Should Evolution be taught in State Schools?

[Mavorpen]

Secular nations like the United States. First Amendment, anyone?

a ok Im not from this nation so ok.
Nevertheless, the state schools cannot prefer one theory over another- neither the evolution, nor the creationism

Yes they can. One is scientific, the other is not. Deal with it.

[Individuality-ness]

Secular nations like the United States. First Amendment, anyone?

Amendments are just guidelines. *nods*

Not here it isn't. If they were just guidelines, then what is the point of "rule of law"?

[Mavorpen]

When 95-96% of any nation believe in something, the education system will conform with them in some way. Because you cant employ all teachers and clerks from the rest 4%

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

No. Most Americans believe in Creationism. Why is it not in the classroom? Your claim that the people influence the education system is complete bullshit and devoid of any reality at all.

The Katganistan (who's a her, I believe), who's already commented in this thread. You could always TG her and ask her how it works.

Yes, Kat's a chickie-poo...

Here’s another question I have. How come when it’s us, it’s an abortion, and when it’s a chicken, it’s an omelette? Are we so much better than chickens all of a sudden? When did this happen, that we passed chickens in goodness. Name 6 ways we’re better than chickens. See, nobody can do it! You know why? ‘Cause chickens are decent people. You don’t see chickens hanging around in drug gangs, do you? No, you don’t see a chicken strapping some guy into a chair and hooking up his nuts to a car battery, do you? When’s the last chicken you heard about come home from work and beat the shit out of his hen, huh? Doesn’t happen, ’cause chickens are decent people.

[Threlizdun]

As a secular nation, we are strictly forbidden from doing this. Even if this was not an issue, you are not given the right to teach falsehoods to students just because your myths are more popular than science.

Which is this nation?

Sorry, the few people that actually still believe in imposing theocratic ideals on others that I have met were American, so I simply assumed you were. However, secularism is a basis of many modern societies, and for a very good reason. Even many societies that still have a state church have realized how absurd imposing such beliefs on others is.

[Chinese Regions]

Secular nations like the United States. First Amendment, anyone?

a ok Im not from this nation so ok.
Nevertheless, the state schools cannot prefer one theory over another- neither the evolution, nor the creationism

Creationism is not a theory nor scientific.

[Turan Federasyonu]

When 95-96% of any nation believe in something, the education system will conform with them in some way. Because you cant employ all teachers and clerks from the rest 4%

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

No. Most Americans believe in Creationism. Why is it not in the classroom? Your claim that the people influence the education system is complete bullshit and devoid of any reality at all.

Yes, Kat's a chickie-poo...

Here’s another question I have. How come when it’s us, it’s an abortion, and when it’s a chicken, it’s an omelette? Are we so much better than chickens all of a sudden? When did this happen, that we passed chickens in goodness. Name 6 ways we’re better than chickens. See, nobody can do it! You know why? ‘Cause chickens are decent people. You don’t see chickens hanging around in drug gangs, do you? No, you don’t see a chicken strapping some guy into a chair and hooking up his nuts to a car battery, do you? When’s the last chicken you heard about come home from work and beat the shit out of his hen, huh? Doesn’t happen, ’cause chickens are decent people.

Dont we speak generally about of the states of the world?

[Terruana]

Secular nations like the United States. First Amendment, anyone?

a ok Im not from this nation so ok.
Nevertheless, the state schools cannot prefer one theory over another- neither the evolution, nor the creationism

Yes they can. One is a scientific theory with a shit tonne of supporting evidence. The other is creationism, which is unscientific and has no evidence. Now tell me that both should be taught as equals in a science lesson.

[Mavorpen]

Dont we speak generally about of the states of the world?

No.

[The United Nations of the Earth]

i don't know if it is considered censorship if it is available in a public library. i am merely saying that it should not be taught in public schools.

Oh, but you're censoring teachers from teaching evolution. It's a controversial topic PRECISELY because there are some religious people who cannot stand the idea that their children are being taught to question the Bible out of all things.

eyeroll no doubt! i agree that christianity is the main problem, but since we cannot and should not keep people from believing whatever they want to, all we can do is keep church and state separate by not teaching creationism or any other theories on our origin. maybe an elective "origins" could be offered, but only if it also includes 'ancient aliens' theories too.

[Turan Federasyonu]

Which is this nation?

Sorry, the few people that actually still believe in imposing theocratic ideals on others that I have met were American, so I simply assumed you were. However, secularism is a basis of many modern societies, and for a very good reason. Even many societies that still have a state church have realized how absurd imposing such beliefs on others is.

The secularism is a kind of regime. Separation of the religous matters from the state, so in the secular education theist conceptions should not be imposed on the students. But anti-theistic should be too

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Secular nations like the United States. First Amendment, anyone?

a ok Im not from this nation so ok.
Nevertheless, the state schools cannot prefer one theory over another- neither the evolution, nor the creationism

It's not a matter of preferring. It's a matter of what is empirically proven. In a school system, with people of various religious backgrounds, it is not the school's obligation to make kids believe anything. It is the school's obligation to educate.

If you want your children to believe in fairytales and shit, teach those to them at home. Don't expect or force a school to do it for you. That's irresponsible.

[Vault 1]

No. Most Americans believe in Creationism. Why is it not in the classroom?

Apparently not enough.
I have posted the graph: http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/5237/youarehere2.png

On the other hand, most Americans believe that US was the major force behind winning WWII. And that's why it is in the classroom. Or is it that most Americans believe it because it was in their classroom? Either way, a prime example of how political messages make their way to classes and ultimately to undisputed belief.

