Jafas United wrote:Disserbia wrote:I'm not making up any situations, if you think I have made up a situation, then you clearly are not reading my posts. Additionally, I do think some of their policies constitute ethnic cleansing, some of their policies that are in effect right now or have been in effect in the past, things that actually took place. Whether or not you think these things constitute ethnic cleansing is your opinion (even though I disagree with you strongly) but the fact that they took place is not a debate...once again I didn't mention a situation to make the Israelis look like "the bad guys" because this is not battlefield 3 and I think anyone who looks at the conflict from that perspective is incredibly ignorant. I don't know where you even get the idea that I think that a group of people can be "bad guys" when most of them are civilians, especially when I never said anything of the kind. If you are equating my criticism of the IDF to that...honestly I expected a little more of you. Anyone that makes such a claim is obviously not interested in civil discourse. So next time read my posts instead of assuming I have a position that I never actually advocated and accusing me of "making" situations when I never dealt in specifics in the thread. Honestly my posts are not that long...just read.
You have repeatedly said that Israel is guilty of ethnic cleansing. Clearly, you're painting a picture where Israel, or more specifically, the IDF has the moral low ground. Correct?
Sure, you can say that Israel is in breach of international law with regards to the West Bank settlements, but to say that they're carrying out ethnic cleansing is beyond absurd. And something which you are yet to prove. If you can give me solid proof to the contrary, I'll apologize for wasting your time and retract everything I've said in this thread.
Meh, who am I kidding. I'm arguing with the same person who was carrying on about Israel being an apartheid state, after all.Disserbia wrote:I never said you did. I said you made up a hypothetical situation that makes no sense given the current situation today just to make an excuse to call the Palestinians bigoted and unreasonable when that is not even close to the situation on the ground. I don't say you said the Palestinians were guilty of ethnic cleansing, I said that it was unrealistic, distracting, and insulting. Now, unless you are going to stop putting words in my mouth and talking about alternate realities that have nothing to do with the topic of this thread, I don't think we have anything more to discuss.
Also, and this is critical making demands does not constitute ethnic cleansing, only carrying out policies of ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing, so no, no one's demands can ever constitute ethnic cleansing, only their actions.
I also never said that the Palestinians are bigoted and unreasonable. Their demands to completely remove the West Bank settlements, on the other hand, is.
And that is what exactly what I was saying. I never said the Palestinians are carrying out ethnic cleansing. All I said was that IF their demands came to fruition, it would be ethnic cleansing.
Jesus Christ. I hate repeating myself. But hey, repetition is the key to learning. The key to learning is repetition...
You accused me of making a situation to make Israel look like "the bad guys" when all I actually did was post my opinion about the IDF in general. That is not creating a false reality or dishonestly portraying them, that is called posting my opinion.
In addition you said that if the Palestinians demanded the settlements be removed that would be Ethnic Cleansing...however it would be no such thing, because they would not be carrying out an crime. You can't be charged with Ethnic Cleansing unless you are actually engaged in the act, so you are wrong to accuse Palestinians of Ethnic Cleansing just for setting terms for negotiation. Furthermore, even if the Palestinian's terms were met, unless they were the ones forcing settlers out of their homes they would not be guilty of ethnic cleansing. If Israel were to remove the settlements to meet Palestinian demands that is all on Israel, not on Palestine.
Furthermore, you can call my opinion absurd as much as you want but there is a sizable number of pundits, activists, scholars, politicians, and members of the general public that agree with me, so its not absurd, its actually a hotly debated issue, so in terms of portraying a situation dishonestly, you're the one that's guilty not me. Its fine if you don't agree with me, but trash talking without providing facts does nothing to prove your point. In fact your inability to remain civil makes it look like you're grasping at straws.
I'm not painting a warped picture of the IDF, I am critiquing their methods of defending their state because I think they are overaggressive. You assume many things about me, but most of what you assume is wrong, so when you're ready to have a civil discussion like a mature human being feel free to respond, until then, brush up on the definition of ethnic cleansing and stop talking in hyperbole.