I Find This Disgusting, Does NationStates?

[The Nuclear Fist]

Fundamentalist shows himself to be a massive cunt. Can't say I'm shocked.

I would rather you didn't use one of my favorite words as a pejorative.

Fundamentalist?

[The Nuclear Fist]

More often than not, the worst aspects of the world began with benign intentions.

the saying does go, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

True words.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Fundamentalist shows himself to be a massive cunt. Can't say I'm shocked.

I would rather you didn't use one of my favorite words as a pejorative.

Massive?

Edit: Damn, beaten to the punch(line).

[Tekania]

Fundamentalist shows himself to be a massive cunt. Can't say I'm shocked.

I would rather you didn't use one of my favorite words as a pejorative.

Massive...
Shocked.....
Fundamentalist....
Shows....
Cunt....

[Farnhamia]

I would rather you didn't use one of my favorite words as a pejorative.

Massive...
Shocked.....
Fundamentalist....
Shows....
Cunt....

The last, which you knew quite well, O Bottom Gun.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I would rather you didn't use one of my favorite words as a pejorative.

Massive...
Shocked.....
Fundamentalist....
Shows....
Cunt....

I'm betting on the last one.

Although, my second guess would be "shocked."

EDIT: Darn it, now it looks like I copied Farn's post.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Massive...
Shocked.....
Fundamentalist....
Shows....
Cunt....

The last, which you knew quite well, O Bottom Gun.

It does roll of the tongue quite nicely.

[Stedicules]

that's right though, don't christians only go to heaven when they die? or do other people go to heaven too?

[Blackwing Coast]

Still not as bad as the Westboro Baptist Chruch, but only barely.

Personally, I believe in reincarnation.

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

Isn't this consistent with Christian belief, that you accept Jesus and go to heaven when you die or reject him and go to hell? This is the dogma, I don't see this as different than what is regularly preached.

Yes, but they don't do it after a tradgedy like this.

... and? Something like this should be a reminder to Christians - life is short, and you never know when it's your time. Believe in Christ and act like it.

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

ITT: Christian Pastor Reaffirms Christian Doctrine, Is A Vile Bastard.

[Nidaria]

that's right though, don't christians only go to heaven when they die? or do other people go to heaven too?

Besides a Baptism of Water for Christians, non-Christians can obtain Heaven through a Baptism of Blood (if they die for the Faith) or through a Baptism of Desire (if they live a good life and through no fault of their own do not know of the Church). Arguably, non-Christians in the theater might have obtained a Baptism of Blood.

[Northern Dominus]

that's right though, don't christians only go to heaven when they die? or do other people go to heaven too?

Besides a Baptism of Water for Christians, non-Christians can obtain Heaven through a Baptism of Blood (if they die for the Faith) or through a Baptism of Desire (if they live a good life and through no fault of their own do not know of the Church). Arguably, non-Christians in the theater might have obtained a Baptism of Blood.

Die for the faith? There was no dying for the faith, they weren't martyrs. They were victims, victims of a single madmans rampage because somebody didn't think to look into why he was buying enough weapons ammo armor and bomb-making materials to start a private war.

Of course if that's what it would take for the innocent victims of this madman to get into heaven then your notion of a god, just like the pastor who used free speech, is an asshole.

[Nidaria]

Besides a Baptism of Water for Christians, non-Christians can obtain Heaven through a Baptism of Blood (if they die for the Faith) or through a Baptism of Desire (if they live a good life and through no fault of their own do not know of the Church). Arguably, non-Christians in the theater might have obtained a Baptism of Blood.

Die for the faith? There was no dying for the faith, they weren't martyrs. They were victims, victims of a single madmans rampage because somebody didn't think to look into why he was buying enough weapons ammo armor and bomb-making materials to start a private war.

Of course if that's what it would take for the innocent victims of this madman to get into heaven then your notion of a god, just like the pastor who used free speech, is an asshole.

If they were innocent, as I hope, they would get into Heaven (through the baptism of desire). Only if they were guilty of an unforgiven grievous offense would they be condemned to Hell. Also, watch the blasphemy.

[Adafdfadfasdf]

Die for the faith? There was no dying for the faith, they weren't martyrs. They were victims, victims of a single madmans rampage because somebody didn't think to look into why he was buying enough weapons ammo armor and bomb-making materials to start a private war.

Of course if that's what it would take for the innocent victims of this madman to get into heaven then your notion of a god, just like the pastor who used free speech, is an asshole.

If they were innocent, as I hope, they would get into Heaven (through the baptism of desire). Only if they were guilty of an unforgiven grievous offense would they be condemned to Hell. Also, watch the blasphemy.

The Abrahamic god is an asshole. Have you ever actually read the Book of Job? His own fan-fiction shows him as the bad guy.

[Northern Dominus]

Die for the faith? There was no dying for the faith, they weren't martyrs. They were victims, victims of a single madmans rampage because somebody didn't think to look into why he was buying enough weapons ammo armor and bomb-making materials to start a private war.

Of course if that's what it would take for the innocent victims of this madman to get into heaven then your notion of a god, just like the pastor who used free speech, is an asshole.

