I Find This Disgusting, Does NationStates?

[MorrighanaWarGoddess]

Clicky Link

So, Pastor Jerry Newcombe has said that only Christian victims of the tragic Colorado shooting are going to Heaven. Apparently, this is because America has lost it's fear in Hell. I cannot read this without feeling sick to my stomach. It really is, to my mind, diabolical.

'If a Christian dies early, if a Christian dies young, it seems tragic, but really it is not tragic because they are going to a wonderful place ... on the other hand, if a person doesn’t know Jesus Christ ... if they knowingly rejected Jesus Christ, then, basically, they are going to a terrible place.'

I find this vile, disgusting and insulting to the victims of the Colorado shooting. I don't know where Mr Newcombe comes from, but I pretty sure you can't insult dead people like that. Surely, after tragedy like this, the families and loved ones might turn to God for comfort and would be told that their loved one was burning in Hell. Then, after all he has said, he turns this tragedy into opportunity to covert people to Christianity.

'For those who are not ‘in Christ’ and see this incredible tragedy, this would be a good time for soul reflection and consider why have you not accepted Jesus Christ ... I would urge anyone who is not in Christ to repent of your sins.'

You've heard my opinion, now I want to hear yours. What does NationStates think?

I think that God would be very displeased and find his motives self serving. God does not wish people to be forced , out of physical force or through fear and guilt, into believing he wants true believers that come of their own free will and from the heart. One of the things Jesus condemned within the Jewish organizations among other things that Christians now practice.

[Mavorpen]

That did not change what he firmly believed and what he would pursue if given the chance to do so once again. Sure his personal beliefs were set aside temporarily, but that's irrelevant. His crusade against religion for several decades previous is testament to that.

What? I never said he wasn't an Atheist. Of course he would do it again, he agreed with Lenin that religion was a hindrance to taking control of the masses. Again, I have no clue what Stalin has anything to do with this thread since his motives were politically based.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

As terrible as it is that he's saying these things in the face of tragedy, he has a right to say them and believe them. It's fucked up, I know, but it's his right.

[Inzijard]

I think that God would be very displeased and find his motives self serving. God does not wish people to be forced , out of physical force or through fear and guilt, into believing he wants true believers that come of their own free will and from the heart. One of the things Jesus condemned within the Jewish organizations among other things that Christians now practice.

That is exactly my stance on religion throughout history. God is pure, but man is impure. Man's impurity and control over faith has corrupted the idea of God and forged this concept of religion that we see today, and have seen even back to New Testament times.

The crusades of the middle ages were driven by God? Not in the slightest. I am appalled by the crusades and the destruction they caused, the aftermath of which is still visible today.

[The Kadeshi Alliance]

I think that God would be very displeased and find his motives self serving. God does not wish people to be forced , out of physical force or through fear and guilt, into believing he wants true believers that come of their own free will and from the heart. One of the things Jesus condemned within the Jewish organizations among other things that Christians now practice.

That is exactly my stance on religion throughout history. God is pure, but man is impure. Man's impurity and control over faith has corrupted the idea of God and forged this concept of religion that we see today, and have seen even back to New Testament times.

The crusades of the middle ages were driven by God? Not in the slightest. I am appalled by the crusades and the destruction they caused, the aftermath of which is still visible today.

Was god "pure" when he killed Egyptian children?

[Inzijard]

What? I never said he wasn't an Atheist. Of course he would do it again, he agreed with Lenin that religion was a hindrance to taking control of the masses. Again, I have no clue what Stalin has anything to do with this thread since his motives were politically based.

This stems back to my earlier quote:

God is entirely a voluntary decision. Unlike atheism (check out Stalin, c. 1930), God does not seek to be dumped on people, who are coerced into his teachings.

The relevance Stalin has to this topic is the fact that atheism has been forced on people by man throughout history (for political reasons or otherwise), while God does not wish to have the same done on His behalf. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened (reference the crusades at the turn of the last millennium), but those were acts committed by man, not God.

Hence, I do not approve of what man has made religion become.

[The Kadeshi Alliance]

What? I never said he wasn't an Atheist. Of course he would do it again, he agreed with Lenin that religion was a hindrance to taking control of the masses. Again, I have no clue what Stalin has anything to do with this thread since his motives were politically based.

This stems back to my earlier quote:

God is entirely a voluntary decision. Unlike atheism (check out Stalin, c. 1930), God does not seek to be dumped on people, who are coerced into his teachings.

