I Find This Disgusting, Does NationStates?

[Occupied Deutschland]

I'm 15, and even though my parents are aware of the fact that I'm atheist, they believe that it's because I'm not opening my heart and ears enough to what's said at church. So they drag me, and I can't tell them otherwise.

That's really bad. My parents don't make me go to Church. They don't even bother me with religion. We just don't talk about it, and sometimes when we do, it's a calm discussion. None of the, "ACCEPT JESUS OR BURN!" shit.

The underlined is the way it should be.

Evangelicals and their fiery irrational and emotional condemnations of non-Christians have done more to hurt Christianity (note I don't use 'church' here) than anything else I can think of off the top of my head, at least recently.

[Inzijard]

Funny, the most devout people I know are the most bigoted.

I'm not surprised.

As I said, I do not speak on behalf of the religious world. I have certain opinions regarding what God actually means to me, and I find this to not be the case for the majority of even the faithful people I know. I will not, and cannot, argue your statistics. I distance myself from most religion as much as I do atheism, because the people practising it are no different than the "unbelievers" they so strongly oppose in any way aside from views of origin of man.

Which doesn't require belief in a God.

This is correct, which is why I have a lot of respect for some honest atheists. I'm not here to propagate anti-atheism or even religion. I just feel that God is heavily misconstrued in modern contexts.

[Pretty Awesome Persons]

I'm 15, and even though my parents are aware of the fact that I'm atheist, they believe that it's because I'm not opening my heart and ears enough to what's said at church. So they drag me, and I can't tell them otherwise.

That complicates things.

Yeah...it gets on my nerves sometimes but I deal with it.

I'm 15, and even though my parents are aware of the fact that I'm atheist, they believe that it's because I'm not opening my heart and ears enough to what's said at church. So they drag me, and I can't tell them otherwise.

Heh, I'm 20 and I'm in the same position as you mate...

Just until I'm done with college anyways.

Hah. Tell me about it. I still have a few years left with them.

I'm 15, and even though my parents are aware of the fact that I'm atheist, they believe that it's because I'm not opening my heart and ears enough to what's said at church. So they drag me, and I can't tell them otherwise.

That's really bad. My parents don't make me go to Church. They don't even bother me with religion. We just don't talk about it, and sometimes when we do, it's a calm discussion. None of the, "ACCEPT JESUS OR BURN!" shit.

Lucky, all my discussions (more like arguments) are the ACCEPT JESUS OR BURN

[Locyrmor]

No, it doesn't.

It doesn't even though I consider the number of misguided atheists I've encountered "many?" It's certainly too many to count.

It may be sufficient for you, but not for us. And I'm still going to call bullshit because most of the Atheists on NSG are knowledgeable about religion.

The responses to this thread indicates otherwise otherwise.

You don't have an actual argument, do you?

When did I say I was making one? I was clarifying some things that people obviously didn't get.

Sorry, but if that's not good enough for you then I won't waste my time with someone who's goal is obviously to try to embarrass me.

[Mavorpen]

If I called myself a member of a group, that does not automatically make me a member of my group.

Likewise that if you claim that someone else is not a member of a group, that does not automatically make them not a member of the group.

If a Christian by definition means that you have faith in Christ (which directly means a Christian is by definition saved) then Matthew 7-8 would indicate that there certainly are people who call themselves Christians that cannot be considered Christians.

That's nice. It's not your place to judge them and decide who is one and who isn't.

Belief in God certainly justifies it though.

No, it doesn't. I already proved this wrong with my previous source.

"Love your neighbor" is one of Jesus' primary teachings. If these people are truly "devout" then they cannot be bigoted.

Are you seriously just going to spout this nonsense?

[Des-Bal]

1. I see it like this:

God knows all, and has given us free will. He knows everything we will consider doing, and knows the consequences of every possible action and reaction. Essentially, He plans for everything we might do, as well as for every possible action/reaction on the part of everybody else. Hard to adequately explain, but suffice it to say that it is infinitely more complex than dominos.

Think of it more as knowing every possible opening move in a game of chess, as well as every move in response, and so on.

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying.

Does god know what decision you'll make based on certain stimuli? If he doesn't he's not omniscient, he's not even a very good at reading people.

Did god create the universe? If he did then he created all the stimuli.

God knew Adam and Eve would eat the forbidden fruit if he didn't he's not omniscient. The same can be applied to any scenario.