If they were innocent, as I hope, they would get into Heaven (through the baptism of desire). Only if they were guilty of an unforgiven grievous offense would they be condemned to Hell. Also, watch the blasphemy.

I think their greatest desire in those moments was to get the hell away form the maniac up front with a rifle and a seemingly endless magazine from which death spewed.

And as far as innocence is concerned well that depends on the definition. Most people would consider innocence to be innocent of killing people, or raping them, or any seriously grievous things. However some people consider fornication out of wedlock and pursuing natural amorous activities that don't exactly conform to a strict radical definition of "love". So again if that is the vision of a god we're talking about, then that god is still an asshole, just like Jerry Newcombe, is an asshole. Furthermore I'll blaspheme as I see fit thank you very much.

Now am I tarring and feathering all clergy officials with the same brush? Hell no, I'm willing to wager serious money that a majority of religious figures from the community of Aurora, Colorado mobilized the second they could in order to console the survivors of the massacre and the grieving families regardless of their particular dogma or individual beliefs. Now THAT is the work of a divine being that I can support.

[Inzijard]

Now am I tarring and feathering all clergy officials with the same brush? Hell no, I'm willing to wager serious money that a majority of religious figures from the community of Aurora, Colorado mobilized the second they could in order to console the survivors of the massacre and the grieving families regardless of their particular dogma or individual beliefs. Now THAT is the work of a divine being that I can support.

I think it's the work of a divine being that we all want to support, but nobody views God in that light. When anyone brings up the word "God," this is the kind of topic their mind defaults to: a tragic loss of life and the senseless interjection of a religious figure. It's very unfortunate, but people like Jerry Newcombe are almost entirely the reason why religion is so heavily frowned upon by society.

I enjoy legitimate apologetics. I will discuss and debate with people on a personal level for hours, but in these circumstances it can be very difficult to make God look good when this is the kind of atmosphere that surrounds him. I respect Nidaria's faith and integrity, and I respect Northern Dominus' honesty and intent. As much as I negatively regard the atheist community, I feel that a lot of their spite—anger, even, let's be honest—is warranted based on what they hear and believe about God. People like Newcombe, who may be an honest man with no harmful intent, paint a distasteful picture and one that, quite frankly, people just don't want to hear.

I can't blame the honest atheist. Modern religion is fairly messed up, which is why I don't even associate with the term. I am, however, avowedly faithful, and believe in the personal relationship between self and God. It's nobody's place to question that, on anyone's behalf. I just wish that atheists would give God the benefit of the doubt every now and then and religious fanatics would back off a bit. Nothing gets done when we're all at each others' throats.

[Neutraligon]

So then Jesus is in hell?

I was talking about this.

No, he's in heaven. Still weird.

Edit :

You said it all, thank u. Also, Catholic is Christian, some ppl dont realise that, but it was the first sect of Christianity.

The first sect was gnosticism. It was even worse, good thing they are all dead. It can however be considered as a lesser heresy.

Actually I was asking since Jesus was born a Jew, and while he was baptized, he remained Jewish. Technically then he would go to hell wouldn't he?

[Northern Dominus]

Now am I tarring and feathering all clergy officials with the same brush? Hell no, I'm willing to wager serious money that a majority of religious figures from the community of Aurora, Colorado mobilized the second they could in order to console the survivors of the massacre and the grieving families regardless of their particular dogma or individual beliefs. Now THAT is the work of a divine being that I can support.

I think it's the work of a divine being that we all want to support, but nobody views God in that light. When anyone brings up the word "God," this is the kind of topic their mind defaults to: a tragic loss of life and the senseless interjection of a religious figure. It's very unfortunate, but people like Jerry Newcombe are almost entirely the reason why religion is so heavily frowned upon by society.

I enjoy legitimate apologetics. I will discuss and debate with people on a personal level for hours, but in these circumstances it can be very difficult to make God look good when this is the kind of atmosphere that surrounds him. I respect Nidaria's faith and integrity, and I respect Northern Dominus' honesty and intent. As much as I negatively regard the atheist community, I feel that a lot of their spite—anger, even, let's be honest—is warranted based on what they hear and believe about God. People like Newcombe, who may be an honest man with no harmful intent, paint a distasteful picture and one that, quite frankly, people just don't want to hear.

I can't blame the honest atheist. Modern religion is fairly messed up, which is why I don't even associate with the term. I am, however, avowedly faithful, and believe in the personal relationship between self and God. It's nobody's place to question that, on anyone's behalf. I just wish that atheists would give God the benefit of the doubt every now and then and religious fanatics would back off a bit. Nothing gets done when we're all at each others' throats.

Except I'm not an atheist...well I don't think I am. At best I'm an agnostic, I dunno if there's a divine being or beings that exist but I don't pretend to know for sure one way or another like the ultra-religious.

What I do resent however is the notion that divine being, which apparently knows and sees all, would deny innocent victims of a senseless act of brutality from getting into its glee club because they didn't believe hard enough or at all. Surely a being such as that would be wiser than all of the narrow ideological fanatics in the world and realize that innocence is innocence, and goodness of character trumps outright piousness any day of the week.

