NationStates

Why the fuck does that matter?

The Steel Magnolia wrote:

Yuktova wrote:And he logs off when he's defeated. Hah, what a class A troll!

Oh thank GOD. Sleep! Come to me!

*grabs hand* away to sleepsville!
Edit: Ohshitno! He's back!

Galiantus wrote:

Yuktova wrote:I'm pretry sure I don't need to be treated.

But I'm pretty sure that YOU may, because you seem highly insecure, thinking that gays are mentally ill. Hey, perhaps you're gay yourself!.
What was your parental environment like? Was mum not nice? Was dad not nice? Was the kids down the block not nice? Did they say stuff like, "Dem Gheys! Blah blah blah!"

I am going to just take that like a good psychologist and tell you that I have no problems with gays. I have a friend who is gay, and my view is that he should be helped and loved, and should not be hurt because of his condition. However, I still think it would be better for him to change. As for me, no, I am not gay.

So you honest-to-goodness believe that you are a good psychologist. That's amusing considering you yourself are clearly of a deluded persuasion.

Galiantus wrote:

Hulagu wrote:Tourette and autism are not in the same league - one is an obsessive compulsive disorder, the other is caused by a pathologic cognitive disability.

being gay is completely natural - and all psychological associations in the Western world have removed it from their handbooks as a disorder. Which means: it's anot a disorder.

Wait...

So if we vote and decide that liking peanuts is a disorder, it is? Thanks for clearing things up.

If you're a trained psychologist or physician with a Ph.D and wrote the book? Yes. No one will buy it though.

Most people I know do not hate homosexuals. I live in UTAH, probably the most anti-gay state in the USA, and I personally know more gays than gay haters (gays:2, haters: 0). Now if you are talking about the UK or somewhere else, I would not have any idea, but if it is true that homosexuals have more disorders, I think it is a valid argument that being gay just might be a disorder.

Well, no one with authority said that. So, tough luck.

Galiantus wrote:
Wait...

So if we vote and decide that liking peanuts is a disorder, it is? Thanks for clearing things up.

When it's a plurality of the experts in a field deciding on the definition of something in a field in which they have had decades of experience, yes. Absolutely. Science runs on consensuses.

Galiantus wrote:

But disorders are more likely to occur in gay and lesbian people: depression, suicidal tendencies, anxiety...
The reason: that's caused by the bigotry and hatred that certain heterosexual people think they aught to have for gay and lesbian people.

Most people I know do not hate homosexuals. I live in UTAH, probably the most anti-gay state in the USA, and I personally know more gays than gay haters (gays:2, haters: 0). Now if you are talking about the UK or somewhere else, I would not have any idea, but if it is true that homosexuals have more disorders, I think it is a valid argument that being gay just might be a disorder.

Clearly not the most anti gay state in the US, try somewhere in the deep south, like Alabama. There are places that are far worse than Utah.

Mavorpen wrote:

Vitaphone Racing wrote:
No I'm not. You have no idea what I'm trying to say.

Likewise you have no idea what I'm trying to say. Essentially it was completely pointless to edit the post when you did, since I never said we shouldn't understand their situation. Understanding was already assumed in the post.

I have no idea what support you want to offer to people, but I really don't see how it helps the situation. Minority groups often do not want support based on their condition, they just want to be treated equally and accepted for what they are. Support and understanding are certainly not the same thing.

Galiantus wrote:Most people I know do not hate homosexuals. I live in UTAH, probably the most anti-gay state in the USA, and I personally know more gays than gay haters (gays:2, haters: 0). Now if you are talking about the UK or somewhere else, I would not have any idea, but if it is true that homosexuals have more disorders, I think it is a valid argument that being gay just might be a disorder.

Black people have significantly higher rates of heart disease, HIV, strokes, etc. Therefore being black is a disease.

Do you see how stupid your argument is?

Avenio wrote:

Wikkiwallana wrote:Why?

This is, of course, the fundamental irony of this thread. OP here puts on a nice act of fake scientific/professional objectivity and detachedness from the subject, but deep down his beliefs are driven by the fact that he finds homosexuality morally repulsive. He can dress it up in whatever post hoc reasoning he likes, but it can't hide or excise the rotten core of his opinion, nor can he stop it from festering and calcifying into a blackened core of bigotry.

So much this it hurts.

Vitaphone Racing wrote:I have no idea what support you want to offer to people, but I really don't see how it helps the situation. Minority groups often do not want support based on their condition, they just want to be treated equally and accepted for what they are. Support and understanding are certainly not the same thing.