The relevance Stalin has to this topic is the fact that atheism has been forced on people by man throughout history (for political reasons or otherwise), while God does not wish to have the same done on His behalf. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened (reference the crusades at the turn of the last millennium), but those were acts committed by man, not God.

Hence, I do not approve of what man has made religion become.

Not coerced you say?

Remind me what happens to people who reject his offer?

[Des-Bal]

This stems back to my earlier quote:

God is entirely a voluntary decision. Unlike atheism (check out Stalin, c. 1930), God does not seek to be dumped on people, who are coerced into his teachings.

The relevance Stalin has to this topic is the fact that atheism has been forced on people by man throughout history (for political reasons or otherwise), while God does not wish to have the same done on His behalf. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened (reference the crusades at the turn of the last millennium), but those were acts committed by man, not God.

Hence, I do not approve of what man has made religion become.

The only difference is that Atheism isn't sentient and doesn't have the power to stop people from forcing each other. Atheism is only forced on people by other people that's exactly what you're saying to extoll the innocence of god in all things.

[Mavorpen]

This stems back to my earlier quote:

God is entirely a voluntary decision. Unlike atheism (check out Stalin, c. 1930), God does not seek to be dumped on people, who are coerced into his teachings.

The relevance Stalin has to this topic is the fact that atheism has been forced on people by man throughout history (for political reasons or otherwise), while God does not wish to have the same done on His behalf. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened (reference the crusades at the turn of the last millennium), but those were acts committed by man, not God.

That's nice, but this is a false dichotomy. There is no supernatural being asking atheists to force atheism upon others. Thus this has nothing to do with atheism itself. It has everything to do with politics, mental stability, etc. Also, you cannot know whether God was behind those instances, so I'm not going to take those claims seriously.

Hence, I do not approve of what man has made religion become.

Too bad it's not your job to judge man, it's God's. Why are you trying to do God's job?

[Trotskylvania]

Personally, I find his honesty refreshing. This is what you are required to believe in order to be a Christian. Without that, none of the bullshit makes any internally consistent sense, and the whole house of cards comes down. The fault is with the ideology of Christianity and its place in the halo of suffering that is religion, not some person for speaking the truth about the ideology that 80 percent of Americans pay lipservice to.

If saying this is so horribly offensive to you as a Christian, I suggest you stop being a Christian.

[Itanica]

OP's tears are delicious.

[Norstal]

Personally, I find his honesty refreshing. This is what you are required to believe in order to be a Christian. Without that, none of the bullshit makes any internally consistent sense, and the whole house of cards comes down. The fault is with the ideology of Christianity and its place in the halo of suffering that is religion, not some person for speaking the truth about the ideology that 80 percent of Americans pay lipservice to.

If saying this is so horribly offensive to you as a Christian, I suggest you stop being a Christian.

I thought Christians can cherry-pick what they like to believe. It annoys me, but I thought that they can very well do that.

[Aleckandor]

It's these kinds of religious vultures that first made me distance myself from the Catholic church. Not much more to say, I'm a Christian and I find people who use things like this to push their point or threaten people to repent or face the fires of hell utterly disgusting. At least people who point to this tragedy for other purposes (gun control) have a concrete reason behind their point, this is just some crazy abstract bullshit that 1) Does more harm than good and 2) is fuckin' insensitive, inappropriate, and ill-timed as fuck.

Dear (crazy) Christians: God isn't sending us a sign that movies are too violent or culture is corrupt. Stop claiming so.

Edit: yadda yadda free speech yadda first amendment yadda yadda banana hammock yadda...

[Trotskylvania]

What? I never said he wasn't an Atheist. Of course he would do it again, he agreed with Lenin that religion was a hindrance to taking control of the masses. Again, I have no clue what Stalin has anything to do with this thread since his motives were politically based.

This stems back to my earlier quote:

God is entirely a voluntary decision. Unlike atheism (check out Stalin, c. 1930), God does not seek to be dumped on people, who are coerced into his teachings.

The relevance Stalin has to this topic is the fact that atheism has been forced on people by man throughout history (for political reasons or otherwise), while God does not wish to have the same done on His behalf. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened (reference the crusades at the turn of the last millennium), but those were acts committed by man, not God.

Hence, I do not approve of what man has made religion become.

As Zizek noted, Marxism-Leninism has more in common with fundamentalist religious faith than with the materialist atheism is presented:

But what about the Stalinist Communist mass killings? What about the extra-legal liquidations of the nameless millions? It is easy to see how these crimes were always justified by their own ersatz-god, a "god that failed" as Ignazio Silone, one of the great disappointed ex-Communists, called it: they had their own god, which is why everything was permitted to them.

