Israeli Defense Forces steal water supplies from civilians

[Jafas United]

If you are going to talk about something in terms of law legality matters entirely. Since your hypothetical situation is extremely far from reality and legality has everything to do with legal definitions, I can't answer your question, and I don't know what you are trying to get me to admit, but this isn't the way to do it.

I'm not trying to get you to admit anything. I was merely pointing out the Palestinian PoV on the whole settlement issue. Which if it were to come into effect, would be ethnic cleansing. Plain and simple.

I know it's unrealistic, and thank God it is.

[The Pentidad God Kings of Resdayn]

It's becoming impossible to have any ties to the Christian faith because of shit like this...

I'm sorry, but Fuck Israel - Let them get exterminated. They ain't done nothing for anyone, as far as I'm concerned (especially if those who I'm talking about ARE Americans!). America doesn't need them helping them. They and their bullshit religion need to crawl back to Hell and have those who worship it dragged there in tow with it!

I'm not trying to say Germany should've made that nation a burning crater to Hell back when they had the chance in WW2 or anything, but it's times like this where I feel otherwise...

And for the record, I know just how evil and wrong all of this sounds. Still, Fuck Israel! Let them all be shot, killed, and gassed! That is all.

Can someone report this dude? he seems unstable

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

It's becoming impossible to have any ties to the Christian faith because of shit like this...

I'm sorry, but Fuck Israel - Let them get exterminated. They ain't done nothing for anyone, as far as I'm concerned (especially if those who I'm talking about ARE Americans!). America doesn't need them helping them. They and their bullshit religion need to crawl back to Hell and have those who worship it dragged there in tow with it!

I'm not trying to say Germany should've made that nation a burning crater to Hell back when they had the chance in WW2 or anything, but it's times like this where I feel otherwise...

And for the record, I know just how evil and wrong all of this sounds. Still, Fuck Israel! Let them all be shot, killed, and gassed! That is all.

Can someone report this dude? he seems unstable

Fris dealt with it on page 2.

Typical behaviour of Zionist scumbags. They stole even the land their state was built on, and now they are stealing water from the natives. Seems to come naturally for them, I guess...

You see, this is why supporting Palestine and opposing Israel is difficult, because the Nazis are on the same side as you.

[Terraius]

Even if the settlements were legal, its not really Ethnic cleansing because they arnt targeting a particular ethnic group as much as they are targeting a Palestinian community/demographic, and they especially dont have an official policy of homogenizing ethnicity in any particular area.

Honestly I think its an offensive misnomer, as it kinda downplays true ethnic atrocities like what we saw in the Balkans in the 90's. I think its safe to say there is a fine line between the two situations.

The settlements are targeting people on the basis of ethnicity actually, but its rather indirect. Its a completely ethnic issue, as what how one is effected by it is completely subject to their ethnicity. Ethnicity in this case as defined by the definition in the resolution on this particular law. I don't think its offensive at all. Honestly, the attrocities as a result of the Israel/Palestine conflict touch a greater number of people in a very direct way than what happened in the Balkans. Actually the reason I'm so impassioned on the subject of Israel/Palestine is because I see too many similarities between the two situations and am baffled and angered by the fact that people in the place to make a difference don't learn the lessons of history the first time.

I still maintain that 'Palestinian' is incorrectly labeled as an ethnicity. I met plenty of ethnic Arab/Syrian/Turk Israelis, and I saw my fair share of light skinned, caucasian-ish/Jew Palestinians. I dont believe this to be an ethnic issue as much as a clash of national identities if nothing else and further maintain that it is a slightly offensive misnomer to compare what is happening in Israel to Ethnic cleansing which is more appropriately demonstrated by the 90's Balkans, or perhaps the 20th century Asia Minor/Turkey.

But I digress

[Costa Fiero]

I agree with the point he was making in this thread because it is true. Just because I disagree with him on other issues (and you don't actually know his view so don't assume) doesn't mean I can't acknowledge the fact that I agree with him on this particular one. I also didn't say that the part of my post that was a separate paragraph had anything to do with his post, but was merely elaborating on my reason for agreeing with his post in this thread. As far as the ethnic cleansing bit, my knowledge of the conflict and similar practices by the IDF lead me to believe this act is one of many in a pattern of behavior. You can keep prying, but you won't succeed.

