Repeal the 2nd Amendment

[Not Safe For Work]

Suicide bombers aren't following the psychology of the multiple murderer - they are following the psychology of the terrorist and the martyr.

I believe they are more following the psychology of the martyr, terrorist is just the title people give to them when they commit their act of mass murder by strapping a bomb to themselves or fly a plane into a building.

No - the psychology of terrorism is entirely different to the psychology of either the murderer or the vandal - the purpose is NOT to kill people or destroy property. Those things are incidental.

The purpose driving the psychology of terrorism, is to cause other people to change their opinions or actions, based on fear.

The guy in the theater was not a terrorist, or a martyr. He didn't want to die for his cause, and he wasn't intending to use fear to institute some kind of paradigm shift. He just wanted to make a lot of live people into a lot of dead people, at his own hand.

[Wikkiwallana]

Boo.
hoo.


If they way they built it hadn't been totally fucked with, white male landowners would still be the only voters, black people would still be enslaved, the poor and elderly would still be dying in droves every winter, and the country would be completely broke. Times change, deal with it.


Nope.


You mean like the Constitution says it should?


One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong~





I have. They don't say anything about the reason for keeping guns being fear of the feds.


So you admit that they are, in fact, the boss of you?



That says.


Why what? I didn't ask why again, I made a suggestion.

Your lack of knowledge when it comes to American history and hair splitting is painful to witness. You're obviously not American so trying to explain it to you will be like trying to talk to Helen Keller before she could communicate. *prays you know who Helen Keller is*

I fear anything I say will be insufficient to your liking and/or something will be lost in translation, therefore I think I will now ignore anything else you say to me in this thread. Good day to you... or evening depending on location.

Actually, if you knew American history, you'd see my sig proclaims me to be American. And what hairs did I split?

[Diadem]

The NRA can talk all they want about how "guns don't kill people ... people kill people" but at the end of the day if the guns weren't manufactured in the first place, the point would be moot.

Since no court seems willing to put a logical legal interpretation on the 2nd amendment to the US Constitution, it should just be outright appealed.

In every tragedy there is a silver lining - and if this Colorado shooting catastrophe brings us any closer to banning recreational ownership of assault rifles and handguns in the US, then maybe something can come of it.

It's just too easy to get a hold of a gun.

Liberals always have this knee-jerk reaction after a shooting. Simple minds and all.

If firearms were banned...made illegal....against the law.....that'd surely stop the criminals right? Criminals who by definition of criminal BREAK THE LAW.

No. All you would do is disarm citizens and stop them from defending themselves.

[Greed and Death]

The NRA can talk all they want about how "guns don't kill people ... people kill people" but at the end of the day if the guns weren't manufactured in the first place, the point would be moot.

Since no court seems willing to put a logical legal interpretation on the 2nd amendment to the US Constitution, it should just be outright appealed.

In every tragedy there is a silver lining - and if this Colorado shooting catastrophe brings us any closer to banning recreational ownership of assault rifles and handguns in the US, then maybe something can come of it.

It's just too easy to get a hold of a gun.

I just knew someone would bring this up. One guy shooting a bunch of folks with weapons not meant for personal defense doesn't mean all personal firearms should be banned

An AR 15 can be used in Defense, and I would like to go on record as saying it is not an assault rifle like the media keeps repeating. An assault rifle by definition has select fire and can fire full auto ( or burst), such weapons are tightly controlled and require at least 10,000 dollars to get.

[North Calaveras]

I just knew someone would bring this up. One guy shooting a bunch of folks with weapons not meant for personal defense doesn't mean all personal firearms should be banned

An AR 15 can be used in Defense, and I would like to go on record as saying it is not an assault rifle like the media keeps repeating. An assault rifle by definition has select fire and can fire full auto ( or burst), such weapons are tightly controlled and require at least 10,000 dollars to get.

media is retarded when it comes to firearms

[Not Safe For Work]

I would also like to add that banning certain types of guns is pointless.

For instance, Mutsuo Toi killed 30 of his neighbors with a sword an axe and a shotgun in Japan in 1938.

What matters is where the shooting takes place, when, and how much time the killer as.

I have to point out, as an argument that pointing out 'banning guns is pointless'... using a story of a guy who killed people with an axe, a sword and a gun is not entirely effective.

[Transhuman Proteus]

Vigilante justice. What could possibly go wrong.

Frankly, I'm not interested in internet tough guy bravado. Maybe that's just me.

How am I the tough guy? I'm
Just stating that people will
Be afraid to commit crime if
People around them had
ConcealedCarryWeapons.

Like you are tough >.>

That's why the US crime rates are significantly better than other Western nations with more stringent gun control laws.

