People dropping US Citizenship

[Nyoronet]

As someone who despises the US, I'd give up my citizenship, were I able to leave the country. But it really isn't that easy, only the rich can afford to do so.

[Farnhamia]

As someone who despises the US, I'd give up my citizenship, were I able to leave the country. But it really isn't that easy, only the rich can afford to do so.

Not true. With some planning and effort, you can get a job overseas, move and renounce your citizenship. Actually, all you need to do is take a vacation to some other country and do it then. I swear, people today want everything delievered on a silver platter.

[Ethel mermania]

As someone who despises the US, I'd give up my citizenship, were I able to leave the country. But it really isn't that easy, only the rich can afford to do so.

Really?

All the folks who I know who either renounced citizenship, or became an ex-pat, did it for work. They were middle class, and worked in either sales, or were skilled engineers or techs. In parts of the world it is easier to get jobs, if you are not an american.

Its not that expensive, get a passport, take a bus to tijuana, go to the consulate, and fill out the paperwork. No one is keeping you here

[The Siberian Wilderness]

Move goalposts much? We were talking about americans being sent to gitmo, not foreigners.
You wanna talk about the right or wrong of gitmo, make a thread.

Considering the cop who sprayed the kid in nyc was fined by NYPD in excess of 5,000 dollars, I would say it was considered an unacceptable action by the department.

Ameican human rights history, compared to what, german? French? Russian? English? Thanks I'll keep my own.
That said, we should be discussing citizenship issues, got any thoughts on those?

Agreed on all counts recently near where I live a cop spent time in jail because some punk kid was calling the officer names so the cop used the taser on him. The officer was fined for malpractice, sued by family of kid, and when to jail for excessive force. Where I am from that would be polite treatment by police. That being said I worked very hard for my U.S. citizenship and would never give it up this has been a WONDERFUL place to live!

[The Siberian Wilderness]

People who give up their U.S. citizenship do not know how lucky they were to be born in a free nation! (not to say that there are not better ones but U.S. is one of the best!

[Brickistan]

Oh, so sorry...

I forgot that non-Americans don't matter. As long as the victims are brown-skinned and answers to the name of Muhammad or Ali, it's all okay.

As for cops being over-eager with the pepper-spray: I’d actually agree with you except that it appears way too systematic to be just a single “rogue cop”. Especially considering the scale of it and how it seems to be targeted at the left-wing protest movements.

Personally, were I an America I would, given my slightly left-leaning political belief (I would probably be considered nothing less than a dirty commie bastard by American standards) and the American human rights history, be looking to get the hell out of Dodge as soon as I possibly could. Sadly, Europe seems to become increasingly Americanized but given the alternatives then...

Move goalposts much? We were talking about americans being sent to gitmo, not foreigners.
You wanna talk about the right or wrong of gitmo, make a thread.

We’re talking about how Americas human rights history, as well as current laws, might prompt its citizens to leave.

Fact remains that not only does America have a lot of blood on their hands (but then again, so have many other countries) but the current law allows for the targeting of American citizens. That, on its own, should be enough to make people think about leaving.

Considering the cop who sprayed the kid in nyc was fined by NYPD in excess of 5,000 dollars, I would say it was considered an unacceptable action by the department.

I have no idea what you’re talking about. And, in any case, I’m not nearly as interested in single cases as the overall picture. Look, for example, at the overall treatment of OWS, the sad conditions of the prison-industrial complex (as well as it’s racially uneven impact), the pro-corporation law, the exesively heavy lobbying by companies...

The list goes on and on. It’s not just a single cop pepper spraying a protester, it’s the rot that has spread throughout the entire system.

Ameican human rights history, compared to what, german? French? Russian? English? Thanks I'll keep my own.
That said, we should be discussing citizenship issues, got any thoughts on those?

Why is the excuse always: but they do it too? For a country claiming to be the shining beacon of liberty, the US certainly has enough problems...

And that’s why the debate took this turn. As I said earlier, this very subject is why some might want to renounce their citizenship and move to another country.

And that, I think, also sums up my thoughts on this entire issue. Tax-issues aside, is it really so surprising that, for example, left-leaning people, gays, and atheists might want to leave? In fact, I’m slightly surprised that we’re not seeing more people leaving.

Personally, I’ve been to the states once. I don’t ever want to return there and I would most certainly not, barring some incredible catastrophe in Europe, move there. Being a dirty atheistic commie bastard, I doubt I would feel welcome stateside...

[Risottia]

Here in Turkey, it's worse - and sometimes, it's the only way. Hell, I doubt our police uses pepper spray/tear gas, it's terrible what they use. Drove through a cloud of it once...

Very likely CS (an asphyxiant). Forbidden for military use as a chemical weapon BUT allowed for use against internal protestors.
I remember quite well the Italian police using it on me in 2001 in Genova.

[Vistulange]

Here in Turkey, it's worse - and sometimes, it's the only way. Hell, I doubt our police uses pepper spray/tear gas, it's terrible what they use. Drove through a cloud of it once...