I also have a decent knowledge of this conflict and linking Bedouins with Palestinians isn't exactly a good measure. They aren't the same. Bedouins aren't exactly that well treated by the Israeli government, granted but to put them in the same boat as the Palestinians is particularly bad because although the government doesn't recognise their villages, they don't actively go out and put settlements in place of Bedouin villages, because they already live within Israel.

I've never advocated the harm of any civilians of any group, ever. Legitimate military targets are a whole different story.

Right. I'll believe it when I see it.

Such personal attacks and defamation of character will not be tolerated and I will seek legal counsel should you continue to do so.

Regards.

This is the internet. Threaten me as much as you want, but you won't get far. You can call the mods if you want, but my actions wouldn't even be considered "actionable" by them.

[Disserbia]

I agree with the point he was making in this thread because it is true. Just because I disagree with him on other issues (and you don't actually know his view so don't assume) doesn't mean I can't acknowledge the fact that I agree with him on this particular one. I also didn't say that the part of my post that was a separate paragraph had anything to do with his post, but was merely elaborating on my reason for agreeing with his post in this thread. As far as the ethnic cleansing bit, my knowledge of the conflict and similar practices by the IDF lead me to believe this act is one of many in a pattern of behavior. You can keep prying, but you won't succeed.

I also have a decent knowledge of this conflict and linking Bedouins with Palestinians isn't exactly a good measure. They aren't the same. Bedouins aren't exactly that well treated by the Israeli government, granted but to put them in the same boat as the Palestinians is particularly bad because although the government doesn't recognise their villages, they don't actively go out and put settlements in place of Bedouin villages, because they already live within Israel.

I've never advocated the harm of any civilians of any group, ever. Legitimate military targets are a whole different story.

Right. I'll believe it when I see it.

I wasn't linking Bedouins with Palestinians, the way Israel treats them is also in violation of International Humanitarian laws though.

Just to let you know, you're the one being bigoted here, not Srboslavija. To assume someone hold certain views just because of their nationality (and you actually don't know his nationality, so that's also an assumption) is incredibly stupid, plus you never know who will take offense to something when you write something offensive, so its generally just better to keep your mouth shut in such cases.

[Costa Fiero]

I wasn't linking Bedouins with Palestinians, the way Israel treats them is also in violation of International Humanitarian laws though.

Which, as I have posted before, have already acknowledged. However, as I have also already posted, the Israeli government generally tends to leave Bedouins alone. It's fairly rare that such actions are taken against them.

Just to let you know, you're the one being bigoted here, not Srboslavija. To assume someone hold certain views just because of their nationality (and you actually don't know his nationality, so that's also an assumption) is incredibly stupid, plus you never know who will take offense to something when you write something offensive, so its generally just better to keep your mouth shut in such cases.

I really don't give a flying rat's arse what you think. I know his nationality from other posts. It wasn't an assumption. I don't know where you got that idea from, but you accusations are false. Don't fling accusations if they can't stick.

[Wamitoria]

Damn it. Every time I want to start liking Israel, shit like this happens or Netanyahu shows up on American television and says something stupid.

[Yuktova]

I have no sympathy for the soldiers of any nation. Israel included. Adimmedly, this event doesn't help matters much.

[Grand Soviet Union]

Israel will always be a hotly debated issue liked by some hated by some. But lets be honest here. Should there be a two state solution with both an Israel and a Palestine all you would hear about is the continuous wars between the two. there never will be peace between the Israeli's and their Arab neighbors.

[Tmutarakhan]

Can't wait for the NSG Yankee Doodles to justify this one

I usually chime in on the pro-Israeli side-- but not this time.

[Disserbia]

I wasn't linking Bedouins with Palestinians, the way Israel treats them is also in violation of International Humanitarian laws though.

Which, as I have posted before, have already acknowledged. However, as I have also already posted, the Israeli government generally tends to leave Bedouins alone. It's fairly rare that such actions are taken against them.

Just to let you know, you're the one being bigoted here, not Srboslavija. To assume someone hold certain views just because of their nationality (and you actually don't know his nationality, so that's also an assumption) is incredibly stupid, plus you never know who will take offense to something when you write something offensive, so its generally just better to keep your mouth shut in such cases.

I really don't give a flying rat's arse what you think. I know his nationality from other posts. It wasn't an assumption. I don't know where you got that idea from, but you accusations are false. Don't fling accusations if they can't stick.

You don't have to care what I think, I'm just warning you that making such statements come off as bigoted, especially when you consider the fact that he said he would do no such thing. Assuming people are racist just because of their ethnic background is racist. So if you don't want people to think that you are, you shouldn't make statements like that.

