Repeal the 2nd Amendment

[Wikkiwallana]

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Never happened:
http://www.snopes.com/military/reinwald.asp

Also, that quip is ridiculously sexist.

[Wikkiwallana]

Socialism has a lot to do with it actually. Its government take over of most of everything (Including your guns.)

Nope, try again.

[Wikkiwallana]

This thread's still going?

Twice as many people are killed per firearm owned per capita in shooting sprees in the UK alone than US over the last twenty years. Europe has seen dozens of shooting sprees in the last thirty years.
~190 spree deaths in the States versus 29 in the UK, and 88.8 guns per 100 citizens compared to 6.2

It amounts to 2.2 times as many deaths, actually.

Mind sharing where you got those numbers?

[Veddai Hegemony]

Just like we did such a great job of with the bootleggers, and now the drug traffickers?

To be fair, booze and drugs don't set off metal detectors or show up very clearly on package x-rays.

Great! This brings me back to a point I was gonna make earlier!

So, weapons smuggled into the country. Wanna guess how many shipping containers actually get checked for guns and other such stuff? I guarantee you guess high.

[Wikkiwallana]

We have approximately 14.5 times as many guns as the UK. We have roughly 6.5 times as many spree related deaths(which is the key term in this instance) as the UK, in terms of absolute numbers. Assuming that your logic held true we should have 14.5 times as many spree related deaths, since more guns, means more lunatics shooting up places. However, when we look at the populations, we find that the number of spree related deaths tracks fairly close to population(4.9x pop, 6.5x absolute number of deaths). Looking at this data we can determine that lunatics who go out and kill bunches of people are about as common in each population. Maybe slightly more here, but not enough to cause a huge panic about it.

The math is only that simple under the assumption that everyone that owns a gun owns only one.

[Veddai Hegemony]

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Purchasing guns over the Internet should require some form of license or identification. It is needed when buying guns in person.

It's...pretty damn hard to buy a gun over the internet. Once you've paid for it, you still have to get it shipped to a licensed dealer. It's not that easy. True story.

[Veddai Hegemony]

We have approximately 14.5 times as many guns as the UK. We have roughly 6.5 times as many spree related deaths(which is the key term in this instance) as the UK, in terms of absolute numbers. Assuming that your logic held true we should have 14.5 times as many spree related deaths, since more guns, means more lunatics shooting up places. However, when we look at the populations, we find that the number of spree related deaths tracks fairly close to population(4.9x pop, 6.5x absolute number of deaths). Looking at this data we can determine that lunatics who go out and kill bunches of people are about as common in each population. Maybe slightly more here, but not enough to cause a huge panic about it.

The math is only that simple under the assumption that everyone that owns a gun owns only one.

Well, yeah, but still. It would get hideously complicated otherwise. And I'm honestly not good enough to start playing too many funny games with numbers.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

The math is only that simple under the assumption that everyone that owns a gun owns only one.

Well, yeah, but still. It would get hideously complicated otherwise. And I'm honestly not good enough to start playing too many funny games with numbers.

<--- for the honesty re maths

[Paddy O Fernature]

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Purchasing guns over the Internet should require some form of license or identification. It is needed when buying guns in person.

Apparently you do not know how it works, so allow me to fix this:

Lets say I go to an online site (lets use Gunbroker.com as an example) and order a firearm.. lets say I place an order for an American classic, the M14.

I fill out an account for the site, and register a credit card to that account that is under my name. I then have to fax/attach a local registered and licensed FFL dealer near where I live that will accept that firearm transfer from the seller online. This dealer will also check my ID and make sure I am who I say I am.

I then pay for the weapon and pay to have it shipped to the FFL dealer. The dealer then charges a small fee for transfer/processing as he must fill out all the required paperwork and background checks.

If everything checks out, I then walk out with my new rifle and enjoy hitting targets at ranges up to 1,000 meters on my property.

If not, the gun will be returned to sender, and I will still have to pay shipping & handling fees.

[Wikkiwallana]

You indeed don't understand the effect of gun control in a country with many guns. All the guns go to criminals and not law abiding citizens. Go figure.

Which is why you deal with the criminals after... using the Singaporean model.

Fuck the Singaporean model. Draconian punishments are ass backwards.

[Wikkiwallana]

Which is why you deal with the criminals after... using the Singaporean model.