Very likely CS (an asphyxiant). Forbidden for military use as a chemical weapon BUT allowed for use against internal protestors.
I remember quite well the Italian police using it on me in 2001 in Genova.

That might be it, never looked it up. But it is horrible to even come in contact with the stuff.

[Maryginia]

Oh look, edgy leftists giving up something some people would literally die for. Ain't that great.

I wish someone would marry me so I'd get an instant ticket to America, and they'd get to move to this cold, socialist and depressing hellhole called Finland.

Oh look, an edgy rightist giving up something some people would literally die for. Ain't that great.

I wish someone would marry me so I'd get an instant ticket to Finland, and they'd get to move to this extremely hot, theocratic and annoying country called Israel.





See? I can make pointless comments too!

I'm possibly going to make the aliyah to Israel should I follow one of the Career paths and with a little luck work for Teva, I am going to take the Birthright trip when I turn 18.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Well, yes, that's true.

Feh, Real Men^TM don't let it cool.

Real Men use coke and mento's...

[The Siberian Wilderness]

In 2011, the U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services (USCIS) held more than 6000 naturalization ceremonies for over 692,000 green card holders who became new citizens.

1,788 Americans officially threw away their US citizenship in 2011.

I think the numbers speak for themselves. If it were such a terrible place why did so many more come in than went out? Because those people know how much horribly worse things are in countries with actual human rights issues.

[Farnhamia]

Feh, Real Men^TM don't let it cool.

Real Men use coke and mento's...

I ... I ...

All that came to me was James Doohan going, "The containment field is nae gonna hold, Captain!"

[Farnhamia]

Very likely CS (an asphyxiant). Forbidden for military use as a chemical weapon BUT allowed for use against internal protestors.
I remember quite well the Italian police using it on me in 2001 in Genova.

That might be it, never looked it up. But it is horrible to even come in contact with the stuff.

That's sort of the idea, isn't it?

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Real Men use coke and mento's...

I ... I ...

All that came to me was James Doohan going, "The containment field is nae gonna hold, Captain!"

Yeah I was quite shocked myself!

[Disserbia]

Dropping US citizenship seems stupid. So many people want it, its a privilege, at least in my opinion. I'm so thankful to be a US citizen and live in this country.

Lots of people want coffee enemas, too. Is it stupid to refuse one?

I know you think you're clever, but you've missed me point entirely. So get back on topic, or stop quoting me.

[Farnhamia]

Lots of people want coffee enemas, too. Is it stupid to refuse one?

I know you think you're clever, but you've missed me point entirely. So get back on topic, or stop quoting me.

Oh, hush. That answer sparked one of our better cascades of humor.

[Intangelon]

source

It seems that as of late a lot of people have begun dropping their citizenships, the latest in this trend is Denise Rich. I first heard about this in May with Facebook Co-Founder Eduardo Saverin dropping his US citizenship. Many people think it has economic motivations (including me) but Denise Rich claims that she merely wishes to spend more time in Europe, but how would being a US citizen stop you from doing so? Another fact that I found interesting from the IRS was that the amount of people turning in their passports has gone up 700% since 2008 from a mere 200+ to now nearly 1,800. One thing that I thought about was how dangerous it can be to give up your US citizenship, so why would you do so? I mean without a citizenship, you can be tossed in Guantanamo Bay and be tortured and killed with no trial or anything of the sorts. You have no right to free-speech or any of the rights guaranteed to you as a US Citizen. So why do you think that people are giving up their US citizenship NS? Is it purely for economic reasons? are people scared that the US may collapse soon so they are cutting their ties before it goes under? or are they really doing it for their own various purposes? how do you feel about this NSGers? would you give up your US citizenship (let's assume for the sake of argument that you do have one)?

I think it is purely for economic reasons with perhaps a little fear on the side of things. In my opinion if you were afraid of a collapsing USA, why would you still reside in the country? wouldn't you leave? I also think that US citizenship wouldn't constrict you in any way internationally, in fact it may help you if you are ever taken hostage or something. To be honest, as a patriot, it makes me kind of angry to see people give up their citizenship seeing how many people in this country would love to have US citizenship, it also makes me angry that anyone would willingly give up any ties to America simply because they want a bit more money. I would never ever give up my US citizenship, I followed the NDAA, SOPA, PIPA, ACTA and the PATRIOT Act, I know that my rights just as a US citizen are being stripped let alone if I weren't to have one at all, it sends chills up my spine thinking how the government could abuse me.

Watch those traitors cry when they need that citizenship

It's just one of the ways people want to show others "See I am all left wing and I am like super cool for denouncing the country that fed me for the past XX years!"

People moans nonstop about the negatives but they have forgot how much protection and safety they were born in. Imagine being born in north korea, or other extreme countries, gl/hf denouncing your citizenship, let alone leaving the country.

I dont understand how people can just burn the bridge they walked on.

PSST - point of thread = not all are left wing. Pls read kthxbai.

[Ethel mermania]

I know you think you're clever, but you've missed me point entirely. So get back on topic, or stop quoting me.

Oh, hush. That answer sparked one of our better cascades of humor.

Sez you, the visual imaging of coca cola and mento's. . ..