You said yourself support is meaningless without understanding. Thus implying that with understanding, it's not meaningless. Make up your mind.

Yuktova wrote:

The Steel Magnolia wrote:
Oh thank GOD. Sleep! Come to me!

*grabs hand* away to sleepsville!

Not quite yet, unfortunately.

Galiantus wrote:

Hulagu wrote:Tourette and autism are not in the same league - one is an obsessive compulsive disorder, the other is caused by a pathologic cognitive disability.

being gay is completely natural - and all psychological associations in the Western world have removed it from their handbooks as a disorder. Which means: it's anot a disorder.

Wait...

So if we vote and decide that liking peanuts is a disorder, it is? Thanks for clearing things up.

It's not democratically decided on by the proles. It's decided on by the doctors editing and buying the things, which means they're much more qualified than you, by definition.

But disorders are more likely to occur in gay and lesbian people: depression, suicidal tendencies, anxiety...
The reason: that's caused by the bigotry and hatred that certain heterosexual people think they aught to have for gay and lesbian people.

Most people I know do not hate homosexuals. I live in UTAH, probably the most anti-gay state in the USA, and I personally know more gays than gay haters (gays:2, haters: 0). Now if you are talking about the UK or somewhere else, I would not have any idea, but if it is true that homosexuals have more disorders, I think it is a valid argument that being gay just might be a disorder.

Well, your complete oodles of experience interviewing a statistically-incontestable number of people in the world about their positive feelings towards gay people (although I wouldn't call them "positive", as they're probably more in line with your "we've got to fix them" strategy, which is not positive at all). You think the people you know will admit to "hating" gay people? Do you think you know enough people anyway to make a statement like that? That's arrogance on a simply gigantic scale.

Galiantus wrote:Wait...

So if we vote and decide that liking peanuts is a disorder, it is? Thanks for clearing things up.

Ypou don't get a vote in the matter unless you belong to the health organisation that votes/ voted on the decision.

But disorders are more likely to occur in gay and lesbian people: depression, suicidal tendencies, anxiety...
The reason: that's caused by the bigotry and hatred that certain heterosexual people think they aught to have for gay and lesbian people.

Most people I know do not hate homosexuals. I live in UTAH, probably the most anti-gay state in the USA, and I personally know more gays than gay haters (gays:2, haters: 0). Now if you are talking about the UK or somewhere else, I would not have any idea, but if it is true that homosexuals have more disorders, I think it is a valid argument that being gay just might be a disorder.

So basically, you say that if we bully someone to the point where it becomes a serious problem for them, whatever you were bullying him with can then be declared his problem? I'd suggest that you stop bullying, and stop CAUSING THE PRBLEM in the first place.

By the same standard, red hair could be a psychological disorder, simply because bullying causes red-haired people to develop low self-esteem.

Episarta wrote:

Galiantus wrote:I am going to just take that like a good psychologist and tell you that I have no problems with gays. I have a friend who is gay, and my view is that he should be helped and loved, and should not be hurt because of his condition. However, I still think it would be better for him to change. As for me, no, I am not gay.

"Yes indeed. He needs to be cured of his homosexuality. I too have a friend who needs to be helped and cared for. He is black, but I think with enough 'love' and 'compassion' we can change that. He needs to be cured of this terrible affliction. He says he is fine and doesn't mind being black. In fact he kind of enjoys it. But fuck how he feels! It's how I feel that matters! I know he will be much happier a different colour. Maybe white or yellow. Or even a light brown? I myself have never been black, but I know for a fact he doesn't like it."

This is basically how you sound. Replace "gay" with "black" and it just becomes a bit offensive doesn't it?

Please speak coherently.

My point was that I don't hate gays, but that I think they should be treated. And come on: does someone with touretts know that they have a problem if they are not told?

Mavorpen wrote:

Vitaphone Racing wrote:I have no idea what support you want to offer to people, but I really don't see how it helps the situation. Minority groups often do not want support based on their condition, they just want to be treated equally and accepted for what they are. Support and understanding are certainly not the same thing.

You said yourself support is meaningless without understanding. Thus implying that with understanding, it's not meaningless. Make up your mind.

What I said above does not contradict my previous statement. Support and understanding are not necessarily offered together and do not have to be.

Please continue to dance around my point and focus only on slight inconsistencies in my logic. It displays a truly great debating style.

Galiantus wrote:Please speak coherently.

My point was that I don't hate gays, but that I think they should be treated. And come on: does someone with touretts know that they have a problem if they are not told?

Tourettes meets the definition of a mental illness. Homosexuality does not.