[Adafdfadfasdf]

The staff used both incidents as an opportunity to save souls for Christ. Essentially, they said that we couldn't really know whether they were truly saved or were just faking it (which I can totally understand somebody doing there, as openly admitting to not being saved would make one susceptible to being witnessed to by the staff and some of the students, which would get really annoying), and proceeded with descriptions of Hell, in particular making heavy usage of the parable involving Lazarus and the rich man.

The whole parable of Lazarus and the rich man kind of blows the whole theory that worshiping Jesus gets you into heaven. The rich man wasn't damned for any reason other than the fact that he was a stingy dick-wad.

[Mavorpen]

It doesn't even though I consider the number of misguided atheists I've encountered "many?" It's certainly too many to count.

Prove it. Name them.

The responses to this thread indicates otherwise otherwise.

Again, provide examples.

[Locyrmor]

Evangelicals and their fiery irrational and emotional condemnations of non-Christians have done more to hurt Christianity (note I don't use 'church' here) than anything else I can think of off the top of my head, at least recently.

I don't think you can generalize about all evangelicals since there are certainly some calm evangelicals like William Lane Craig. Most of the time he is much calmer than his opponent.

However, you could certainly say that many evangelicals are "fiery", but I hope you would realize that atheists are also quote vitriolic in some places (youtube, reddit, etc).

[Locyrmor]

It doesn't even though I consider the number of misguided atheists I've encountered "many?" It's certainly too many to count.

Prove it. Name them.

The responses to this thread indicates otherwise otherwise.

Again, provide examples.

As I said, I don't respond to people whose goal is to embarrass me. It's a waste of time that could be better spend elsewhere.

[Seleucas]

Can't say I'm that shocked; there are people who say ALL of the victims are in Hell.

[Des-Bal]

As I said, I don't respond to people whose goal is to embarrass me. It's a waste of time that could be better spend elsewhere.

If your time was valuable you would be somewhere else, if you don't want to answer the question just say that.

[Mavorpen]

I don't think you can generalize about all evangelicals since there are certainly some calm evangelicals like William Lane Craig. Most of the time he is much calmer than his opponent.

No, he's not. Usually both sides are equally as calm.

However, you could certainly say that many evangelicals are "fiery", but I hope you would realize that atheists are also quote vitriolic in some places (youtube, reddit, etc).

Because no one can call them out on it. The internet allows all the teens to rage with no worry about being punched in the face.

[Milks Empire]

That complicates things.

Yeah...it gets on my nerves sometimes but I deal with it.

I'm the only one in my family that goes, but that was my call and nobody else's. I go because I want to. If you're being forced to... the people making you go are 110% missing the point.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Evangelicals and their fiery irrational and emotional condemnations of non-Christians have done more to hurt Christianity (note I don't use 'church' here) than anything else I can think of off the top of my head, at least recently.

I don't think you can generalize about all evangelicals since there are certainly some calm evangelicals like William Lane Craig. Most of the time he is much calmer than his opponent.

However, you could certainly say that many evangelicals are "fiery", but I hope you would realize that atheists are also quote vitriolic in some places (youtube, reddit, etc).

That's a fair point, I should've specified "some/a number of/etc." Evangelicals instead of generalizing them all.

And yes, some atheists share the same hysterical proselytizing they condemn Christians for.

[Mavorpen]

Prove it. Name them.

Again, provide examples.

As I said, I don't respond to people whose goal is to embarrass me. It's a waste of time that could be better spend elsewhere.

So you're admitting you're full of shit. You're just embarrassing yourself.

[Shnercropolis]

let this man be boiled in his own feces. Amen.

[Norstal]

That's really bad. My parents don't make me go to Church. They don't even bother me with religion. We just don't talk about it, and sometimes when we do, it's a calm discussion. None of the, "ACCEPT JESUS OR BURN!" shit.

The underlined is the way it should be.

Evangelicals and their fiery irrational and emotional condemnations of non-Christians have done more to hurt Christianity (note I don't use 'church' here) than anything else I can think of off the top of my head, at least recently.

Father Anderson is a pretty awesome evangelical though.

Really, if you're going to to full fundy-mode, at least you should be awesome whilst doing it.

[Locyrmor]

Does god know what decision you'll make based on certain stimuli? If he doesn't he's not omniscient, he's not even a very good at reading people.

That's assuming determinism, which assumes that free-will is false in the first place.