[Disserbia]

If you are going to talk about something in terms of law legality matters entirely. Since your hypothetical situation is extremely far from reality and legality has everything to do with legal definitions, I can't answer your question, and I don't know what you are trying to get me to admit, but this isn't the way to do it.

I'm not trying to get you to admit anything. I was merely pointing out the Palestinian PoV on the whole settlement issue. Which if it were to come into effect, would be ethnic cleansing. Plain and simple.

I know it's unrealistic, and thank God it is.

Why would you even make up a situation just to make the Palestinians look like the bad guys. Lets talk about what is actually happening instead...in reality Palestinians are not carrying out ethnic cleansing.

[Cheveksim]

To hell with the idf!

This is completely uncalled for, and you've dishonoured all of the young men and women who are currently serving in the IDF. Be ashamed of yourself. As a former IDF soldier myself, I am offended and embarassed that we have people like you on this earth.

Now, about this issue. The Israeli Defense Force supposedly took water from nomads with no national allegiance, who were living on Israeli land. There is nothing wrong with this. The IDF requires water like everybody else, and they acquired it from a source that doesn't have any real right to it within Israel.

[Cheveksim]

I'm not trying to get you to admit anything. I was merely pointing out the Palestinian PoV on the whole settlement issue. Which if it were to come into effect, would be ethnic cleansing. Plain and simple.

I know it's unrealistic, and thank God it is.

Why would you even make up a situation just to make the Palestinians look like the bad guys. Lets talk about what is actually happening instead...in reality Palestinians are not carrying out ethnic cleansing.

Neither is Israel, my friend. The Government is simply using Israeli land how they would like. This is completely legal in Israel. Ethnic cleansing? Not even close. The IDF does not enter arab towns and kill all of the inhabitants. THAT, would be ethnic cleansing.

[Disserbia]

To hell with the idf!

This is completely uncalled for, and you've dishonoured all of the young men and women who are currently serving in the IDF. Be ashamed of yourself. As a former IDF soldier myself, I am offended and embarassed that we have people like you on this earth.

That is also completely uncalled for. If you're going to call someone out for being rude or inappropriate (which I agree with you - his comment was rude and inappropriate and the IDF is necessary for Israeli security and peace in the region) you should probably not make a rude and inappropriate comment back to them. Rise above it.

On a side note, as I've said, I recognize the necessity of the IDF and the courage and duty of the soldiers, but they do engage in some controversial acts and people are allowed to point that out. Not only is such criticism appropriate, but in fact I think it is beneficial for the IDF so that it can learn what others think and maybe figure out a way to do their job in a way that creates less controversy. Conflict arises because different entities try to justify wrongs they committed against other entities, the best way to achieve peaceful coexistence is to come to terms with reality and try to reach an understanding, there is nothing more detrimental to Israel's security than denial and hostility towards criticism.

[Disserbia]

Why would you even make up a situation just to make the Palestinians look like the bad guys. Lets talk about what is actually happening instead...in reality Palestinians are not carrying out ethnic cleansing.

Neither is Israel, my friend. The Government is simply using Israeli land how they would like. This is completely legal in Israel. Ethnic cleansing? Not even close. The IDF does not enter arab towns and kill all of the inhabitants. THAT, would be ethnic cleansing.

You can have your opinion, but I don't agree with you. Additionally, I was not addressing you, I was addressing a post that endeavored to create a situation that was not consistent with reality in an effort to make the Palestinians look guilty of ethnic cleansing when they were not. My post was refuting the idea that Palestinians were committing the crime of ethnic cleansing. Whether or not Israel is doing such things has nothing to do with this discussion. You had no reason to quote me, your point was irrelevant to the conversation.

[Jafas United]

I'm not trying to get you to admit anything. I was merely pointing out the Palestinian PoV on the whole settlement issue. Which if it were to come into effect, would be ethnic cleansing. Plain and simple.

I know it's unrealistic, and thank God it is.

Why would you even make up a situation just to make the Palestinians look like the bad guys. Lets talk about what is actually happening instead...in reality Palestinians are not carrying out ethnic cleansing.

Neither are the Israelis. Why are you making a situation to make the Israelis look like "the bad guys"?

And for the millionth time, all I am doing is explaining the repercussions of the Palestinian demand in regards to the West Bank settlements. How hard is that to understand?

