that the people who died for no reason are going to hell because they aren't Christian? Because I don't expect everyone in the world to believe the things I believe, and believe that if they don't join the hivemind, they are automatically evil and doomed to suffer eternally?

Sorry to disappoint. I'll call a troll a troll when I see one -- and this Pastor is a troll, make no mistake -- and admit that there are people who CALL themselves Christian who don't in the least follow the example of Christ, and that there are non-Christians I'd sooner trust with my life.

This would be really awkward if you thought I was serious.

I don't think you're serious. The explanation stands, however.

[Des-Bal]

The problen is not the belief because nobody deserves to go to heaven. The issue is that this man is using belief in an insensitive fashion.

EDIT you seem remarkably accusatory in your posts. Do you think people actually deserve to go to heaven?

I'm an Atheist, I just happened to notice that there seems to be a lot of backlash from christians- many of whom probably have the same beliefs. Should he have just pretended that the massacre never happened? "Only Christians go to Heaven" is a pretty common belief in Christianity the problem is people try to avoid thinking about what that means in a scenario like 9/11. If the only thing you have to do to offend someone with your beliefs is to say them out loud you have offensive beliefs.

[Mavorpen]

I don't think you're serious. The explanation stands, however.

Indeed, which is why it's not awkward since you didn't believe I was serious.

there are people who CALL themselves Christian who don't in the least follow the example of Christ, and that there are non-Christians I'd sooner trust with my life.

I enjoyed that. I can relate.

Highfive.

Didn't you just say:

You're explicitly stating who you think is Christian and who isn't. That's not your job, period.

I am not explicitly stating who I think is Christian and who isn't. Far from it. Oxford will tell you what a Christian is, and I know you're fairly adept at digging up definitions. I am stating my views of God and faith, and how I view others' practises relative to my own.

[Inzijard]

Following the example of Christ is not the same as being a Christian. Don't make that mistake. A Christian just has to believe in God and accept Him as the creator and the saviour, but to actually follow what God has taught seems to take a lot of discipline in a hedonistic society, from what I've seen. I honestly don't find it difficult at all. As I said before, there are many faithful people who abuse the fact that "God will forgive them."

I know that these people will still be judged accordingly. It is not my place to say how, when, and in what manner, however.

[The Ninth Legion]

Mathew 25:31-46

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. ”

[Mavorpen]

Following the example of Christ is not the same as being a Christian. Don't make that mistake. A Christian just has to believe in God and accept Him as the creator and the saviour, but to actually follow what God has taught seems to take a lot of discipline in a hedonistic society, from what I've seen. I honestly don't find it difficult at all. As I said before, there are many faithful people who abuse the fact that "God will forgive them."

I know that these people will still be judged accordingly. It is not my place to say how, when, and in what manner, however.

The problem is, there are a lot of interpretations.

[Trotskylvania]

Kat, stop being reasonable. I need to release my years of contempt and hatred for God, and you're making it awfully difficult to do so.

Why, because I'm not a holier-than-thou asshole who presumes to know the mind of God and what his plan is in detail? Because I'm not a callous asshole who announces that the people who died for no reason are going to hell because they aren't Christian? Because I don't expect everyone in the world to believe the things I believe, and believe that if they don't join the hivemind, they are automatically evil and doomed to suffer eternally?

Sorry to disappoint. I'll call a troll a troll when I see one -- and this Pastor is a troll, make no mistake -- and admit that there are people who CALL themselves Christian who don't in the least follow the example of Christ, and that there are non-Christians I'd sooner trust with my life.

Kat, let's get right down to the facts. In many regards, Christ was not a good role model, and one can hardly fault a self-professed Christian for being true to the facts of the doctrine as presented in the Gospels. It's pretty common for believer and non-believer to accept the logic that Christ was a good teacher of men, and an example of virtue, of which the devout Christian C. S. Lewis vehemently disagreed with in his classic statement “Mere Christianity”:

“That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God; or else a madman or something worse.”