God knew Adam and Eve would eat the forbidden fruit if he didn't he's not omniscient. The same can be applied to any scenario.

Except that Adam and Eve made their own decisions, implying free will.
If you hold that they could not have acted differently in the same situation, then you would be claiming that there is no free-will, which I don't think would logically lead to free-will and omniscience being contradictory.

So you're admitting you're full of shit. You're just embarrassing yourself.

I never admitted anything, I just don't argue with those who I see as trolls. If you are going to blame anyone, blame yourself.

[Pretty Awesome Persons]

Yeah...it gets on my nerves sometimes but I deal with it.

I'm the only one in my family that goes, but that was my call and nobody else's. I go because I want to. If you're being forced to... the people making you go are 110% missing the point.

Funny thing is, my parents always say that Jesus is a gentleman who doesn't go into your heart unless you want him to

[Inzijard]

Yeah...it gets on my nerves sometimes but I deal with it.

I'm the only one in my family that goes, but that was my call and nobody else's. I go because I want to. If you're being forced to... the people making you go are 110% missing the point.

I feel bad for non-believers who are forced into the church environment. It does nothing but create tension, and it's true, they are 110% missing the point.

God is entirely a voluntary decision. Unlike atheism (check out Stalin, c. 1930), God does not seek to be dumped on people, who are coerced into his teachings. If an individual has a quarrel with God, that's between them and God. It is nobody's place to interfere, for better or for worse, unless they request it.

[Des-Bal]

Does god know what decision you'll make based on certain stimuli? If he doesn't he's not omniscient, he's not even a very good at reading people.

That's assuming determinism, which assumes that free-will is false in the first place.

God knew Adam and Eve would eat the forbidden fruit if he didn't he's not omniscient. The same can be applied to any scenario.

Except that Adam and Eve made their own decisions, implying free will.
If you hold that they could not have acted differently in the same situation, then you would be claiming that there is no free-will, which I don't think would logically lead to free-will and omniscience being contradictory.

Simple question, does god know what you'll do before you'll do it? Did God know that dangling the forbidden fruit in front of Adam and Eve while serpents were about would cause them to eat it? If he didn't he's not omniscient, or even very smart.

[Grenartia]

I see it like this:

God knows all, and has given us free will. He knows everything we will consider doing, and knows the consequences of every possible action and reaction. Essentially, He plans for everything we might do, as well as for every possible action/reaction on the part of everybody else. Hard to adequately explain, but suffice it to say that it is infinitely more complex than dominos.

Think of it more as knowing every possible opening move in a game of chess, as well as every move in response, and so on.

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying.

1. Does god know what decision you'll make based on certain stimuli? If he doesn't he's not omniscient, he's not even a very good at reading people.

2. Did god create the universe? If he did then he created all the stimuli.

3. God knew Adam and Eve would eat the forbidden fruit if he didn't he's not omniscient. The same can be applied to any scenario.

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. He has a plan. Somehow, He would've influenced circumstances to make his plan happen if they refused to eat the fruit.

Funny, the most devout people I know are the most bigoted.

"Love your neighbor" is one of Jesus' primary teachings. If these people are truly "devout" then they cannot be bigoted.

Actually, when they think that an act of bigotry is somehow an act of love, then yes, one can be a devout Christian bigot.

The first instance of this that comes to my mind is when devout parents have children who come out to them, and they ship the kids off to 'pray away the gay' camps, where the children are emotionally, and often physically and mentally abused, or worse, when the parents themselves emotionally and physically abuse the kids, in such a way to 'de-gayify' them.

[Mavorpen]

God is entirely a voluntary decision. Unlike atheism (check out Stalin, c. 1930), God does not seek to be dumped on people, who are coerced into his teachings. If an individual has a quarrel with God, that's between them and God. It is nobody's place to interfere, for better or for worse, unless they request it.

What does Stalin have to do with anything?

[Milks Empire]

I'm the only one in my family that goes, but that was my call and nobody else's. I go because I want to. If you're being forced to... the people making you go are 110% missing the point.

Funny thing is, my parents always say that Jesus is a gentleman who doesn't go into your heart unless you want him to

Which makes said behavior all the more bizarre...

God is entirely a voluntary decision. Unlike atheism (check out Stalin, c. 1930), God does not seek to be dumped on people, who are coerced into his teachings.

Ha! Ha ha! Ha ha ha! Ask the Indians of the former Spanish colonies in the Americas about that!