Israeli Defense Forces steal water supplies from civilians

[Costa Fiero]

Can't wait for the NSG Yankee Doodles to justify this one

This basically.

Im sick of people justifying ethnic cleansing just because the people perpetrating it are allied with states that control the UN or are considered to be industrialized nations that appear to be intent on preserving the current order of International Law through reinforcing their political hegemony over everyone else. Crimes against humanity are never in the interest of peace.

You do realise that the person whom you've quoted has probably actively supported the massacre of thousands of civilians before, right? I wouldn't trust someone like that more than I would trust someone with the name "Newt Ginrgich" or Newt Gangreen or whatever that fat bastard who tried for president was. If you're going to quote someone, don't quote someone who will most likely turn around and say "Srebrenica was justified".

Also, please point out anywhere in the article which says that it is "ethnic cleansing".

[Disserbia]

This basically.

Im sick of people justifying ethnic cleansing just because the people perpetrating it are allied with states that control the UN or are considered to be industrialized nations that appear to be intent on preserving the current order of International Law through reinforcing their political hegemony over everyone else. Crimes against humanity are never in the interest of peace.

You do realise that the person whom you've quoted has probably actively supported the massacre of thousands of civilians before, right? I wouldn't trust someone like that more than I would trust someone with the name "Newt Ginrgich" or Newt Gangreen or whatever that fat bastard who tried for president was. If you're going to quote someone, don't quote someone who will most likely turn around and say "Srebrenica was justified".

Also, please point out anywhere in the article which says that it is "ethnic cleansing".

I agree with the point he was making in this thread because it is true. Just because I disagree with him on other issues (and you don't actually know his view so don't assume) doesn't mean I can't acknowledge the fact that I agree with him on this particular one. I also didn't say that the part of my post that was a separate paragraph had anything to do with his post, but was merely elaborating on my reason for agreeing with his post in this thread. As far as the ethnic cleansing bit, my knowledge of the conflict and similar practices by the IDF lead me to believe this act is one of many in a pattern of behavior. You can keep prying, but you won't succeed.

[Jafas United]

Can't wait for the NSG Yankee Doodles to justify this one

This basically.

Im sick of people justifying ethnic cleansing just because the people perpetrating it are allied with states that control the UN or are considered to be industrialized nations that appear to be intent on preserving the current order of International Law through reinforcing their political hegemony over everyone else. Crimes against humanity are never in the interest of peace.

Israel is carrying out ethnic cleansing, is it?

[Disserbia]

This basically.

Im sick of people justifying ethnic cleansing just because the people perpetrating it are allied with states that control the UN or are considered to be industrialized nations that appear to be intent on preserving the current order of International Law through reinforcing their political hegemony over everyone else. Crimes against humanity are never in the interest of peace.

Israel is carrying out ethnic cleansing, is it?

Broad definitions allow for differing opinions. Like I said to Costa Fiero, keep prying.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

This basically.

Im sick of people justifying ethnic cleansing just because the people perpetrating it are allied with states that control the UN or are considered to be industrialized nations that appear to be intent on preserving the current order of International Law through reinforcing their political hegemony over everyone else. Crimes against humanity are never in the interest of peace.

Israel is carrying out ethnic cleansing, is it?

"Noun
ethnic cleansing (uncountable)
The mass extermination or expulsion of people belonging to one ethnic or religious group by those of another."

Yep. They're expelling Palestinians from Palestinian lands, fencing them in and occupying large chunks of the West Bank and building Israeli settlements on said occupied land at the expense of native Palestinians, so yes.

[Jafas United]

The mass extermination or expulsion of people belonging to one ethnic or religious group by those of another."

Yep. They're expelling Palestinians from Palestinian lands, fencing them in and occupying large chunks of the West Bank and building Israeli settlements on said occupied land at the expense of native Palestinians, so yes.

Just how many Palestinians have been displaced as a result of the settlements?

Also, ethnic cleansing would imply that Israel is building settlements in the West Bank in order to rid it of the Arab population. Which isn't the case.

On the contrary though, the Palestinian demand for the settlements to be removed would be, in itself, ethnic cleansing.

[Disserbia]

The mass extermination or expulsion of people belonging to one ethnic or religious group by those of another."

Yep. They're expelling Palestinians from Palestinian lands, fencing them in and occupying large chunks of the West Bank and building Israeli settlements on said occupied land at the expense of native Palestinians, so yes.

Just how many Palestinians have been displaced as a result of the settlements?