[Des-Bal]

My World Religions professor told me a story about his days in a religious school. They would go out and do stuff with a local church helping the youth groups and such until one day a young man in all black came in and opened fire on everyone inside the church. The community rallied to help the victims and a big event was held supported by local bhuddists, hindus, muslisms, and jews to remember the people who died. The pastor walked up to the stage, thanked everyone for their kindness, and said that every single non-christian in the building was going to hell.

I am no longer surprised by Christian's capacity to disgust me.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Still not as bad as the Westboro Baptist Chruch, but only barely.

Personally, I believe in reincarnation.

How do you explain the population of the earth increasing?

[Hamste]

Still not as bad as the Westboro Baptist Chruch, but only barely.

Personally, I believe in reincarnation.

How do you explain the population of the earth increasing?

In the reincarnation theory animals usually have souls too, when an animal dies if it was good it moves up to a better body if it was evil then it moves down a body, now whether humans are close to the best body or not is up to argument. Also reincarnation never says anything about other planets life forms so it is possible for them to reincarnate on earth. Of course this is just one form of reincarnation there are different arguments on it.

[Grenartia]

To be honest, I'm not really surprised. In my freshman year of high school, I went to a Baptist school. That year, we had two students (both of who I considered to be friends) die in car accidents about 6 months apart.

The staff used both incidents as an opportunity to save souls for Christ. Essentially, they said that we couldn't really know whether they were truly saved or were just faking it (which I can totally understand somebody doing there, as openly admitting to not being saved would make one susceptible to being witnessed to by the staff and some of the students, which would get really annoying), and proceeded with descriptions of Hell, in particular making heavy usage of the parable involving Lazarus and the rich man.

I personally found it to be in rather bad taste, especially to the friends and families of the deceased (it was a fairly small school, in a rural area, so most of the student body were related to each other somehow), and felt that they could've saved the preaching for until everybody had stopped greiving.

[Locyrmor]

Many of you don't seem to understand Christian doctrine at all, juuuuust saying. Not intending this to be an insult or anything, it's just that many atheists pretty much get all of their stuff from the wrong sources--people with an agenda.

The reason we can't go to heaven normally is because we all suck. Nobody's perfect.

Jesus died in our place to satisfy the fact that we all deserve to die. Faith in him is the only way to receive the gift.

That begs the question of whether or not people who have never heard of Jesus go to heaven. You could say that a) they never would have believed even if they got the chance or b) they can be saved if they realize they are sinful beings and repent.

You guys are jumping on a pastor for reaffirming Christian doctrine in a somewhat, I would agree, insensitive manner. But this reaction is exactly what I would expect from somewhere like /r/Atheism, and please don't tell me you consider them role models...

Actually I was asking since Jesus was born a Jew, and while he was baptized, he remained Jewish. Technically then he would go to hell wouldn't he?

People are not saved based on semantics. A maximally great being (God) does not require saving.

[Inzijard]

Except I'm not an atheist...well I don't think I am. At best I'm an agnostic, I dunno if there's a divine being or beings that exist but I don't pretend to know for sure one way or another like the ultra-religious.

What I do resent however is the notion that divine being, which apparently knows and sees all, would deny innocent victims of a senseless act of brutality from getting into its glee club because they didn't believe hard enough or at all. Surely a being such as that would be wiser than all of the narrow ideological fanatics in the world and realize that innocence is innocence, and goodness of character trumps outright piousness any day of the week.

The simple answer there is free will. God afforded man the freedom of choice, and it's not something he's going to go back on. Free will has created greed, free will has created murder, and free will created atheism. Free will and social ignorance also created distasteful ways of conveying religion, but I think we've been there, done that.

The most prevailing argument I face when discussing God's "benevolence" with agnostics is the destructive, inhuman nature of this world and how He appears to be doing nothing about it. What people fail to realize is that destruction and inhumanity is the product of man itself.

A man with God has a moral focal point and accountability. He does not lie, cheat, steal, or kill, because his faith in God and his morality prohibit him from doing so. A man without God, raised in the belief that life is meaningless, godless, and temporary, has no reason to remain accountable to anyone or anything. This is the dangerous man, who lies, cheats, steals and, sadly, kills.

This man then looks at the world and watches his cities burn, and then spits at the prospect of God, who could have stopped everything. But God would not intervene, because he gave this man free will. He gave the man a choice, and the man chose to forsake God to enjoy his life however he pleased. People were hurt, people were lost, and people were left hopeless because this man reveled in the fact that there was no God to hold him back.

Well, I'm not really here to preach to you (though it looks as though I have). My point is simply that humanity destroys itself. If the world does not want God, then that's their choice to make, but God is not going to step in and say "hey now, this is going to end badly" every time someone picks up a gun.

All the talk surrounding the Aurora incident deeply saddens me, and I do not wish to offend anyone. If I have, you have my sincerest apologies. I know there are legitimate people out there, regardless of their beliefs, and I just seek to shed a little light on what I feel God actually means, without the lens of a fanatic.