Repeal the 2nd Amendment

[Wikkiwallana]

Source? I'd like to see some side by side comparisons, if you don't mind.

umm well for one you need to be at least 18 yrs or older to have a firearm, 21 or older to have a side arm, theirs the red tape, background check and waiting periods involved most of the time(not all the time, there are loop holes), hell then there is state regulations, sometimes they won't let you have a firearm even if it's legal because you might be in a "may carry zone" where you need permission from the sherrif's department to even carry it around if im not mistaken.

i can be 16 and drive a car...

And what is in that red tape? How is the background check performed? And what sorts of regulations do states have?

[North Calaveras]

umm well for one you need to be at least 18 yrs or older to have a firearm, 21 or older to have a side arm, theirs the red tape, background check and waiting periods involved most of the time(not all the time, there are loop holes), hell then there is state regulations, sometimes they won't let you have a firearm even if it's legal because you might be in a "may carry zone" where you need permission from the sherrif's department to even carry it around if im not mistaken.

i can be 16 and drive a car...

And what is in that red tape? How is the background check performed? And what sorts of regulations do states have?

varies from state to state but im pretty damn sure its a lot harder to legally aquire a firearm than it is a honda civic lol

[Not Safe For Work]

In fact, i would go so far to say that if there were armed people in the colorado theater other that the crazy gunman, ALOT less people wouldve died, cuz he wouldve been taken down, not be allowed to rampage against everyone there.

Not a realistic conclusion - quite the opposite, in fact.

The guy controlled the space - including visibility. He smoke-bombed the theater, and then picked targets. Then he headed outside, and picked-off targets as they left the venue.

The most likely result of having additional armed civilians in the theater - would have been an increase in the death-toll, as have-a-go heroes shot other innocent civilians and/or other vigilantes.

[The UK in Exile]

the day we repeal the second amendment is the day all these tyrants or some shit come in and take over the country.
Lets say North Korea takes over the United States and succeeds. All the Civialians are running amock trying to hide from the Koreans.
What can the people do without guns? They cant win if they dont have guns. Would you rather have a freedoms but many deaths, or no freedom and millions of deaths?

Point made.

was the point that a grasp on reality isn't a requirement to post?

[Sardine World]

the day we repeal the second amendment is the day all these tyrants or some shit come in and take over the country.
Lets say North Korea takes over the United States and succeeds. All the Civialians are running amock trying to hide from the Koreans.
What can the people do without guns? They cant win if they dont have guns. Would you rather have a freedoms but many deaths, or no freedom and millions of deaths?

Point made.

are you trying to make fun of the pro-gun people on here?

im saying that we need guns
not making fun of people
i didnt read any of the posts cept the title

[Soviet Russia Republic]

Banning guns like AK-74s, I would agree with, but not all guns. Law abiding citizens should be able to have a gun to defend themselves against the determined criminals who are going to get guns one way or the other.

[North Calaveras]

are you trying to make fun of the pro-gun people on here?

im saying that we need guns

alright then...should use a better example than north korea though...

[The UK in Exile]

are you trying to make fun of the pro-gun people on here?

im saying that we need guns

to stop the government taking peoples guns.

[Wikkiwallana]

In a mountain region filled with honeycomb caves. Across the vast expanse of America, only parts of which are mountainous, and with fewer cave systems for its size, it's going to be a different matter. If you can even contact the people you want to buy from. Cell towers, and cable, phone and power lines are going to be prime targets, because it is to the invaders' advantage to make communication as hard as possible.

you would be surprised how rural and mountainous you can get in the US, just my county ALONE could harbor MANY insurgents.

I'm aware of how mountainous the US can be. But there are more plains than mountains.

[Dark Side Messiahs]

Here's the simple problem, you take away guns, people use swords, take away swords, they use steak knives, take away steak knives...it all ends with violence using hands[choking someone for instance]. Now, would you rather die [in a homicide situation] over the course of six agonizing minutes [choking] or within 2 seconds [bullet to the head]?

Considering with the proper technique you can kill someone with your hands almost as fast as with a gun I think the point is somewhat moot.

[Not Safe For Work]

Because the power distribution between authority and the populace is completely asymmetric.

If your group of hypothetical survivalists do more than mutter, or pop their heads outside their basement - their heads will get popped like grapes.

again...how do you know this,

You shouldn't be having this discussion if this is something you don't know.

and what situation are they in? foreign army or civil war?

Either. Modern militaries versus survivalists. Totally asymmetric.

[Sardine World]

im saying that we need guns

alright then...should use a better example than north korea though...

china and russia

[North Calaveras]

you would be surprised how rural and mountainous you can get in the US, just my county ALONE could harbor MANY insurgents.

I'm aware of how mountainous the US can be. But there are more plains than mountains.

so? the american plains don't have that much population anyways, most of it is east/west coasts which do have lots of forests, i would hate having to fight an insurgent army hiding in the foothills of california or the sierra nevada.

[Wikkiwallana]

whats the average police response time for the area? if its less than six minutes....

an interesting thing that cam out of one thread is that the bill of rights was never intended to apply to states. meaning the original intent was that states could ban or limit the ownership of firearms. this fact seems to support a repeal in favour of letting the states have their own say.

Tenth Amendment.