Wait...

Bombs are pretty rare in crimes of violence. Most of the really effective ways that might work to kill people are.

A lot of us remember Aum Shinrikyo releasing Sarin gas in the Tokyo subway. That has the potential to be thousands of times more lethal than a lone gunman - and yet, it's incredibly rare.

The psychology of multiple murder seems to be about witnessing it close enough to 'enjoy' it, but not so close that you actually get your hands dirty. And guns are the perfect vehicle for that desire.

I think suicide bombers would argue that.

The problems with bombs is, if you aren't an expert on making and using them a lot can go wrong - you can quite easily end up killing no one but yourself (or no one at all and then you get the crap kicked out of you and you're dragged off to jail).

Plus a bomb doesn't think and isn't selective. If all goes to plan it kills a lot of people, but getting your home made bomb into position is hard, hence why some people strap it to themselves to get it where it needs to be.

Plus, a suicide bomber likely has other motivations as well. They want to kill people, and then there is the martyr complex on top of that (and other psychological considerations).

I'm sorry, you have armored transport vehicles, aircraft, satellites, unmanned drones, a coordinated command structure, infrared wall penetrating scopes, long range missiles, tac-ops units, intelligence services, real-time updated mission control centers, and a navy?

If it ever came to that we would have stolen tanks and aircraft, we certainly do have a structured command center, I have 20 generation 3 IR scopes from EOtech that can do far better than that, we can buy long range missiles from the black market, one of our top marksmen is an ex-green beret, dont know about intelligence services but i'll take my chances, and we dont have a navy but since we're in land we dont have to worry about that for now. Now, what do you got for dessert?

Yes, I'm sure if anything strikes fear into a trained militaries hearts it is the thought of untrained (or retired) people tooling around in stolen aircraft.

Since untrained civilians with guns and armed with a "Do it yourself Guerrilla Warfare" manual are so deadly I'm surprised the US isn't getting soundly defeated in every conflict it gets into.

Ever Read the Archaist cook book? I have. Go read it and tell me you can't fine 4 ways to blow up a Striker with teh stuff you can find in a garage and kitchen.

I have and I know it is mostly outdated or crap - assuming you have an actual cookbook and not one of the number of toothless versions put out to trick dumb-asses that want to build bombs (note how many successful anarchist attacks there have been all thanks to the cookbook).

The whole fear at this super deadly world where some motivated guys can Magyver a trained military/police force to death with what they have lying around the house - if it is all so easy to do why isn't it happening so much more frequently?

Because it isn't easy to do. It is just the fantasies of armchair Rambos. The guys who do try it end up dead or in jail, usually without putting on a display that makes one think "gee, if enough people were doing this together they could beat the British army"!

Heh, it is all reminding me of some of the documentaries from a couple of years back when you had militias crying about second amendment solutions. I remember one where one of the more serious militias was practicing storming compounds (using an abandoned prison).

Bunch of mostly fat guys running around with the best guns money could by with the best tactics the internet and war fetish books could provide. They really convinced me they could kill a lot of people - namely themselves and innocents. Not once did they look like anything that would bother an actual, trained military.

[Chyeknovostan Republic]

The NRA can talk all they want about how "guns don't kill people ... people kill people" but at the end of the day if the guns weren't manufactured in the first place, the point would be moot.

Since no court seems willing to put a logical legal interpretation on the 2nd amendment to the US Constitution, it should just be outright appealed.

In every tragedy there is a silver lining - and if this Colorado shooting catastrophe brings us any closer to banning recreational ownership of assault rifles and handguns in the US, then maybe something can come of it.

It's just too easy to get a hold of a gun.

Destroy a central part of our culture, yeah you can definatley leave the US, I don't care if your republican or democrat.

I think it's a wonderful idea! Then Russia will come for you РОДИНА!

[Not Safe For Work]

The NRA can talk all they want about how "guns don't kill people ... people kill people" but at the end of the day if the guns weren't manufactured in the first place, the point would be moot.

Since no court seems willing to put a logical legal interpretation on the 2nd amendment to the US Constitution, it should just be outright appealed.

In every tragedy there is a silver lining - and if this Colorado shooting catastrophe brings us any closer to banning recreational ownership of assault rifles and handguns in the US, then maybe something can come of it.

It's just too easy to get a hold of a gun.

Liberals always have this knee-jerk reaction after a shooting. Simple minds and all.

A 'knee-jerk' reaction just means the reaction is predictable - not wrong.

How is the immediate 'rar, second amendment' response to this 'liberal knee-jerk reaction' any less of a 'knee-jerk' reaction?

