Repeal the 2nd Amendment

[Raumm]

California has some the strictest gun laws in America. They ban magazine capacities over 10 rounds, flash hiders, bayonets, folding stocks, pistol grips and thumb hole stocks on rifles and shotguns, barrel shrouds, .50 caliber rifles, pistols with magazines outside of the grip, magazine fed shotguns, and some guns by name. They do not issue concealed carry licenses in urban areas. They have a waiting period from purchase to pick up. Even with all these laws the violent crime rate remains high.

[Lessnt]

California has some the strictest gun laws in America. They ban magazine capacities over 10 rounds, flash hiders, bayonets, folding stocks, pistol grips and thumb hole stocks on rifles and shotguns, barrel shrouds, .50 caliber rifles, pistols with magazines outside of the grip, magazine fed shotguns, and some guns by name. They do not issue concealed carry licenses in urban areas. They have a waiting period from purchase to pick up. Even with all these laws the violent crime rate remains high.

We can still purchase single shot rifles.Bolt actions.Pump action.Break action.Semi auto as long as it only has a stock and a barrel.

Any military style weapon is banned without a bullet button and they are getting laws to include banning bullet button weapons.

A bullet button is where you use a tool.(such as a bullet) to release the magazine.
Thus making it a fixed magazine by the definition set out by the law.(which says you need a tool to detach the magazine for it to be a fixed magazine)

You cant find any production semi auto pistol carbines in california that are legal.

[The UK in Exile]

California has some the strictest gun laws in America. They ban magazine capacities over 10 rounds, flash hiders, bayonets, folding stocks, pistol grips and thumb hole stocks on rifles and shotguns, barrel shrouds, .50 caliber rifles, pistols with magazines outside of the grip, magazine fed shotguns, and some guns by name. They do not issue concealed carry licenses in urban areas. They have a waiting period from purchase to pick up. Even with all these laws the violent crime rate remains high.

by high do you mean slightly above average?

[Lessnt]

California has some the strictest gun laws in America. They ban magazine capacities over 10 rounds, flash hiders, bayonets, folding stocks, pistol grips and thumb hole stocks on rifles and shotguns, barrel shrouds, .50 caliber rifles, pistols with magazines outside of the grip, magazine fed shotguns, and some guns by name. They do not issue concealed carry licenses in urban areas. They have a waiting period from purchase to pick up. Even with all these laws the violent crime rate remains high.

by high do you mean slightly above average?

Above average with all of our laws?
How is that possible you would think being in a police state you would have a tiny amount of violent crime.

Social welfare spending is the reason for the decline in violence.
From yoga to have ex gang members become cops and preach the dangers of gang life.
The news says so.

[Veddai Hegemony]

California has some the strictest gun laws in America. They ban magazine capacities over 10 rounds, flash hiders, bayonets, folding stocks, pistol grips and thumb hole stocks on rifles and shotguns, barrel shrouds, .50 caliber rifles, pistols with magazines outside of the grip, magazine fed shotguns, and some guns by name. They do not issue concealed carry licenses in urban areas. They have a waiting period from purchase to pick up. Even with all these laws the violent crime rate remains high.

by high do you mean slightly above average?

And look how low the rate is in hilariously loose lawed VA. And DC is right the fuck next door. It almost speaks for itself.

[The UK in Exile]

by high do you mean slightly above average?

And look how low the rate is in hilariously loose lawed VA. And DC is right the fuck next door. It almost speaks for itself.

I'm sure we could both cherry pick examples to our convience.

and I'm sure the Loose Gun controls in Virgina do nothing to undermine the strict ones in DC.

[Wikkiwallana]

In that case, per gun owner and per public carry license would mostly be the same in the US. In other countries, that wouldn't necessarily be the same.

Maybe, except that not all states are like that. It's on a serious state by state basis. For example, Alaska allows CC with no permit, but California is a de facto no-carry state.

I'm not talking about concealed, I'm talking about carry period.

[Veddai Hegemony]

Maybe, except that not all states are like that. It's on a serious state by state basis. For example, Alaska allows CC with no permit, but California is a de facto no-carry state.

