Should Evolution be taught in State Schools?

[The Black Forrest]

Ok I will bite. Where did we come from?

Be damned if I know. Is it really that important?

You are the one asking for definitive proof.

[Manahakatouki]

And so obviously god revealed the cure to all his loyal and devoted followers...

They have no need for a cure because they don't engage in activities that lead to getting it.

Exchange of bodily fluids?

[Individuality-ness]

1) Punish the innocent as well as the guilty (since HIV can and has been transmitted via blood transfusion or in utero)? Why?

Previous Egypt Plagues didn't discriminate at all.
This time, the effect is overwhelmingly focused on the sinners, with only a tiny proportion of transmission in other ways.
Won't go into blood transfusions not being entirely noncontroversial either, and if you procreate while having HIV... just ending you and letting the child live would not be punishment enough.

Condoms, anyone? And no, I don't think that other methods of transmission are that insignificant -- needles, anyone?
You might not know you're HIV-positive until you're having the kid. You're still going to punish them for that?

You never responded to the rest of my points. You also didn't explain how Biblical science solves the whale.

[Hathradic States]

It should be taught as a theory, not as fact.

Hath, for the last time, "Theory" in the scientific nomenclature is as close to a "fact" as you can get. Evolution happens. That is as evident as the cycling of day and night. The theory explains how it can create divergence in species, and thus explian the multitude that exist. And it is backed up by countless numbers of fossil, expirimental, and even observed speciation events. It is taught as theory... in the same manner as 1+1=2 is taught as theory.

Last time? This is the first time from you, IIRC.

Anyways, I am not going to argue whether or not it is true. However, I do not believe we have seen any new species evolve lately, we can not definatively prove that trans-species evolution can happen.

[Desperate Measures]

Oh. You ignored the real point.

I thought I replied to the real point, but if you want me to put it anviliciously.

"Reality" is what people perceive as reality. What the vast majority of people perceive as reality is what they're being told - by parents, at school, on TV. Tell them one story for all their life and it will be considered self-evident truth.

Today evolution is still one of such stories. Replace it with creation science and it will become perceived reality. Certainly evolution is better at explaining some things, like MRSA and hyenas, but biblical science is better at explaining others, like HIV and whales.

I feel like you should come with pamphlets.

[Hathradic States]

Be damned if I know. Is it really that important?

You are the one asking for definitive proof.

IF we are going to teach it to you, developing minds, yes. But, outside of that, I honestly do not see the point it any of it.

[Manahakatouki]

Hath, for the last time, "Theory" in the scientific nomenclature is as close to a "fact" as you can get. Evolution happens. That is as evident as the cycling of day and night. The theory explains how it can create divergence in species, and thus explian the multitude that exist. And it is backed up by countless numbers of fossil, expirimental, and even observed speciation events. It is taught as theory... in the same manner as 1+1=2 is taught as theory.

Last time? This is the first time from you, IIRC.

Anyways, I am not going to argue whether or not it is true. However, I do not believe we have seen any new species evolve lately, we can not definatively prove that trans-species evolution can happen.

Evolution is a process which happens very slowly, and very gradually...

Imagine watching a plant for a few minutes, then concluding, that because we can't see it growing, the plant must not be growing at all...

[Person012345]

Why?

Because we lack definative proof that we all came from a bunch of bloody microbes.

Sorry to inform you that we do. Well, as definitive as you can get.

[Seperates]

Hmm... no. Especially since it has not hit the "Western World" as nearly as hard as it has many of the dogmatic Christian nations of Africa.

Do you know the traditional African belief about how one can cure STD and AIDS in particular?
I won't post it here because it's so offensive to any human being that I'll certainly catch flak for it.

Not very Christian. And also explains why it hit them so hard.

Do you know the traditional Christian belief on how to cure STDs and AIDS in particular?