In other words, the same logic as that of religious violence applies here. Stalinist Communists do not perceive themselves as hedonist individualists abandoned to their freedom. Rather, they perceive themselves as instruments of historical progress, of a necessity which pushes humanity towards the "higher" stage of Communism - and it is this reference to their own Absolute (and to their privileged relationship to it) which permits them to do whatever they want.

[Genivaria]

I really do feel sorry for the very compassionate Christians here who share that title with this filth.
Don't worry guys we won't lob you in together with that psychopath.

[Katganistan]

Clicky Link

So, Pastor Jerry Newcombe has said that only Christian victims of the tragic Colorado shooting are going to Heaven. Apparently, this is because America has lost it's fear in Hell....You've heard my opinion, now I want to hear yours. What does NationStates think?

As a Christian, I think he is an arrogant dickhead of epic proportions and that he should not presume to know who God will and will not allow to enter into heaven. He's a vile, disgusting creature if he can further hurt the families of the dead by suggesting that they're going to hell.

[Trotskylvania]

Personally, I find his honesty refreshing. This is what you are required to believe in order to be a Christian. Without that, none of the bullshit makes any internally consistent sense, and the whole house of cards comes down. The fault is with the ideology of Christianity and its place in the halo of suffering that is religion, not some person for speaking the truth about the ideology that 80 percent of Americans pay lipservice to.

If saying this is so horribly offensive to you as a Christian, I suggest you stop being a Christian.

I thought Christians can cherry-pick what they like to believe. It annoys me, but I thought that they can very well do that.

It's hard to get around such clear, absolute declarations from Christ like "No one comes to the father but through me"

[Inzijard]

Too bad it's not your job to judge man, it's God's. Why are you trying to do God's job?

I am not judging man as God would. I am standing by an opinion. Am I allowed to have an opinion, good sir, or are those forbidden where you come from?

Aside from that, no, I wouldn't be able to handle God's job. Far too many people, really.

[Aleckandor]

I really do feel sorry for the very compassionate Christians here who share that title with this filth.
Don't worry guys we won't lob you in together with that psychopath.

Thank you. That man is an insult not just to the Christian faith, but to all faiths, and to a greater extent, the entire human race.

[Mavorpen]

I am not judging man as God would. I am standing by an opinion. Am I allowed to have an opinion, good sir, or are those forbidden where you come from?

You're explicitly stating who you think is Christian and who isn't. That's not your job, period.

[Des-Bal]

As a Christian, I think he is an arrogant dickhead of epic proportions and that he should not presume to know who God will and will not allow to enter into heaven. He's a vile, disgusting creature if he can further hurt the families of the dead by suggesting that they're going to hell.

As a Christian do you believe non-Christians go to hell? It's what he believes and if you believe the same thing it's honestly really hypocritical to put that belief on the back burner just because a tragedy has happened.

[Genivaria]

I really do feel sorry for the very compassionate Christians here who share that title with this filth.
Don't worry guys we won't lob you in together with that psychopath.

Thank you. That man is an insult not just to the Christian faith, but to all faiths, and to a greater extent, the entire human race.

Couldn't agree more.

[Inzijard]

I really do feel sorry for the very compassionate Christians here who share that title with this filth.
Don't worry guys we won't lob you in together with that psychopath.

Thank you. That man is an insult not just to the Christian faith, but to all faiths, and to a greater extent, the entire human race.

I am sadly compelled to agree. While his intentions may have been good, his method and timing was highly distasteful. This is not the first incident, and not likely to be the last. It is people like this who give God a bad image.

[Katganistan]

As a Christian, I think he is an arrogant dickhead of epic proportions and that he should not presume to know who God will and will not allow to enter into heaven. He's a vile, disgusting creature if he can further hurt the families of the dead by suggesting that they're going to hell.

As a Christian do you believe non-Christians go to hell? It's what he believes and if you believe the same thing it's honestly really hypocritical to put that belief on the back burner just because a tragedy has happened.

No, I don't believe non-Christians go to hell. I believe evil, sinful people go to hell. You know, like fuckwad murdering assholes slaughtering people who are enjoying time with their families and friends. But thanks for calling me a hypocrite without knowing what I believe -- it's super offensive.

[Mavorpen]

No, I don't believe non-Christians go to hell. I believe evil, sinful people go to hell. You know, like fuckwad murdering assholes slaughtering people who are enjoying time with their families and friends.

Kat, stop being reasonable. I need to release my years of contempt and hatred for God, and you're making it awfully difficult to do so.