[Individuality-ness]

Oh, but you're censoring teachers from teaching evolution. It's a controversial topic PRECISELY because there are some religious people who cannot stand the idea that their children are being taught to question the Bible out of all things.

eyeroll no doubt! i agree that christianity is the main problem, but since we cannot and should not keep people from believing whatever they want to, all we can do is keep church and state separate by not teaching creationism or any other theories on our origin. maybe an elective "origins" could be offered, but only if it also includes 'ancient aliens' theories too.

Evolution is not connected to any religion -- it's a scientific theory. Creationism is religiously derived. Teach evolution, allow kids to learn about creationism on their own time. Or, if they're in private religious schools, in a Bible Studies class.

[Mavorpen]

The secularism is a kind of regime. Separation of the religous matters from the state, so in the secular education theist conceptions should not be imposed on the students. But anti-theistic should be too

Bullshit. So we shouldn't teach that viruses and bacteria cause diseases?

[The United Nations of the Earth]

a ok Im not from this nation so ok.
Nevertheless, the state schools cannot prefer one theory over another- neither the evolution, nor the creationism

It's not a matter of preferring. It's a matter of what is empirically proven. In a school system, with people of various religious backgrounds, it is not the school's obligation to make kids believe anything. It is the school's obligation to educate.

If you want your children to believe in fairytales and shit, teach those to them at home. Don't expect or force a school to do it for you. That's irresponsible.

holy crap that is exactly right!
[edit] but well put!

[Turan Federasyonu]

a ok Im not from this nation so ok.
Nevertheless, the state schools cannot prefer one theory over another- neither the evolution, nor the creationism

Yes they can. One is a scientific theory with a shit tonne of supporting evidence. The other is creationism, which is unscientific and has no evidence. Now tell me that both should be taught as equals in a science lesson.

I never told that creationism should be told in science lesson, we havent had a lesson called "science" at all. I told that both should be preaented by the educational system

[Mavorpen]

Apparently not enough.
I have posted the graph: http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/5237/youarehere2.png

On the other hand, most Americans believe that US was the major force behind winning WWII. And that's why it is in the classroom. Or is it that most Americans believe it because it was in their classroom? Either way, a prime example of how political messages make their way to classes and ultimately to undisputed belief.

What the fuck? That's complete nonsense, no school teaches that. They DO teach the American side if you're in U.S. history. Thus, students get the idea that America played the biggest role. Only an idiot takes, "America played a large role in turning around the war," and turns that into, "FUCK YEAH, AMERICA DID ALL THE WORK! USA USA!" However, if you take something such as European History, you'd learn that wasn't the case. You have no clue what you're talking about.

[Chinese Regions]

Yes they can. One is a scientific theory with a shit tonne of supporting evidence. The other is creationism, which is unscientific and has no evidence. Now tell me that both should be taught as equals in a science lesson.

I never told that creationism should be told in science lesson, we havent had a lesson called "science" at all. I told that both should be preaented by the educational system

Fair enough, evolution in Science and Creationism in Theology/RE/RS.

[Individuality-ness]

No. Most Americans believe in Creationism. Why is it not in the classroom?

Apparently not enough.
I have posted the graph: http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/5237/youarehere2.png

On the other hand, most Americans believe that US was the major force behind winning WWII. And that's why it is in the classroom. Or is it that most Americans believe it because it was in their classroom? Either way, a prime example of how political messages make their way to classes and ultimately to undisputed belief.

Because it WAS. Other than Pearl Harbor, we had the factories, the manpower, the ability to produce more while Europe and the Pacific became a huge battlefield. But how is this relevant to this discussion?

[Terruana]

Yes they can. One is a scientific theory with a shit tonne of supporting evidence. The other is creationism, which is unscientific and has no evidence. Now tell me that both should be taught as equals in a science lesson.

I never told that creationism should be told in science lesson, we havent had a lesson called "science" at all. I told that both should be preaented by the educational system

So, you don't want to teach children science in school?

[Anderzeme]

Evolution and creation are equally unproven. If one can not be taught, the other can not be taught either. However, I think it should be up to the discretion of the local school board since it's a level of government where parents are really able to give input and voice opinions about what their kids learn.

[Turan Federasyonu]

I never told that creationism should be told in science lesson, we havent had a lesson called "science" at all. I told that both should be preaented by the educational system

Fair enough, evolution in Science and Creationism in Theology/RE/RS.

So about what are we arguing at all?

[Chinese Regions]

Evolution and creation are equally unproven. If one can not be taught, the other can not be taught either. However, I think it should be up to the discretion of the local school board since it's a level of government where parents are really able to give input and voice opinions about what their kids learn.

They are not equally unproven, Evolution is a scientific fact whereas creationism is a religious belief with no evidence.

[Terruana]

Evolution and creation are equally unproven. If one can not be taught, the other can not be taught either. However, I think it should be up to the discretion of the local school board since it's a level of government where parents are really able to give input and voice opinions about what their kids learn.

Oh look, another person who couldn't even be bothered to read the first page of the thread before commenting.

viewtopic.php?p=10117899#p10117899

[Mavorpen]

Evolution and creation are equally unproven. If one can not be taught, the other can not be taught either. However, I think it should be up to the discretion of the local school board since it's a level of government where parents are really able to give input and voice opinions about what their kids learn.

Obvious troll puppet account is obvious.