Stupidest things that your school system has done

[Mavorpen]

You are putting your hopes up too high.

He's really not.

[Costa Fiero]

Introducing a system whereby lower-educated people don't have to work as hard to gain the same qualifications as someone who has worked hard in a job environment where none of the potential employers actually know what a good grade is and which isn't.

Or as the government like to call it, NCEA. That's why I completely and utterly regards said "qualifications" as meaningless and currently studying for a diploma. That's an actual achievement.

[Abatael]

I never knew you went to a public school.

I sure don't go to a private one.

I do. I never really thought about what type of school you go to though.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

You are putting your hopes up too high.

He's really not.

unemployment. :-(

[Abatael]

You are putting your hopes up too high.

He's really not.

That doesn't mean you're just gonna get a high-paying job automatically.

[Mavorpen]

He's really not.

That doesn't mean you're just gonna get a high-paying job automatically.

Great. Doing what the teacher says all the time and getting worthless grades is awesome!

Worthless? I get A's and B's. Those grades are what will get me into college, and bam, I can get a high paying job.

[Priori]

When I was going through the process of dropping out, some official at the school board told me I'm allowed to drop out, but he wouldn't let me.

Wut.

He said I was allowed, but he wouldn't give me the papers because the board would lose money if I dropped out.

[Jormengand]

You are putting your hopes up too high.

He's really not.

Mavorpen: actually providing evidence like a boss. Where do you find all this stuff?

[Mavorpen]

He's really not.

Mavorpen: actually providing evidence like a boss. Where do you find all this stuff?

Sometimes Google, sometimes I save them while searching through old news on sites, etc.

[Abatael]

That doesn't mean you're just gonna get a high-paying job automatically.

Worthless? I get A's and B's. Those grades are what will get me into college, and bam, I can get a high paying job.

That was more directed towards my friend. I don't know why I quoted you for it. I kinda added on.

[Tsaraine]

Introducing a system whereby lower-educated people don't have to work as hard to gain the same qualifications as someone who has worked hard in a job environment where none of the potential employers actually know what a good grade is and which isn't.

Or as the government like to call it, NCEA. That's why I completely and utterly regards said "qualifications" as meaningless and currently studying for a diploma. That's an actual achievement.

Ah, NCEA. I was fortunate enough to get out of school the year before NCEA was instituted. The year after, they screwed up implementing the new system so badly they had to refund everyone's points.

At my high school, the principal's favourite line was "You're all mediocre". As in "Before I came here I thought this was a good school, but now I find you're all mediocre!" Note that before he became acting temporary principal and then real principal, the previous principal had been arrested and (IIRC) jailed for falsely reporting the school's student numbers to get more money out of the government.

The only school counselor was the Geography teacher, despite him having no training at that job whatsoever. A real counselor came from another school every Wednesday morning, and you had to make an appointment to see her. Which nobody did because everybody knew how easy it was to get the requesting-an-appointment slips out of the box you put them in.

Consequently, once I'd managed to stop actually attacking other students and sublimated my seething rage at the rest of the student body into crippling depression, they didn't give a shit, and didn't care that I was falling asleep in class (once in the middle of a Biology test). In hindsight, I should never have stayed there for 7th Form, but dropping out would mean admitting failure, and I'd have been damned before I failed compared to the shambling, mindless corpses draped in human flesh that were my classmates.

The year after I left school, I became your Moderator. Aren't you glad?

[Jormengand]

The year after I left school, I became your Moderator. Aren't you glad?

Yes. Of course. I live to serve.

Anyway, your situation does seem to have been a bit dire. I'm glad you're out!

[United States of Natan]

in my school, the teacher marked about 10 questions wrong. the catch: it was a high honors class. the teacher got fired.

[Jormengand]

in my school, the teacher marked about 10 questions wrong. the catch: it was a high honors class. the teacher got fired.

That's not really the school system, in fact the school system did exactly what it should have.

[Kirrig]

The best public schools are all in wealthy and affluent neighborhoods. Poor neighborhoods get second class seats.

The worst private schools are full of rich people and the same is true of the best of them as well. What we have here is a failure to allocate funding sensibly.

In other words, you want America's economy to be held back.

Don't see how that is relevant.

The school system is one of the few things I support to be privatized and run as the principal wants it to be, so we can choose the best from different methods.