Also, ethnic cleansing would imply that Israel is building settlements in the West Bank in order to rid it of the Arab population. Which isn't the case.

On the contrary though, the Palestinian demand for the settlements to be removed would be, in itself, ethnic cleansing.

Demanding the reversal of a policy that condemned under international law is demanding justice, and unless they are actually forcing Isrealis out, which they did not (the Israeli government did that) then no, they are not practicing ethnic cleansing. If you are going to make that claim, the only way you can make it is that the Israeli government practiced ethnic cleansing against its own citizens.

[Srboslavija]

This basically.

Im sick of people justifying ethnic cleansing just because the people perpetrating it are allied with states that control the UN or are considered to be industrialized nations that appear to be intent on preserving the current order of International Law through reinforcing their political hegemony over everyone else. Crimes against humanity are never in the interest of peace.

You do realise that the person whom you've quoted has probably actively supported the massacre of thousands of civilians before, right? I wouldn't trust someone like that more than I would trust someone with the name "Newt Ginrgich" or Newt Gangreen or whatever that fat bastard who tried for president was. If you're going to quote someone, don't quote someone who will most likely turn around and say "Srebrenica was justified".

Also, please point out anywhere in the article which says that it is "ethnic cleansing".

I've never advocated the harm of any civilians of any group, ever. Legitimate military targets are a whole different story.

Such personal attacks and defamation of character will not be tolerated and I will seek legal counsel should you continue to do so.

Regards.

[Jafas United]

Demanding the reversal of a policy that condemned under international law is demanding justice, and unless they are actually forcing Isrealis out, which they did not (the Israeli government did that) then no, they are not practicing ethnic cleansing. If you are going to make that claim, the only way you can make it is that the Israeli government practiced ethnic cleansing against its own citizens.

Call it what you will, but it still would be ethnic cleansing. Whether or not the settlements are legal or illegal.

And did it ever come across to you that by removing the settlements you would be displacing the Jewish population, thus forcing them out of their former residencies?

Also, how is Israel ethnically cleansing its own citizens? The inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza are not considered as Israeli citizens.

[Disserbia]

Demanding the reversal of a policy that condemned under international law is demanding justice, and unless they are actually forcing Isrealis out, which they did not (the Israeli government did that) then no, they are not practicing ethnic cleansing. If you are going to make that claim, the only way you can make it is that the Israeli government practiced ethnic cleansing against its own citizens.

Call it what you will, but it still would be ethnic cleansing. Whether or not the settlements are illegal or illegal.

And did it ever come across to you that by removing the settlements you would be displacing the Jewish population, thus forcing them out of their former residencies?

Also, how is Israel ethnically cleansing its own citizens? The inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza are not considered as Israeli citizens.

I just explained how Israel would be ethnically cleansing its own citizens if you think that reversing illegal policy is ethnic cleansing. Since Palestinians had no role in the policy or the reversal of it they are not guilty of ethnic cleansing in this situation. Did you even read my post, or did you just skim it and pick out words you didn't like?

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

The mass extermination or expulsion of people belonging to one ethnic or religious group by those of another."

Yep. They're expelling Palestinians from Palestinian lands, fencing them in and occupying large chunks of the West Bank and building Israeli settlements on said occupied land at the expense of native Palestinians, so yes.

1) Just how many Palestinians have been displaced as a result of the settlements?

2) Also, ethnic cleansing would imply that Israel is building settlements in the West Bank in order to rid it of the Arab population. Which isn't the case.

On the contrary though, 3) the Palestinian demand for the settlements to be removed would be, in itself, ethnic cleansing.

1) Let's see:
- 30 to 40,000 Palestinians evicted from Israel between 1948 and 1950.
- 280 to 325,000 Palestinian refugees fled territory occupied by Israel after the Six-Day War, and it is pretty much certain that many of these fled with the threat of violence hanging over them if they did not.
So, 35,000 if you include solely the Israeli evictions of the late 1940s and 337,500 in total if you include refugees from the Six-Day War. That smells like ethnic cleansing to me.

2) They're building settlements in the West Bank in order to build up the Israeli population there. The fact that Arabs are physically prevented from entering a good deal of the West Bank is, of course, a coincidence and not linked in any way.

3) Not really, given that the settlements are built on territory that does not legally belong to Israel.

[Terraius]

It's becoming impossible to have any ties to the Christian faith because of shit like this...

I'm sorry, but Fuck Israel - Let them get exterminated.