That means big government. Very big government. Americans hate that.

I don't hate big government…

[Wikkiwallana]

Saying "I will hide my illegal weapons from the government" isn't helping your argument. People who think they have the right to fight the legitimate authority of the government are exactly the ones who shouldn't be armed in the first place.

The legitimate authority of the government is not inherent in the government, but in the will of those so governed to maintain the status quo. Never forget that. Attempting to ban weapons is and would legitimately be seen as a betrayal of the people by those we have chosen to lead us, and can be met only with the dissolution of the government, whether by ballot or by force.

Except that the only way a ban could possibly come down in this country is with mass popular support for a new Constitutional Amendment. Any other route would be a non-starter.

[Paddy O Fernature]

You do know, that you can multi quote in a single response right?

Seriously guy, you should start doing that and save us all the headache of a having a half page of replies to skip over.

[Wikkiwallana]

By who's lights? By yours, no one needs to own a gun, I'm sure. By mine, the people that should own guns are those willing to lay down their lives in the name of liberty. If that makes me unhinged, or dangerous, then so be it. I am myself, I can be no other.

Liberty is the freedom to walk down the street to vote without being stopped for your unchangeable features. Maintaining six assault rifles is not liberty.

It is, however, Liberty City.

[Wikkiwallana]

If the state democratically decided to take away my freedom of speech I would either comply with the law while lobbying for change in legislation or leave. You obey every law regardless of how you feel about it.

So you would blindly follow horrible laws enacted, just because it's the law?

Scary stuff right here.

Note the underlined. That doesn't sound like blind obedience to me.

[Wikkiwallana]

And in the real world your rights are defined by the government through the representation of the electorate. You do not have 'natural rights' because there is no such thing. All rights are an artificial construct that succeed or fail on their merit.

Fuck...this is Civics 101 stuff!

Our rights are PROTECTED by the government. That is its entire purpose for existence. All rights are inherent in a person, it is not a question of opinion, it is a statement of fact.

Alright, go hang out on a desert island for a while, and see how well your inherent rights stand up to Mother Nature.

[Wikkiwallana]

If the second amendment was repealed it would be a state issue not a nationwide ban on guns.

The repeal of the second amendment would be grounds for armed resistance in any case. It would be a direct assault on our rights.

Do you know how the amendment process works?

[Paddy O Fernature]

The repeal of the second amendment would be grounds for armed resistance in any case. It would be a direct assault on our rights.

Do you know how the amendment process works?

Do you know how multi quote works?

[Wikkiwallana]

It would be unwise to repeal the second ammenment, because people should be allowed to have weapons if they want to. People are already losing more and more of their freedom in America, and that freedom needs to be preserved, not destroyed.

What Freedoms are we losing?

Hopefully this qoute explains my point:

"Benjamin Franklin wrote
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

It's only like the dozenth or some time it's been quoted in this thread. It's meaningless without defining what liberties are "essential", and what makes safety "temporary".

[Wikkiwallana]

is it essential?

That s a good question, but since you're not so clear what you mean by 'essential' I'll give you two answers.
1. It is absoultely essential that citizens be given the choice to have any non-explosive, non-nuclear, non-biological, not fully automatic weapon.

2. It is absolutely essential that the people should never be required to have a weapon.

Why are they essential?

[Wikkiwallana]

That sounds like an awful lot of trouble to go through for a mugging, however.

Hey. If you're gonna be a worthless bum, you may as well be good at it.

I guess so.

[Wikkiwallana]

To be fair, booze and drugs don't set off metal detectors or show up very clearly on package x-rays.

Great! This brings me back to a point I was gonna make earlier!

So, weapons smuggled into the country. Wanna guess how many shipping containers actually get checked for guns and other such stuff? I guarantee you guess high.

I'm going to guess "not enough".

[Wikkiwallana]

The math is only that simple under the assumption that everyone that owns a gun owns only one.

Well, yeah, but still. It would get hideously complicated otherwise. And I'm honestly not good enough to start playing too many funny games with numbers.

Too bad then, because life is hideously complicated.

[FranksFreedom]

Looks like this may become a reality, God

http://www.infowars.com/bombshell-un-gu ... -ban-guns/

[Milks Empire]

Looks like this may become a reality, God
http://www.infowars.com/bombshell-un-gu ... -ban-guns/

Infowars?
...