Christ is really not the kind of moral figure that people hold him out to be. As he's portrayed in the Bible, Christ is an end-times fanatic telling his flock that the world is end, to abandon their communities and turn away totally from the sinful world.
As Christopher Hitchens put it:

"Absent a direct line to the Almighty and a conviction that the last days are upon us, how is it "moral" to teach people to abandon their families, give up on thrift and husbandry and take to the stony roads? How is it moral to claim a monopoly on access to heaven, or to threaten waverers with everlasting fire, let alone to condemn fig trees and persuade devils to infest the bodies of pigs? Such a person if not divine would be a sorcerer and a ­fanatic."

'
You can't really cherry pick from the account, because the cop out makes the whole house of cards come down. Either he's the son of god, and it's gospel truth and the believer is compelled to the kind of fanaticism that the figure you disdain, or Christ is a madman or worse.

[Inzijard]

The problem is, there are a lot of interpretations.

I understand. The issue I have mostly is the fact that I segregate Christians within Christians, when it comes to forming an opinion. This is one of the reasons I've chosen to distance myself from "religion." Religion is an umbrella term with many negative connotations, and does not imply any real commitment to a faith or cause. I believe that the individual's relationship with God is what matters most, not what box they check on a census.

But yes, it is still not my place to judge anyone. I cannot speak on behalf of God, and who He will admit to heaven and on what terms, nor do I seek to. I adhere to my faith to the best of my own abilities, and believe that any Christian who truly wishes to follow in the ways of God should do the same, rather than walking around as though they're better than everyone else.

[Socialist Monarchies]

Insensitivity is NOT required by Christianity. In the Tale of the Good Samaritan, Jesus told his followers to act neighborly to everyone, regardless of what they believed. For some perspective, Jews and Samaritans were supposed to hate each other. You should try learning about the religion before speaking on it.

[Trotskylvania]

Insensitivity is NOT required by Christianity. In the Tale of the Good Samaritan, Jesus told his followers to act neighborly to everyone, regardless of what they believed. For some perspective, Jews and Samaritans were supposed to hate each other. You should try learning about the religion before speaking on it.

And in other passages, Christ tells his followers that he who does not hate his family, and take up the road preaching the gospel is an enemy and antichrist. In another, he tells his Apostles to not think that he came to bring peace, but rather the sword.

[Belgiam]

Not so disgusting as it is ass-hat-esque.

[Manahakatouki]

Just when I started to forget about this whole ordeal...

(In reality, it's impossible to forget, what with all the media in a variety of forms plastered at me, but I feel better going into my comment in a disgruntled mood)

I'm used to people saying these sort of things, especially after disasters, and so I don't feel the shock that some might feel...

However, thinking about it more does make me feel sick inside...

Nonetheless, he shouldn't have said what he said...

[Neutraligon]

Why, because I'm not a holier-than-thou asshole who presumes to know the mind of God and what his plan is in detail? Because I'm not a callous asshole who announces that the people who died for no reason are going to hell because they aren't Christian? Because I don't expect everyone in the world to believe the things I believe, and believe that if they don't join the hivemind, they are automatically evil and doomed to suffer eternally?

Sorry to disappoint. I'll call a troll a troll when I see one -- and this Pastor is a troll, make no mistake -- and admit that there are people who CALL themselves Christian who don't in the least follow the example of Christ, and that there are non-Christians I'd sooner trust with my life.

Kat, let's get right down to the facts. In many regards, Christ was not a good role model, and one can hardly fault a self-professed Christian for being true to the facts of the doctrine as presented in the Gospels. It's pretty common for believer and non-believer to accept the logic that Christ was a good teacher of men, and an example of virtue, of which the devout Christian C. S. Lewis vehemently disagreed with in his classic statement “Mere Christianity”:

“That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God; or else a madman or something worse.”

Christ is really not the kind of moral figure that people hold him out to be. As he's portrayed in the Bible, Christ is an end-times fanatic telling his flock that the world is end, to abandon their communities and turn away totally from the sinful world.
As Christopher Hitchens put it:

"Absent a direct line to the Almighty and a conviction that the last days are upon us, how is it "moral" to teach people to abandon their families, give up on thrift and husbandry and take to the stony roads? How is it moral to claim a monopoly on access to heaven, or to threaten waverers with everlasting fire, let alone to condemn fig trees and persuade devils to infest the bodies of pigs? Such a person if not divine would be a sorcerer and a ­fanatic."