[North Calaveras]

Destroy a central part of our culture, yeah you can definatley leave the US, I don't care if your republican or democrat.

I think it's a wonderful idea! Then Russia will come for you РОДИНА!

wed be fucking ourselves already, Russia wouldn't need to come lol

[Wikkiwallana]

Again, what the hell are you talking about?


How many people can do so without blowing themselves up in the process?

Because it's not like they have thermal scanning capabilities, explosive weapons, or people need to go outside at some point.

Two things any country are going to commit to an invasion.

Sucks for you then.

Gee, I thought the invading nation would just fire them blindly…

That's what I thought.

Source?

Still better than one guy in a basement with a ham radio.

Most of America's population is very close to the coast.

1: Everyone who has read the Archaist's cook book and followed the safety instructions for one.

Hardly. That's just going to increase accidental explosions.

2: Thermal is easily beaten sorry. Insulated clothes and a fire extinguisher makes you invisible.

And your house? You going to fully insulate it too? Because living in it means running electronics, which give off heat, and the whole place will be warmer than the unoccupied ones come winter.

3: Balls to the wall's for them

What?

4: Not really. As said up a few numbers. Insulation and cold things make you invisible

Temporarily. They warm up too, eventually.

5: Me to. Small world. Problem with beam riding? Its LOS only

Right, just ignore the possibility of a preprogramed trajectory to hit high value targets.

6: Then why say it

Because the invading force will certainly have them.

7:Vietnam

I don't believe the US is covered in horrendously thick jungle growth.

8: You do realize that a form of real time right

A form that is nothing compared to the computer equipped multi-person command center an actual military is going to be using.

9: But then you got the 65% That isn't...O wait that means "Most" Isn't by the coast.

Hmm, so my estimation was a bit off. I'm curious how interested people will be in resisting after one or both seaboards have been bombed harder than London during the Blitz.

[7185514]

Here's the simple problem, you take away guns, people use swords, take away swords, they use steak knives, take away steak knives...it all ends with violence using hands[choking someone for instance]. Now, would you rather die [in a homicide situation] over the course of six agonizing minutes [choking] or within 2 seconds [bullet to the head]?

[Greed and Death]

Look this was a sad sad event.

But really it was not something that can be prevented. Norway had its shooter despite stricter gun laws than here. If someone this intelligent and cunning sought to get a gun he would get one even in the face of an outright ban.

Yeah, he got his fire arms legally, but that really can not be prevented, as of yet he showed no signs of mental illness and did not have any run ins with the law except a speeding ticket. The right to bear arms is a right you do not make people jump through red tape to exercise their rights. Because I am sure the Republicans would love to be able to require potential voters to prove they are sane before voting. What affects one right can affect them all.

Alan Morton Dershowitz has the right idea you do not use the courts to read rights out of the constitution.

[Not Safe For Work]

No. All you would do is disarm citizens and stop them from defending themselves.

That's not true.

That's not 'all you would do', at all. You would also make it considerably harder for criminals to obtain weapons, and much less likely that someone would go on one of these gun-fueled killing sprees - since they are a combination of a two factors (the sudden 'break' that sets the person on the spree, and the availability of guns to do it).

[Not Safe For Work]

Here's the simple problem, you take away guns, people use swords, take away swords, they use steak knives, take away steak knives...it all ends with violence using hands[choking someone for instance]. Now, would you rather die [in a homicide situation] over the course of six agonizing minutes [choking] or within 2 seconds [bullet to the head]?

Maybe I'm weird, but I'd rather other people weren't killing me, at all.

But if they're going to - well screw it, make them work for it.

[Wikkiwallana]

I'm curious how the black market is going to get these purchases past the people busy invading you. And how many tanks and aircraft do you propose you will steal from the people using them on you? They tend to guard them. Finally, while your rag tag band of super-commando militia may be inland, most of the population is not out of shelling range.

you severely underestimate American militia capabilities

these aren't iraqi children with flip-flops and AK-47's, many are veterans of conflicts or have had at least some military training.

But we aren't talking about the American military, we are talking about the America militia. The retirees may have had training, but do they still have the equipment that allowed them to put that training to best use? How do they plan to compensate for the dead weight that is the average armchair survivalist? How many are still of fighting age? How many have kept up their discipline since being discharged? How many were dishonorably discharged for being too crazy or too lazy for duty?

[Faith Hope Charity]

Yes... lets ban all guns, therefore only criminals will have them... great idea.

Cuz remember.. when you only have seconds, the cops will be minutes away.

Who needs self defense anyways?