Schools are very hard to run at profit. You can charge excessive fees and have cheaply made but very expensive uniforms and do a hell of a lot of fundraising and you're still going to need government funding to be able to attract enough students.

What you want is a school system able to make more choices. Take a look at how things run here. State schools can choose to offer the national qualification (NCEA) or something else (usually Cambridge). Auckland Grammar is a famous example... the principal decided that Cambridge was the way to go because it's better for his students in his mind.

In other words, you want America's economy to be held back.

If school made America's economy better. Why doesn't it show? For all you know we could be educating the brightest and most hard-working pupils just so they can leave the country and find jobs elsewhere. In fact we probably are.

The Phenomenon you describe is known as brain drain.

Also, the effect of education on the workforce does show. Ever noticed that there are increasingly few jobs with minimal academic qualifications? Employers employ those with the best qualifications.

Second class seats are better than nothing. Poor families can't afford private schools. At least they will be learning something in public school. Always better than nothing.

Useless shit is nothing.

Learning to read and write is not useless and nor is it nothing. Not being able to read and write is useless... changing economy reflected again.

With regards to the seating, if one can sit down without a high risk of falling off it's good enough. A similar rule applies to tables and desks, if doesn't wobble it's good enough (assuming that it's a decent height and falt surface).

We've known for the longest time that public education is important in the economy. I'm honestly not surprised you don't.

You've got it all backwards, public education harms the economy, because we're paying for so many useless classes and staff that should and have to be cut. As well as forcing people to invest in children who just may decide to leave the country with the education they received. That's a lost of an investment.

Do you believe in universal education? It seems not with this persistent advocacy of privatised education.

You've got it all backwards, public education harms the economy, because we're paying for so many useless classes and staff that should and have to be cut. As well as forcing people to invest in children who just may decide to leave the country with the education they received. That's a lost of an investment.

Second of all, your link wrongly assumes that the causes of poorer performances are directly linked to educational attainment. This isn't true. It's linked to genetics and cognitive ability, obviously.

I. Scientists have known for a long time that environment is a big factor in intelligence. It isn't all genetics.
II. "Cognitive ability" is virtually worthless if you are uneducated.
III. Education allows people to do skilled labour. Skilled labour is important for the economy. You can't do skilled labour if you haven't been taught the skills required.
IV. Are you under some illusion that Americans and Europeans are leaving their developed wealthy nations en masse to go work in poor impoverished nations?

They're more likely to go work in another wealthy nation (eg. Australia). However, all talk of "brain drain" in this thread so far has been hypothetical.

I'm waiting on your to explain these "useless classes" and provided sources for anything you're saying.

Have you not been to school? The value of every class is subjective. One student might be able to learn a lot on his/her own, and another student might not be interested or need much education beyond the rudimentary. An obvious class that comes to mind would be computer tech, which effectively spends hours teaching kids things they could learn on a 30 second google search.

That's nice. Let's not invest in anything then.

You're right, I shouldn't have to. It's a parents duty.

Poor performances have yet to actually be linked to genetics and "cognitive ability." Let me guess, you think IQ tests are valid. There are two main things that cause children to do poor: parenting and the way the education system is set up. Parenting is actually extremely important, and parenting is the most important factor in education. So, if anything we should put the time and effort to emphasize to parents that they are important, while at the same time reforming the public education system.

I thought it would be pretty obvious that smart people usually perform better at school. See what I mean now by a lack of common sense?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you had bad experiences with public education, so now you're on a mission to get rid of it for everyone else.

No, I just want my taxes cut, so I can make more money. Close though. I don't want to pay into your stupid school system. If it's so important to you guys, then you should hike your own taxes and leave people like me out.

If education were privatised the government would: a) not get another term and b) not cut taxes that people are already willing to pay. If education were privatised and the government remained in favour of universal education the same, if not more, quantity would have to be spent on education.

Here's the thing with smart people. Some are lazy and so don't do well at all. Some aren't smart and just work solidly at things (I believe it can make up for a number of IQ points... not that that's a good way to measure intelligence). Some just look good whatever they're doing,

"The value of any class is subjective" is a falsehood. One goes in and measures the worth quite easily. Whiteboard $100, carpet $2000 and so on. Each subject when taken at face value can be measured by how much worth it generates relative to the number who take it. And some are indespensible in the modern age... learning to read (and write) being the obvious example.