Galiantus wrote:Ah, but if the "normal" programming was homosexuality, people would have died out millions of years ago. Therefore natural homosexuality is a disorder, because it does not benefit the human race in any way.

But the "normal" programming of humans is not homosexuality. Simply because universal homosexuality would cause problems, does not mean that homosexuality in a fraction of the population cannot be beneficial. Having people around capable of helping others bring up children and supporting the group as a whole is beneficial for everyone, and even if it's not your genes specifically that are passed on, you share quite a bit of genetic information with people related to you (see kin selection).

Galiantus wrote:If it isn't a mental illness, then it must be a problem of some sort.

Why?

What harm does it cause?

Galiantus wrote:

Episarta wrote:

"Yes indeed. He needs to be cured of his homosexuality. I too have a friend who needs to be helped and cared for. He is black, but I think with enough 'love' and 'compassion' we can change that. He needs to be cured of this terrible affliction. He says he is fine and doesn't mind being black. In fact he kind of enjoys it. But fuck how he feels! It's how I feel that matters! I know he will be much happier a different colour. Maybe white or yellow. Or even a light brown? I myself have never been black, but I know for a fact he doesn't like it."

This is basically how you sound. Replace "gay" with "black" and it just becomes a bit offensive doesn't it?

Please speak coherently.

My point was that I don't hate gays, but that I think they should be treated. And come on: does someone with touretts know that they have a problem if they are not told?

Treated? For what? My God, they love people of their own race! Save the children! Round 'em all up! A cure is needed!

You do realize you're not making a very good argument here, right?

Galiantus wrote:disorder

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Tourette's is an obsessive compulsion, so yes, they probably know.

Incedentally, in your OP, you spelled it Terret, and yet you claim to have a degree in psychology?

If religion is mental illness, so homosexuality is same too. If religion aren't mental illness, well, that depends with...something
In Indonesia, Ryan Si Pembunuh Berantai (Ryan the Serial Killer) is homosexual, and he allegedly have mental illness. The rest of that....is up to you.

Mavorpen wrote:

Galiantus wrote:Most people I know do not hate homosexuals. I live in UTAH, probably the most anti-gay state in the USA, and I personally know more gays than gay haters (gays:2, haters: 0). Now if you are talking about the UK or somewhere else, I would not have any idea, but if it is true that homosexuals have more disorders, I think it is a valid argument that being gay just might be a disorder.

Black people have significantly higher rates of heart disease, HIV, strokes, etc. Therefore being black is a disease.

Do you see how stupid your argument is?

You: "Maybe if I took this out of context I could win the argument..."

Vitaphone Racing wrote:

Mavorpen wrote:
You said yourself support is meaningless without understanding. Thus implying that with understanding, it's not meaningless. Make up your mind.

What I said above does not contradict my previous statement. Support and understanding are not necessarily offered together and do not have to be.

Please continue to dance around my point and focus only on slight inconsistencies in my logic. It displays a truly great debating style.

Except I never said they are offered together and they have to be. YOU stated that support is useless without understanding, something I never hinted to disagreeing with. Then you come and say that support isn't what homosexuals need, they just need understanding.

So again, if support isn't useless without understanding, doesn't that mean that support can be useful with understanding? If so, why are you saying that homosexuals do not need support? You've done nothing but create straw men and contradict yourself since your first post quoting me.

Galiantus wrote:

Episarta wrote:

"Yes indeed. He needs to be cured of his homosexuality. I too have a friend who needs to be helped and cared for. He is black, but I think with enough 'love' and 'compassion' we can change that. He needs to be cured of this terrible affliction. He says he is fine and doesn't mind being black. In fact he kind of enjoys it. But fuck how he feels! It's how I feel that matters! I know he will be much happier a different colour. Maybe white or yellow. Or even a light brown? I myself have never been black, but I know for a fact he doesn't like it."

This is basically how you sound. Replace "gay" with "black" and it just becomes a bit offensive doesn't it?

Please speak coherently.

My point was that I don't hate gays, but that I think they should be treated. And come on: does someone with touretts know that they have a problem if they are not told?

Hey, let me guess: You're not really a psychologist, are you?

Galiantus wrote:My point was that I don't hate gays, but that I think they should be treated. And come on: does someone with touretts know that they have a problem if they are not told?

As a person with OCD (an actual mental disorder), I knew it was a bad thing before I was diagnosed, and before I even knew it was abnormal. As a boy who is primarily attracted to other boys, I always knew it wasn't a bad thing, even before it brought anything good to my life.

Reploid Productions wrote:

Galiantus wrote:disorder

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I love you so much right now Reploid Productions.