I'm not talking about concealed, I'm talking about carry period.

Yes, but those are the two most extreme examples. I was attempting to show the available variety of laws. California, you basically cannot carry a gun(theoretically they're a "may issue state, but they essentially refuse to issue permits for the most part). In Virginia you can openly carry whatever the fuck you want, in Alaska, you can do it concealed, in Colorado, you have to get a permit, and the list goes on, and the rules are different for open and CC by state. It's COMPLICATED.

[Veddai Hegemony]

And look how low the rate is in hilariously loose lawed VA. And DC is right the fuck next door. It almost speaks for itself.

I'm sure we could both cherry pick examples to our convience.

and I'm sure the Loose Gun controls in Virgina do nothing to undermine the strict ones in DC.

DC has been forced to loosen up, but they're still among the most restricted. Non Residents are permitted to purchase long guns and handguns, but in order to get a handgun(which bangers want) they have to get a report from VA State Police. I'm trying to find out what exactly the report entails right now.

EDIT: VA State police must check ALL available criminal records of non-residents. Which means Federal, and all other states, and DC, so it won't stop straw purchases, but it will flag you if you're giving a fake name, or trying to hide a past crime somewhere else.

Further EDIT: This is up to a ten day process, so it's not fast or easy.

[Big Jim P]

I'm not talking about concealed, I'm talking about carry period.

Yes, but those are the two most extreme examples. I was attempting to show the available variety of laws. California, you basically cannot carry a gun(theoretically they're a "may issue state, but they essentially refuse to issue permits for the most part). In Virginia you can openly carry whatever the fuck you want, in Alaska, you can do it concealed, in Colorado, you have to get a permit, and the list goes on, and the rules are different for open and CC by state. It's COMPLICATED.

Of course this means that no one in Cali carries.

So much for gun control.

[Mk Steele]

Actually the reason is because California has such strict gun laws is because it's Democratic to the core, it's an unfortunate trend, I live in Illinois and the gun laws here while not as strict as Cali, it's still bothersome. As far as I know we are the only state that requires one to get a Firearms Ownership ID card (FOID) before being able to buy a gun, and then if you live in Chicago you need to get a Chicago Firearms License along with the FOID as well as registering your weapons with Chicago PD as well as paying $50-100 every so years so you can continue owning firearms within city limits. BUT before that you also need to take classes at a registered firearms dealer to learn how to shoot a gun and take the safety course before you can buy a gun, (If you live in Chicago that is.)

Extremely bothersome if you ask me.

Criminals get illegal guns and bypass all that right?

Exactly, they don't care about the laws, if new gun laws come up, they can just find someone in the black market willing to sell them a piece.

[Big Jim P]

Criminals get illegal guns and bypass all that right?

Exactly, they don't care about the laws, if new gun laws come up, they can just find someone in the black market willing to sell them a piece.

And then the only people with guns are criminals, something gun control freaks refuse to see.

[Veddai Hegemony]

Yes, but those are the two most extreme examples. I was attempting to show the available variety of laws. California, you basically cannot carry a gun(theoretically they're a "may issue state, but they essentially refuse to issue permits for the most part). In Virginia you can openly carry whatever the fuck you want, in Alaska, you can do it concealed, in Colorado, you have to get a permit, and the list goes on, and the rules are different for open and CC by state. It's COMPLICATED.

Of course this means that no one in Cali carries.

So much for gun control.

It goes down to the city/county level in Cali. You CAN get a permit in some places, but in others, unless you are say...famous, or rich....you're not gettin the permit. And even then maybe not.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Exactly, they don't care about the laws, if new gun laws come up, they can just find someone in the black market willing to sell them a piece.

And then the only people with guns are criminals, something gun control freaks refuse to see.

Not really. I see a part of regulation to prevent weapons from falling wholesale into the hands of crims. It is never going to be 100% effective as with most things but a drastic reduction in the availability would go a long way in mitigating the risk.

I have no issue with people having guns if they are fit and proper and can demonstrate that on a regular basis.

[Big Jim P]

And then the only people with guns are criminals, something gun control freaks refuse to see.