There are none, because the Christian faith doesn't deal with the prevention of diseases rather than a few archaic rituals in the OT. And yet... they still advocate abstinence rather than protection and education, thus exasterbating the problem, because they KNOW that they KNOW what REALLY helps people.

And considering Catholic influence in the most badly hit areas... yeah, I'd say that they are pretty dogmatic Christians.

[Vault 1]

Exchange of bodily fluids?

With people you aren't married to and mostly among gays. Or junkies.
It only matters how most transmissions happen, not that they don't happen in other ways. They have to, that's the point, everyone pays the price.

But this is derailing. The point is, creation is a much more fitting explanation for HIV than evolution. If one was to create a virus to remind humanity of its sins, it's hard to imagine a better one. To think that evolution on its own came up with precisely that... sure, just how it randomly came up with humans.

[Person012345]

And so obviously god revealed the cure to all his loyal and devoted followers...

They have no need for a cure because they don't engage in activities that lead to getting it.

Have you ever even opened your bible?

[The Black Forrest]

Hath, for the last time, "Theory" in the scientific nomenclature is as close to a "fact" as you can get. Evolution happens. That is as evident as the cycling of day and night. The theory explains how it can create divergence in species, and thus explian the multitude that exist. And it is backed up by countless numbers of fossil, expirimental, and even observed speciation events. It is taught as theory... in the same manner as 1+1=2 is taught as theory.

Last time? This is the first time from you, IIRC.

Anyways, I am not going to argue whether or not it is true. However, I do not believe we have seen any new species evolve lately, we can not definatively prove that trans-species evolution can happen.

Take a look at Primate ABO glycosyltransferases.

Some would offer the liger.....

[Hathradic States]

They have no need for a cure because they don't engage in activities that lead to getting it.

Have you ever even opened your bible?

He is probably like me and just uses it to hit people. *nods*

[Person012345]

Hath, for the last time, "Theory" in the scientific nomenclature is as close to a "fact" as you can get. Evolution happens. That is as evident as the cycling of day and night. The theory explains how it can create divergence in species, and thus explian the multitude that exist. And it is backed up by countless numbers of fossil, expirimental, and even observed speciation events. It is taught as theory... in the same manner as 1+1=2 is taught as theory.

Last time? This is the first time from you, IIRC.

Anyways, I am not going to argue whether or not it is true. However, I do not believe we have seen any new species evolve lately, we can not definatively prove that trans-species evolution can happen.

I already posted this once in this thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Und ... d_mosquito

[Desperate Measures]

Exchange of bodily fluids?

With people you aren't married to and mostly among gays. Or junkies.
It only matters how most transmissions happen, not that they don't happen in other ways. They have to, that's the point, everyone pays the price.

But this is derailing. The point is, creation is a much more fitting explanation for HIV than evolution. If one was to create a virus to remind humanity of its sins, it's hard to imagine a better one. To think that evolution on its own came up with precisely that... sure, just how it randomly came up with humans.

This is based on your gut feeling. We should teach courses on your random gut feeling.

[The Black Forrest]

They have no need for a cure because they don't engage in activities that lead to getting it.

Exchange of bodily fluids?

Da gay sex!

[Manahakatouki]

Exchange of bodily fluids?

With people you aren't married to and mostly among gays. Or junkies.
It only matters how most transmissions happen, not that they don't happen in other ways. They have to, that's the point, everyone pays the price.

But this is derailing. The point is, creation is a much more fitting explanation for HIV than evolution. If one was to create a virus to remind humanity of its sins, it's hard to imagine a better one. To think that evolution on its own came up with precisely that... sure, just how it randomly came up with humans.

I wasn't involved in this debate, and I'm trying not to now...

But yeah, that all sounds quite silly...

AIDS can be spread to anyone, anytime, no matter how pure or innocent. How about it being spread through infected needles? Trying to give some sort of medication to someone with AIDS?

[Runfin]

Exchange of bodily fluids?