Banning firearms in individual states would be an overstep into federal authority, thus violating the Tenth Amendment.

Uh, he just proposed letting the states do it, did you even read the post?

[Hathradic States]

I'm aware of how mountainous the US can be. But there are more plains than mountains.

so? the american plains don't have that much population anyways, most of it is east/west coasts which do have lots of forests, i would hate having to fight an insurgent army hiding in the foothills of california or the sierra nevada.

I'd hate fighting an insugency in NYC or LA. THey can barely keep the gangs in line now, imagine how hard it would be with a massive, organized effort.

[Wikkiwallana]

I meant the plural you of civilian America.

AT least 7 i know that much.

My point is, which do you think there are more of: civilian owned anti-tank weapons or military owned tanks in a force strong enough to have already beaten the US military and reached US soil?

[North Calaveras]

again...how do you know this,

You shouldn't be having this discussion if this is something you don't know.

and what situation are they in? foreign army or civil war?

Either. Modern militaries versus survivalists. Totally asymmetric.

foreign army who is probably crippled beyond belief from the war it just had with a superpower has to deal with a massive insurgency that has probably gotten its hands on its militarys advanced military hardware(Javelines anyone?) they would be retarded to try to fight the insurgency

civil war? military defects to the civilians after enough deaths.

[Transhuman Proteus]

I'm curious how the black market is going to get these purchases past the people busy invading you. And how many tanks and aircraft do you propose you will steal from the people using them on you? They tend to guard them. Finally, while your rag tag band of super-commando militia may be inland, most of the population is not out of shelling range.

you severely underestimate American militia capabilities

these aren't iraqi children with flip-flops and AK-47's, many are veterans of conflicts or have had at least some military training.

You're not exactly selling us on the capabilities of the militia. How old are these veterans? How long have they been out of the service? What state of readiness have they kept themselves in for a guerrilla conflict against an actual military force? How much is "at least some military training"? Compared to actual acting soldiers that is?

How are they with training? Managing the untrained aspects of the militia - the armchair generals and rambos? What with the whole "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link" thing.

I'm curious how the black market is going to get these purchases past the people busy invading you. And how many tanks and aircraft do you propose you will steal from the people using them on you? They tend to guard them. Finally, while your rag tag band of super-commando militia may be inland, most of the population is not out of shelling range.

Its called smuggling, genious. And its as easy as you think, and its been done during the Afghan war with the Soviets.

Because the circumstances there are sufficiently replicable in the US to allow that to work. You'll be attacked by soviets (with all the applicable corruption, mismanagement etc that brought), aided by a US level nation, and have vast cave systems and inhospitable terrain to aid you in hiding your stolen aircraft and tanks.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Good luck getting the US government to become pacifists.

Arms Trade Treaty will be signed soon

No international treaty can override the US Constitution (see Reid vs Covert).

[Not Safe For Work]

You are right.. it will be more difficult to acquire.. but not impossible... so you are logic fail..

That doesn't follow. I didn't say it would be impossible. The only logic failure there, seems to be that you failed to grasp the logic.

criminals will still have guns

Some might, sure.

... and be able to use them against a defenseless populace..

No guns, not defenseless.

thats NOT a society i would EVER want to live in, thank you very much.

Now unless everyone has the ability to have an armed police officer on the corner at all times...

You win, I'll concede this point - I agree, we need armed police officers on the corner at all times.

[The UK in Exile]

You shouldn't be having this discussion if this is something you don't know.



Either. Modern militaries versus survivalists. Totally asymmetric.

foreign army who is probably crippled beyond belief from the war it just had with a superpower has to deal with a massive insurgency that has probably gotten its hands on its militarys advanced military hardware(Javelines anyone?) they would be retarded to try to fight the insurgency

civil war? military defects to the civilians after enough deaths.

realistically the american insurgents are going to fold like dixieland just heard Grant and Shermans favourite bar just closed.

[Wikkiwallana]

In fact, i would go so far to say that if there were armed people in the colorado theater other that the crazy gunman, ALOT less people wouldve died, cuz he wouldve been taken down, not be allowed to rampage against everyone there.

Which is why Jared Loughner was stopped by one of the people there with guns and didn't shoot 19 people. Oh wait…

[North Calaveras]

foreign army who is probably crippled beyond belief from the war it just had with a superpower has to deal with a massive insurgency that has probably gotten its hands on its militarys advanced military hardware(Javelines anyone?) they would be retarded to try to fight the insurgency

civil war? military defects to the civilians after enough deaths.

realistically the american insurgents are going to fold like dixieland just heard Grant and Shermans favourite bar just closed.

lol

but seriously, these two situations still leave the insurgents at a advantage over their enemys.

[Wikkiwallana]

Because the power distribution between authority and the populace is completely asymmetric.

If your group of hypothetical survivalists do more than mutter, or pop their heads outside their basement - their heads will get popped like grapes.

again...how do you know this, and what situation are they in? foreign army or civil war?

The hypothetical, since it was introduced, has been foreign army.

[The UK in Exile]

realistically the american insurgents are going to fold like dixieland just heard Grant and Shermans favourite bar just closed.

lol

but seriously, these two situations still leave the insurgents at a advantage over their enemys.

american military has only just discovered the stomach to be on the fun end of insurgency war. seriously doubt america is ready to be on the recieving end.