[Jafas United]

You can have your opinion, but I don't agree with you. Additionally, I was not addressing you, I was addressing a post that endeavored to create a situation that was not consistent with reality in an effort to make the Palestinians look guilty of ethnic cleansing when they were not. My post was refuting the idea that Palestinians were committing the crime of ethnic cleansing. Whether or not Israel is doing such things has nothing to do with this discussion. You had no reason to quote me, your point was irrelevant to the conversation.

Honestly, do you read my posts? Like ever?

I never said the Palestinians were guilty of ethnic cleansing. I said their hypothetical demands could potentially end out as ethnic cleansing. Albeit a mild one.

[Disserbia]

Why would you even make up a situation just to make the Palestinians look like the bad guys. Lets talk about what is actually happening instead...in reality Palestinians are not carrying out ethnic cleansing.

Neither are the Israelis. Why are you making a situation to make the Israelis look like "the bad guys"?

And for the millionth time, all I am doing is explaining the repercussions of the Palestinian demand in regards to the West Bank settlements. How hard is that to understand?

I'm not making up any situations, if you think I have made up a situation, then you clearly are not reading my posts. Additionally, I do think some of their policies constitute ethnic cleansing, some of their policies that are in effect right now or have been in effect in the past, things that actually took place. Whether or not you think these things constitute ethnic cleansing is your opinion (even though I disagree with you strongly) but the fact that they took place is not a debate...once again I didn't mention a situation to make the Israelis look like "the bad guys" because this is not battlefield 3 and I think anyone who looks at the conflict from that perspective is incredibly ignorant. I don't know where you even get the idea that I think that a group of people can be "bad guys" when most of them are civilians, especially when I never said anything of the kind. If you are equating my criticism of the IDF to that...honestly I expected a little more of you. Anyone that makes such a claim is obviously not interested in civil discourse. So next time read my posts instead of assuming I have a position that I never actually advocated and accusing me of "making" situations when I never dealt in specifics in the thread. Honestly my posts are not that long...just read.

You can have your opinion, but I don't agree with you. Additionally, I was not addressing you, I was addressing a post that endeavored to create a situation that was not consistent with reality in an effort to make the Palestinians look guilty of ethnic cleansing when they were not. My post was refuting the idea that Palestinians were committing the crime of ethnic cleansing. Whether or not Israel is doing such things has nothing to do with this discussion. You had no reason to quote me, your point was irrelevant to the conversation.

Honestly, do you read my posts? Like ever?

I never said the Palestinians were guilty of ethnic cleansing. I said their hypothetical demands could potentially end out as ethnic cleansing. Albeit a mild one.

I never said you did. I said you made up a hypothetical situation that makes no sense given the current situation today just to make an excuse to call the Palestinians bigoted and unreasonable when that is not even close to the situation on the ground. I don't say you said the Palestinians were guilty of ethnic cleansing, I said that it was unrealistic, distracting, and insulting. Now, unless you are going to stop putting words in my mouth and talking about alternate realities that have nothing to do with the topic of this thread, I don't think we have anything more to discuss.

Also, and this is critical making demands does not constitute ethnic cleansing, only carrying out policies of ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing, so no, no one's demands can ever constitute ethnic cleansing, only their actions.

[Disserbia]

The settlements are targeting people on the basis of ethnicity actually, but its rather indirect. Its a completely ethnic issue, as what how one is effected by it is completely subject to their ethnicity. Ethnicity in this case as defined by the definition in the resolution on this particular law. I don't think its offensive at all. Honestly, the attrocities as a result of the Israel/Palestine conflict touch a greater number of people in a very direct way than what happened in the Balkans. Actually the reason I'm so impassioned on the subject of Israel/Palestine is because I see too many similarities between the two situations and am baffled and angered by the fact that people in the place to make a difference don't learn the lessons of history the first time.

I still maintain that 'Palestinian' is incorrectly labeled as an ethnicity. I met plenty of ethnic Arab/Syrian/Turk Israelis, and I saw my fair share of light skinned, caucasian-ish/Jew Palestinians. I dont believe this to be an ethnic issue as much as a clash of national identities if nothing else and further maintain that it is a slightly offensive misnomer to compare what is happening in Israel to Ethnic cleansing which is more appropriately demonstrated by the 90's Balkans, or perhaps the 20th century Asia Minor/Turkey.