With people you aren't married to and mostly among gays. Or junkies.
It only matters how most transmissions happen, not that they don't happen in other ways. They have to, that's the point, everyone pays the price.

But this is derailing. The point is, creation is a much more fitting explanation for HIV than evolution. If one was to create a virus to remind humanity of its sins, it's hard to imagine a better one. To think that evolution on its own came up with precisely that... sure, just how it randomly came up with humans.

I hate to break it to you, but The Bubonic Plauge, that thing that killed lots of people, is very similar to HIV, that's way around 15% (Don't remember the exact amount) of the Anglo-Saxon population is immune to it

[Seperates]

Hath, for the last time, "Theory" in the scientific nomenclature is as close to a "fact" as you can get. Evolution happens. That is as evident as the cycling of day and night. The theory explains how it can create divergence in species, and thus explian the multitude that exist. And it is backed up by countless numbers of fossil, expirimental, and even observed speciation events. It is taught as theory... in the same manner as 1+1=2 is taught as theory.

Last time? This is the first time from you, IIRC.

Anyways, I am not going to argue whether or not it is true. However, I do not believe we have seen any new species evolve lately, we can not definatively prove that trans-species evolution can happen.

I've replied to you before on this issue. You might not have read it.

Hath, I don't think you know what "speciation" means...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation_event

There is no such thing as "trans-species evolution". And the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection in fact would in fact be invalidated if such a thing were to occur.

[Vault 1]

Do you know the traditional Christian belief on how to cure STDs and AIDS in particular?

I'm pretty sure it doesn't include raping young girls to transfer it to them.

Any society that considers such ways acceptable - that would consider them even if it actually worked - deserves to be hit a lot worse than it already is.

AIDS can be spread to anyone, anytime, no matter how pure or innocent.

As it's supposed to be. It's not a punishment per se - the punishment comes after death, in the form of eternal torment. AIDS/GRIDS is just a reminder. Unlike the Egypt Plagues, more selective.

But you aren't going to get proof of diving involvement (which perfect selectivity for sinners would be) handed to you on a silver platter, else there would be no place for faith.

There are none, because the Christian faith doesn't deal with the prevention of diseases rather than a few archaic rituals in the OT. And yet... they still advocate abstinence rather than protection and education,

Abstinence has 100% effectiveness.
Protection has pretty much 0% - you are going to go unprotected with your spouse anyway, and you have no business having intercourse with anyone other than your spouse.

[Lialoth]

Protection has pretty much 0% - you are going to go unprotected with your spouse anyway, and you have no business having intercourse with anyone other than your spouse.

[Citation Needed]

No really. Prove that condoms have a ZERO PERCENT success rate.

[Person012345]

Protection has pretty much 0% - you are going to go unprotected with your spouse anyway, and you have no business having intercourse with anyone other than your spouse.

[Citation Needed]

No really. Prove that condoms have a ZERO PERCENT success rate.

It's quite an odd claim because it would require condoms to significantly increase the rate of HIV transmission (I'm pretty sure even unprotected it's not 100%).

[Person012345]

You know what actually doesn't decrease the chance of getting HIV beyond random chance?

Faith.

[Seperates]

Exchange of bodily fluids?

With people you aren't married to and mostly among gays. Or junkies.
It only matters how most transmissions happen, not that they don't happen in other ways. They have to, that's the point, everyone pays the price.

But this is derailing. The point is, creation is a much more fitting explanation for HIV than evolution. If one was to create a virus to remind humanity of its sins, it's hard to imagine a better one. To think that evolution on its own came up with precisely that... sure, just how it randomly came up with humans.

Not at all. If one were to create a virus to remind humanity of it's "sins" one would imagine a disease that would kill on thought. Since, according to Jesus, thinking is as bad as doing.

[Vault 1]

No really. Prove that condoms have a ZERO PERCENT success rate.

Condoms are meant to be worn. They give no protection when not worn.
And you aren't supposed to wear them with your spouse.