Because swinging from one extreme (Militant/Fundamental Zionism) to another (Militant/Fundamental Islamism) is a totally reasonable thing and will surely cure all problems with minimal innocent casualties.

[Terraius]

Honestly I find it comical. Its like NSG has no room for a middle ground, its either FFUCK EBIL ISRAEL HOLOCAUSE THE JUDEN LOL or RAGHEAD TURRIST MOSLEMS CAN LURKE IT OR GEEEEEEEEET OTU

I mean at this point its arguing semantics and trying to make one side or another out to be more evil and therefore deserving of genocide/wiped off the face of the world. You might as well just start flipping a coin and making the whole process alot easier.

[Jafas United]

I just explained how Israel would be ethnically cleansing its own citizens if you think that reversing illegal policy is ethnic cleansing. Since Palestinians had no role in the policy or the reversal of it they are not guilty of ethnic cleansing in this situation. Did you even read my post, or did you just skim it and pick out words you didn't like?

Seems like you did likewise with my posts.

I posed a hypothetical situation where say the Palestinians got their demand and the settlements in the West Bank had to be disbanded. That would be ethnic cleaning, would it not?

The legality of the settlements isn't relevant at all to this.

[Terraius]

I just explained how Israel would be ethnically cleansing its own citizens if you think that reversing illegal policy is ethnic cleansing. Since Palestinians had no role in the policy or the reversal of it they are not guilty of ethnic cleansing in this situation. Did you even read my post, or did you just skim it and pick out words you didn't like?

Seems like you did likewise with my posts.

I posed a hypothetical situation where say the Palestinians got their demand and the settlements in the West Bank had to be disbanded. That would be ethnic cleaning, would it not?

The legality of the settlements isn't relevant at all to this.

"the planned deliberate removal from a specific territory, persons of a particular ethnic group, by force or intimidation, in order to render that area ethnically homogenous"

Unless Israel has a policy of homogenizing areas to Jewish/Israelite demographics I dont think it qualifies for the technical definition of Ethnic cleansing.

Displacing settlements usually wouldn't entail ethnic sorting/targeting/profiling so it might be better called something else. (Although im not sure what, perhaps, simply, mass displacement?)

[Disserbia]

I just explained how Israel would be ethnically cleansing its own citizens if you think that reversing illegal policy is ethnic cleansing. Since Palestinians had no role in the policy or the reversal of it they are not guilty of ethnic cleansing in this situation. Did you even read my post, or did you just skim it and pick out words you didn't like?

Seems like you did likewise with my posts.

I posed a hypothetical situation where say the Palestinians got their demand and the settlements in the West Bank had to be disbanded. That would be ethnic cleaning, would it not?

The legality of the settlements isn't relevant at all to this.

I explained that it would not be ethnic cleansing because the settlements were illegal under international law resolutions. I also explained that if you did consider it ethnic cleansing (which would be incorrect legally) if the Israeli government dissolved the settlements it would be them bringing that upon their own people. This is the only manner to date in which the settlements have been dissolved. It doesn't matter what the PAlestinians want or demand, because if they are not the ones enacting policy they have no legal consequence for it.

[Terraius]

Even if the settlements were legal, its not really Ethnic cleansing because they arnt targeting a particular ethnic group as much as they are targeting a Palestinian community/demographic, and they especially dont have an official policy of homogenizing ethnicity in any particular area.

Honestly I think its an offensive misnomer, as it kinda downplays true ethnic atrocities like what we saw in the Balkans in the 90's. I think its safe to say there is a fine line between the two situations.

[Disserbia]

It's becoming impossible to have any ties to the Christian faith because of shit like this...

I'm sorry, but Fuck Israel - Let them get exterminated.

Because swinging from one extreme (Militant/Fundamental Zionism) to another (Militant/Fundamental Islamism) is a totally reasonable thing and will surely cure all problems with minimal innocent casualties.

Being anti-Israel is not necessarily militant/fundamental Islamism, especially in the above case.

[Jafas United]

1) Let's see:
- 30 to 40,000 Palestinians evicted from Israel between 1948 and 1950.
- 280 to 325,000 Palestinian refugees fled territory occupied by Israel after the Six-Day War, and it is pretty much certain that many of these fled with the threat of violence hanging over them if they did not.
So, 35,000 if you include solely the Israeli evictions of the late 1940s and 337,500 in total if you include refugees from the Six-Day War. That smells like ethnic cleansing to me.