I'm never getting a colonosopy again.

[Greed and Death]

As someone who despises the US, I'd give up my citizenship, were I able to leave the country. But it really isn't that easy, only the rich can afford to do so.

Not true. With some planning and effort, you can get a job overseas, move and renounce your citizenship. Actually, all you need to do is take a vacation to some other country and do it then. I swear, people today want everything delievered on a silver platter.

I want to declare my home an indpendent Republic.

[NERVUN]

Oh look, edgy leftists giving up something some people would literally die for. Ain't that great.

I wish someone would marry me so I'd get an instant ticket to America, and they'd get to move to this cold, socialist and depressing hellhole called Finland.

You are aware that marriage to a US citizen doesn't actually GIVE you an insta-ticket, right?

[NERVUN]

...but how would being a US citizen stop you from doing so?

Technically you got to have a visa, and you have to renew it periodically.
But don't let you be fooled. It's all about not paying taxes.

I mean without a citizenship, you can be tossed in Guantanamo Bay and be tortured and killed with no trial or anything of the sorts.

No. Human rights apply to people, not just to citizens.

You have no right to free-speech or any of the rights guaranteed to you as a US Citizen.

Again, no.

Also: it's not like the US is the only place where you have rights, you know...

So why do you think that people are giving up their US citizenship NS? Is it purely for economic tax reasons?

Yes.

No, not always. For one thing, renouncing doesn't mean leaving your tax burden in the US because the IRS doesn't view that as the end.

[NERVUN]

source

It seems that as of late a lot of people have begun dropping their citizenships, the latest in this trend is Denise Rich. I first heard about this in May with Facebook Co-Founder Eduardo Saverin dropping his US citizenship. Many people think it has economic motivations (including me) but Denise Rich claims that she merely wishes to spend more time in Europe, but how would being a US citizen stop you from doing so? Another fact that I found interesting from the IRS was that the amount of people turning in their passports has gone up 700% since 2008 from a mere 200+ to now nearly 1,800. One thing that I thought about was how dangerous it can be to give up your US citizenship, so why would you do so? I mean without a citizenship, you can be tossed in Guantanamo Bay and be tortured and killed with no trial or anything of the sorts. You have no right to free-speech or any of the rights guaranteed to you as a US Citizen. So why do you think that people are giving up their US citizenship NS? Is it purely for economic reasons? are people scared that the US may collapse soon so they are cutting their ties before it goes under? or are they really doing it for their own various purposes? how do you feel about this NSGers? would you give up your US citizenship (let's assume for the sake of argument that you do have one)?

I think it is purely for economic reasons with perhaps a little fear on the side of things. In my opinion if you were afraid of a collapsing USA, why would you still reside in the country? wouldn't you leave? I also think that US citizenship wouldn't constrict you in any way internationally, in fact it may help you if you are ever taken hostage or something. To be honest, as a patriot, it makes me kind of angry to see people give up their citizenship seeing how many people in this country would love to have US citizenship, it also makes me angry that anyone would willingly give up any ties to America simply because they want a bit more money. I would never ever give up my US citizenship, I followed the NDAA, SOPA, PIPA, ACTA and the PATRIOT Act, I know that my rights just as a US citizen are being stripped let alone if I weren't to have one at all, it sends chills up my spine thinking how the government could abuse me.

Most likely reason is to avoid taxes, the same reason so many wealthy Americans have their fortunes offshore, etc. If the person has a lot of money, this is almost certainly the reason they are doing it, no matter what other excuse they give.

There are possibly a few who are - for example - going to live in the Middle East, where being a US citizen might be a handicap... but then, just being 'American' (with or without citizenship) would probably mark them as a target, so it seems like an unconvincing reason.

It's very unlikely that any of the other reasons people are throwing around are realistic for almost anyone. It's not because 'America is going to collapse' and it's not because 'America has a horrible human rights record'.

Given that the UK didn't recognize dual citizenship for quite some time, this is a rather silly statement coming from you.

[Ifreann]

Lots of people want coffee enemas, too. Is it stupid to refuse one?

I know you think you're clever, but you've missed me point entirely.

Was the perceived popularity of US citizenship not part of your point?

So get back on topic, or stop quoting me.

---

Oh look, edgy leftists giving up something some people would literally die for. Ain't that great.

I wish someone would marry me so I'd get an instant ticket to America, and they'd get to move to this cold, socialist and depressing hellhole called Finland.

You are aware that marriage to a US citizen doesn't actually GIVE you an insta-ticket, right?

You mean your wife won't be voting for the POTUS come November?

[NERVUN]

[url=http://ph.news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/denise-rich-drops-us-citizenship-29928295.html]
-Snip-

You do realize that people who are natural born US citizens are citizens for life... right? Gaining citizenship in another country doesn't mean that someone (natural born) can completely revoke their citizenship. Changing passports means little.

Uh... no... you CAN renounce your citizenship. It costs a lot and takes some time, but it can be done.

[NERVUN]

I believe the US still taxes its citizens living abroad?

Less than resident citizens iirc.

Currently the first $92k is 'free'.