Not really. I see a part of regulation to prevent weapons from falling wholesale into the hands of crims. It is never going to be 100% effective as with most things but a drastic reduction in the availability would go a long way in mitigating the risk.

I have no issue with people having guns if they are fit and proper and can demonstrate that on a regular basis.

Just like getting a license to drive? I could live with that.

[Veddai Hegemony]

Not really. I see a part of regulation to prevent weapons from falling wholesale into the hands of crims. It is never going to be 100% effective as with most things but a drastic reduction in the availability would go a long way in mitigating the risk.

I have no issue with people having guns if they are fit and proper and can demonstrate that on a regular basis.

Just like getting a license to drive? I could live with that.

Or fuck that noise. You don't need a license to speak freely or practice religion. Fundamental rights are fundamental rights.

[Wikkiwallana]

Just like getting a license to drive? I could live with that.

Or fuck that noise. You don't need a license to speak freely or practice religion. Fundamental rights are fundamental rights.

What makes guns a fundamental right?

[Big Jim P]

Or fuck that noise. You don't need a license to speak freely or practice religion. Fundamental rights are fundamental rights.

What makes guns a fundamental right?

The second Amendment. You know, the whole subject of this thread.

[Veddai Hegemony]

Or fuck that noise. You don't need a license to speak freely or practice religion. Fundamental rights are fundamental rights.

What makes guns a fundamental right?

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed? For those of you who believe the government grants your rights. For people who believe your rights are inherent, because you're a person, and you have the right to defend yourself as effectively and safely as possible.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Not really. I see a part of regulation to prevent weapons from falling wholesale into the hands of crims. It is never going to be 100% effective as with most things but a drastic reduction in the availability would go a long way in mitigating the risk.

I have no issue with people having guns if they are fit and proper and can demonstrate that on a regular basis.

Just like getting a license to drive? I could live with that.

Along those lines sure. I hate reading about a little kid who somehows gets his mits on a gun and shoots his playmate...seems to me in many ways that there are a fair few people who do not take the ownerships of guns seriously.

Of course the real challenge is preventing crims from getting their hands on guns. Something the NRA could take a positive and active part in as well. And this is also where the debate needs to be as well.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Just like getting a license to drive? I could live with that.

Or fuck that noise. You don't need a license to speak freely or practice religion. Fundamental rights are fundamental rights.

Yeah yeah...we already went thought your concept on 'natural rights' earlier. Which were shown to be utter bollocks.

[The UK in Exile]

What makes guns a fundamental right?

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed? For those of you who believe the government grants your rights. For people who believe your rights are inherent, because you're a person, and you have the right to defend yourself as effectively and safely as possible.

if its granted by the government how is it fundamental?

[Big Jim P]

Just like getting a license to drive? I could live with that.

Along those lines sure. I hate reading about a little kid who somehows gets his mits on a gun and shoots his playmate...seems to me in many ways that there are a fair few people who do not take the ownerships of guns seriously.

Of course the real challenge is preventing crims from getting their hands on guns. Something the NRA could take a positive and active part in as well. And this is also where the debate needs to be as well.

I have always said that with any right comes responsibility. Something that gun nuts tend to forget.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

What makes guns a fundamental right?

The second Amendment. You know, the whole subject of this thread.

No you see Veddai Hegemony does not recognise that rights are granted via the state. He has this absurd idea that one has 'natural rights'.

[Veddai Hegemony]

Just like getting a license to drive? I could live with that.

Along those lines sure. I hate reading about a little kid who somehows gets his mits on a gun and shoots his playmate...seems to me in many ways that there are a fair few people who do not take the ownerships of guns seriously.

Of course the real challenge is preventing crims from getting their hands on guns. Something the NRA could take a positive and active part in as well. And this is also where the debate needs to be as well.

Criminals with guns make all of us look bad. Fuckheads who are too stupid to store their gun properly make us all look bad. The NRA are REALLY down on people like that. It makes things worse for the rest of us. It just looks odd because they focus on blaming morons who do those things, rather than guns. People don't like it when somebody says "It's not because the man owned a gun, it's because he owned it, and acted like a fuckwit at the same time."