But I digress

Palestinian is no more incorrect as an ethnicity than Israeli is. If you are familiar with the UN resolutions on ethnic cleansing you would know that its okay to use Palestinian and Israeli as ethnic groups in this context, so unless you are familiar with that definition, which you don't seem to be (and I agree its not logical, but it makes it simple, which is nice in this complicated issue) your semantics discussion is irrelevant. Furthermore, the ITCY is responsible for this odd definition of "ethnicity" so I don't think its wrong to compare the two. For example 'Palestinian' is no more problematic than 'Bosniak' as an ethnic vs national denomination of people but its no longer a problem thanks to this resolution's definition, and thank god, because otherwise we'd so busy with semantics we'd never get to the important stuff, which is documenting and condemning human rights abuses, which is most important because no matter how someone identifies they deserve to be treated as human. However, in the case that you don't think the Israel/Palestine conflict is as major as what happened in the Balkans, you are sadly mistaken, it has effected far more people directly and its getting close to Turkey/Asia Minor in that capacity. With regards to Turkey Asia minor, the Israel/Palestine conflict is not entirely unrelated, in fact the have similar if not related roots of conflict which is why its so important to learn from the past so we can at least salvage whats left of this miserable situation. Personally though, I take offense to the fact that you think one people's suffering is worth more than another's especially when there are so many similarities. There is nothing more insulting to anyone than to fail to use their experiences to diagnose and fix similar situations in the future. You may find what I say ignorant and insensitive, but its not, of that I can assure you, and in this case if in no other I am entirely capable of deciding what I should take offense to, and what I should not.

[Black Flag Union]

Israel has been raping the Middle Easts resources for awhile now. This is of no surprise.

[Sonthaliya]

Add that to the list of all the other atrocities and human rights abuses committed by the Israeli government and the IDF.

[Jafas United]

I'm not making up any situations, if you think I have made up a situation, then you clearly are not reading my posts. Additionally, I do think some of their policies constitute ethnic cleansing, some of their policies that are in effect right now or have been in effect in the past, things that actually took place. Whether or not you think these things constitute ethnic cleansing is your opinion (even though I disagree with you strongly) but the fact that they took place is not a debate...once again I didn't mention a situation to make the Israelis look like "the bad guys" because this is not battlefield 3 and I think anyone who looks at the conflict from that perspective is incredibly ignorant. I don't know where you even get the idea that I think that a group of people can be "bad guys" when most of them are civilians, especially when I never said anything of the kind. If you are equating my criticism of the IDF to that...honestly I expected a little more of you. Anyone that makes such a claim is obviously not interested in civil discourse. So next time read my posts instead of assuming I have a position that I never actually advocated and accusing me of "making" situations when I never dealt in specifics in the thread. Honestly my posts are not that long...just read.

You have repeatedly said that Israel is guilty of ethnic cleansing. Clearly, you're painting a picture where Israel, or more specifically, the IDF has the moral low ground. Correct?

Sure, you can say that Israel is in breach of international law with regards to the West Bank settlements, but to say that they're carrying out ethnic cleansing is beyond absurd. And something which you are yet to prove. If you can give me solid proof to the contrary, I'll apologize for wasting your time and retract everything I've said in this thread.

Meh, who am I kidding. I'm arguing with the same person who was carrying on about Israel being an apartheid state, after all.

I never said you did. I said you made up a hypothetical situation that makes no sense given the current situation today just to make an excuse to call the Palestinians bigoted and unreasonable when that is not even close to the situation on the ground. I don't say you said the Palestinians were guilty of ethnic cleansing, I said that it was unrealistic, distracting, and insulting. Now, unless you are going to stop putting words in my mouth and talking about alternate realities that have nothing to do with the topic of this thread, I don't think we have anything more to discuss.

Also, and this is critical making demands does not constitute ethnic cleansing, only carrying out policies of ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing, so no, no one's demands can ever constitute ethnic cleansing, only their actions.

I also never said that the Palestinians are bigoted and unreasonable. Their demands to completely remove the West Bank settlements, on the other hand, is.

And that is what exactly what I was saying. I never said the Palestinians are carrying out ethnic cleansing. All I said was that IF their demands came to fruition, it would be ethnic cleansing.

Jesus Christ. I hate repeating myself. But hey, repetition is the key to learning. The key to learning is repetition...

[The House of Petain]

Can't wait for the NSG Yankee Doodles to justify this one

Cuz the Jewz do wats theyz wants.

Yankee Doodles? Really? Really?