'
You can't really cherry pick from the account, because the cop out makes the whole house of cards come down. Either he's the son of god, and it's gospel truth and the believer is compelled to the kind of fanaticism that the figure you disdain, or Christ is a madman or worse.

Not a lunatic, a revolutionary and politician.
I have a different interpretation of what is meant by through Jesus. I am going to, for the sake of argument say Jesus was the son of God. Now if God is good, as is believed by Christians and wants people to be good, then by everything reasonable doing good is by definition working through Jesus and thus through God, whether or not you recognize him as the savior, or for that matter don't believe in God at all. Essentially everyone gets the benefit based on deeds not simply believing in a God or a specific God, or even believing that one man is the savior. Basically if there is a God then it focuses on the good someone has done rather than on blind faith, and if there isn't one, well then it doesn't matter.

[Isointania]

Kat, stop being reasonable. I need to release my years of contempt and hatred for God, and you're making it awfully difficult to do so.

Why, because I'm not a holier-than-thou asshole who presumes to know the mind of God and what his plan is in detail? Because I'm not a callous asshole who announces that the people who died for no reason are going to hell because they aren't Christian? Because I don't expect everyone in the world to believe the things I believe, and believe that if they don't join the hivemind, they are automatically evil and doomed to suffer eternally?

Sorry to disappoint. I'll call a troll a troll when I see one -- and this Pastor is a troll, make no mistake -- and admit that there are people who CALL themselves Christian who don't in the least follow the example of Christ, and that there are non-Christians I'd sooner trust with my life.

Preach my friend!

[Isointania]

Just when I started to forget about this whole ordeal...

(In reality, it's impossible to forget, what with all the media in a variety of forms plastered at me, but I feel better going into my comment in a disgruntled mood)

I'm used to people saying these sort of things, especially after disasters, and so I don't feel the shock that some might feel...

However, thinking about it more does make me feel sick inside...

Nonetheless, he shouldn't have said what he said...

*nods*

[Isointania]

Why, because I'm not a holier-than-thou asshole who presumes to know the mind of God and what his plan is in detail? Because I'm not a callous asshole who announces that the people who died for no reason are going to hell because they aren't Christian? Because I don't expect everyone in the world to believe the things I believe, and believe that if they don't join the hivemind, they are automatically evil and doomed to suffer eternally?

Sorry to disappoint. I'll call a troll a troll when I see one -- and this Pastor is a troll, make no mistake -- and admit that there are people who CALL themselves Christian who don't in the least follow the example of Christ, and that there are non-Christians I'd sooner trust with my life.

Kat, let's get right down to the facts. In many regards, Christ was not a good role model, and one can hardly fault a self-professed Christian for being true to the facts of the doctrine as presented in the Gospels. It's pretty common for believer and non-believer to accept the logic that Christ was a good teacher of men, and an example of virtue, of which the devout Christian C. S. Lewis vehemently disagreed with in his classic statement “Mere Christianity”:

“That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God; or else a madman or something worse.”

Christ is really not the kind of moral figure that people hold him out to be. As he's portrayed in the Bible, Christ is an end-times fanatic telling his flock that the world is end, to abandon their communities and turn away totally from the sinful world.
As Christopher Hitchens put it:

"Absent a direct line to the Almighty and a conviction that the last days are upon us, how is it "moral" to teach people to abandon their families, give up on thrift and husbandry and take to the stony roads? How is it moral to claim a monopoly on access to heaven, or to threaten waverers with everlasting fire, let alone to condemn fig trees and persuade devils to infest the bodies of pigs? Such a person if not divine would be a sorcerer and a ­fanatic."

'
You can't really cherry pick from the account, because the cop out makes the whole house of cards come down. Either he's the son of god, and it's gospel truth and the believer is compelled to the kind of fanaticism that the figure you disdain, or Christ is a madman or worse.

Mmmm...