I might tell you that this is irrelevant because I was referring to the settlements in the West Bank. It helps to read, y'know.

And when you put reality into the picture, the refugees were asked to stay and live as Israeli citizens, but they refused.

Nope. Not ethnic cleansing at all.

2) They're building settlements in the West Bank in order to build up the Israeli population there.

Source?

The fact that Arabs are physically prevented from entering a good deal of the West Bank is, of course, a coincidence and not linked in any way.

Linked to what? It's unfortunate that Palestinians cannot access some areas of the West Bank, but that is blatant racism. Not ethnic cleansing. Sorry.

3) Not really, given that the settlements are built on territory that does not legally belong to Israel.

[/quote]

Irrelevant. Whether or not the land belongs to Israel, by removing the settlements you are forcing the Jewish population to leave their homes, which can be considered as ethnic cleansing.

[Terraius]

Furthermore 'Palestinian' does not immediately denote membership to any religion or ethnicity, just like 'Israeli/Israelite'. There are Arab Israelis and Jewish Palestinians. If nothing else they are nationalities.

[Terraius]

Because swinging from one extreme (Militant/Fundamental Zionism) to another (Militant/Fundamental Islamism) is a totally reasonable thing and will surely cure all problems with minimal innocent casualties.

Being anti-Israel is not necessarily militant/fundamental Islamism, especially in the above case.

Still the point remains. Sanctioning extermination of millions of people, many of which are innocent and just trying to make it day by day, is no rational or reasonable line of thought and is just as pitiful as any fundamental Zionist or Islamist.

[Jafas United]

I explained that it would not be ethnic cleansing because the settlements were illegal under international law resolutions. I also explained that if you did consider it ethnic cleansing (which would be incorrect legally) if the Israeli government dissolved the settlements it would be them bringing that upon their own people. This is the only manner to date in which the settlements have been dissolved. It doesn't matter what the PAlestinians want or demand, because if they are not the ones enacting policy they have no legal consequence for it.

For Christ's sake, it does not matter whether the settlements are illegal. Ethnic cleansing is the removal of one ethnic group from an area in order to satisfy the demands of another ethnic group.

Well yes, in a way, the Israeli government would be bringing it upon their own people if there settlements were to be removed.

But it would be more likely if a Palestinian state did that. Not the Israeli government.

[Disserbia]

Even if the settlements were legal, its not really Ethnic cleansing because they arnt targeting a particular ethnic group as much as they are targeting a Palestinian community/demographic, and they especially dont have an official policy of homogenizing ethnicity in any particular area.

Honestly I think its an offensive misnomer, as it kinda downplays true ethnic atrocities like what we saw in the Balkans in the 90's. I think its safe to say there is a fine line between the two situations.

The settlements are targeting people on the basis of ethnicity actually, but its rather indirect. Its a completely ethnic issue, as what how one is effected by it is completely subject to their ethnicity. Ethnicity in this case as defined by the definition in the resolution on this particular law. I don't think its offensive at all. Honestly, the attrocities as a result of the Israel/Palestine conflict touch a greater number of people in a very direct way than what happened in the Balkans. Actually the reason I'm so impassioned on the subject of Israel/Palestine is because I see too many similarities between the two situations and am baffled and angered by the fact that people in the place to make a difference don't learn the lessons of history the first time.

[Disserbia]

I explained that it would not be ethnic cleansing because the settlements were illegal under international law resolutions. I also explained that if you did consider it ethnic cleansing (which would be incorrect legally) if the Israeli government dissolved the settlements it would be them bringing that upon their own people. This is the only manner to date in which the settlements have been dissolved. It doesn't matter what the PAlestinians want or demand, because if they are not the ones enacting policy they have no legal consequence for it.

For Christ's sake, it does not matter whether the settlements are illegal. Ethnic cleansing is the removal of one ethnic group from an area in order to satisfy the demands of another ethnic group.

Well yes, in a way, the Israeli government would be bringing it upon their own people if there settlements were to be removed.

But it would be more likely if a Palestinian state did that. Not the Israeli government.

If you are going to talk about something in terms of law legality matters entirely. Since your hypothetical situation is extremely far from reality and legality has everything to do with legal definitions, I can't answer your question, and I don't know what you are trying to get me to admit, but this isn't the way to do it.

[Sidhae]

Typical behaviour of Zionist scumbags. They stole even the land their state was built on, and now they are stealing water from the natives. Seems to come naturally for them, I guess...