[Wikkiwallana]

We license the shit out of the ability to operate one though. Which is my proposal for guns. The fact that people I'm talking to still think I want to completely ban guns does not bodewell for their reading comprehension skills.

we license the shit out of guns more than we do out of cars already...

Source? I'd like to see some side by side comparisons, if you don't mind.

[Wikkiwallana]

And how many of those do you have, exactly?

Me? None. My friends Gramps? 1 and 7 RPG's.

I meant the plural you of civilian America.

[The UK in Exile]

Here's the simple problem, you take away guns, people use swords, take away swords, they use steak knives, take away steak knives...it all ends with violence using hands[choking someone for instance]. Now, would you rather die [in a homicide situation] over the course of six agonizing minutes [choking] or within 2 seconds [bullet to the head]?

whats the average police response time for the area? if its less than six minutes....

an interesting thing that cam out of one thread is that the bill of rights was never intended to apply to states. meaning the original intent was that states could ban or limit the ownership of firearms. this fact seems to support a repeal in favour of letting the states have their own say.

[North Calaveras]

we license the shit out of guns more than we do out of cars already...

Source? I'd like to see some side by side comparisons, if you don't mind.

umm well for one you need to be at least 18 yrs or older to have a firearm, 21 or older to have a side arm, theirs the red tape, background check and waiting periods involved most of the time(not all the time, there are loop holes), hell then there is state regulations, sometimes they won't let you have a firearm even if it's legal because you might be in a "may carry zone" where you need permission from the sherrif's department to even carry it around if im not mistaken.

i can be 16 and drive a car...

[Transhuman Proteus]

Here's the simple problem, you take away guns, people use swords, take away swords, they use steak knives, take away steak knives...it all ends with violence using hands[choking someone for instance]. Now, would you rather die [in a homicide situation] over the course of six agonizing minutes [choking] or within 2 seconds [bullet to the head]?

I was quite young at the time, but Australia introduced far more stringent gun control laws following a massacre at a holiday town.

I distinctly remember gun advocates using that argument. Some time on it still doesn't seem to have materialized (maybe Australians are just less violent or to lazy to switch to more physical methods of killing).

[Dark Side Messiahs]

I believe they are more following the psychology of the martyr, terrorist is just the title people give to them when they commit their act of mass murder by strapping a bomb to themselves or fly a plane into a building.

No - the psychology of terrorism is entirely different to the psychology of either the murderer or the vandal - the purpose is NOT to kill people or destroy property. Those things are incidental.

The purpose driving the psychology of terrorism, is to cause other people to change their opinions or actions, based on fear.

The guy in the theater was not a terrorist, or a martyr. He didn't want to die for his cause, and he wasn't intending to use fear to institute some kind of paradigm shift. He just wanted to make a lot of live people into a lot of dead people, at his own hand.

I understand that, I don't consider the man in Colorado to be a terrorist or martyr myself as his actions were to simply destroy life. Suicide bombers, while terrorists, consider their act of mass murder to be noble as it's a means to further their cause and to martyr themselves an honorable act.

You do bring up some excellent points though, too bad we didn't talk too much about the mentality of terrorists in my Psychology class otherwise I might be able to counter it with something other than my own thoughts on the matter.

[Gun Manufacturers]

The NRA can talk all they want about how "guns don't kill people ... people kill people" but at the end of the day if the guns weren't manufactured in the first place, the point would be moot.

Since no court seems willing to put a logical legal interpretation on the 2nd amendment to the US Constitution, it should just be outright appealed.

In every tragedy there is a silver lining - and if this Colorado shooting catastrophe brings us any closer to banning recreational ownership of assault rifles and handguns in the US, then maybe something can come of it.

It's just too easy to get a hold of a gun.

No.

It'd be political suicide for politicians to make a serious attempt at repealing the Second Amendment. Not to mention, 3/4 of the states would have to ratify it once it passed Congress, and many states (including my home state of Connecticut, which is somewhat anti-firearm even though we have a long history of firearms manufacturing in this state) have the right to bear arms in their state constitutions.

It'll never pass.

[Wikkiwallana]

I'm curious how the black market is going to get these purchases past the people busy invading you. And how many tanks and aircraft do you propose you will steal from the people using them on you? They tend to guard them. Finally, while your rag tag band of super-commando militia may be inland, most of the population is not out of shelling range.

Its called smuggling, genious. And its as easy as you think, and its been done during the Afghan war with the Soviets.

In a mountain region filled with honeycomb caves. Across the vast expanse of America, only parts of which are mountainous, and with fewer cave systems for its size, it's going to be a different matter. If you can even contact the people you want to buy from. Cell towers, and cable, phone and power lines are going to be prime targets, because it is to the invaders' advantage to make communication as hard as possible.