School uniforms are a waste of time and money.

Fixed.

Not really. There have been a number of school uniform debates in my time here. There's a reason why your side leaves them.

Uniforms are annoying, I do not like them but they are a better call for a school than not.

Not to mention Google Searches don't actually teach you anything.

I beg to differ. I've learned far more using Google than I have from school past the 8th grade.

I seriously doubt that: Google is a search engine and different sites found through it are hopefully better able to teach you. You'd know this if you knew that there's a reason why Google cannot be cited as a source in a bibliography.

Now, what subjects did you take?

They shouldn't have to Google search. They should know it themselves. The information Google provides is derived from where people have decided to share their knowledge on the internet.

This post makes no sense.

You're not required to attend public school system, but that isn't the State's problem. The state is there to provide basic services for the community. One of these services is education. That you choose a private option is entirely your problem, not the State's.

I am required to at an early age, it's compulsory. If I'm not required to attend I shouldn't be required to pay either. I should get a tax deduction.

The state isn't there to provide basic services. If they were they would provide, heating, electricity, food and gas. The market is there to provide basic services, not the state. The state is supposed to protect the market/people/law, and carry out justice.

There are some services that the market cannot provide. This is an economic truth as those services are unprofitable. An example would be policing.

Yeah, no.

Yes, using google I can navigate myself to many sites that have much to offer in the way of education. Startling revelation! by reading you're able to learn things, fascinating. Which brings me to another point: Another stupid things that school do is make me write essays, but won't allow me to source wikipedia.

Are you still at school then?

Now, they do that because they don't want you to put too much faith in Wikipedia. Also, if one isn't able to use the citations in Wikipedia as sources themselves than I believe one shouldn't be able to use Wikipedia at all. On top of this, over reliance on one source (especially if said source is a wiki) will hurt the credibility.

Yes, using google I can navigate myself to many sites that have much to offer in the way of education. Startling revelation! by reading you're able to learn things, fascinating. Which brings me to another point: Another stupid things that school do is make me write essays, but won't allow me to source wikipedia.

That's not stupid. Wikipedia is peer edited, and people have made unsourced claims, made misinformed evaluations, and otherwise vandalized Wikipedia pages before, so you can't trust it 100% of the time.

If it were up to me, I wouldn't let people source Wikipedia either.

Also, does the phrase "not everything on the Internet is true" come to mind?

No. I have to be able to source Wikipedia. If I can't how can I find an unreliable source that I can at least have some faith in? Also, it's take away the joy of, "And I didn't use Wikipedia at all." In a serious context banning sources is a bad idea, for a simple homework essay it isn't.

Education is a public service in the interest of the State.



The State has a vested interest in services like healthcare and education, on which the protection of the market/people/law you speak of rely very heavily on. How can the State carry out justice without educated judges/prosecutors/public defenders? How can it protect the people without educated law enforcement officers? How can it protect the market without the necessary legislation coming from, oh surprise, educated people in charge?

Self-defeating argument there.

I don't think you realize that there was a time before public schools existed. There were still people effectively leading the government, and people educated themselves using books.

You could make the same argument that the state has a vested interest in many other areas too. X is needed, because x is necessary. Without state x, catastrophe would follow. It all falls down when you mention that another x not provided by the state is also necessary, yet is provided effectively without state intervention. If public education were a necessity, then many other public services would be needed: public supermarkets, apple stores etc.

You'll also note that education was much rarer and exclusive back then. There's a reason why the literacy rate of Ancient Athens took thousands of years to replicate (over two anyway).

Again, you assume the market can either do everything or nothing. If it is possibly profitable the market can handle it... if it isn't it can't. This is why public supermarkets don't exists and why the police force isn't privatised.

That's not stupid. Wikipedia is peer edited, and people have made unsourced claims, made misinformed evaluations, and otherwise vandalized Wikipedia pages before, so you can't trust it 100% of the time.

If it were up to me, I wouldn't let people source Wikipedia either.

Also, does the phrase "not everything on the Internet is true" come to mind?

Instances of vandalism on Wikipedia are overt, and far and few in between.

That's when the vandals are stupid. For example, one could go to the sunrise and sunset industry pages and change the names. Anyone who didn't know what they were already would be stumped.

Not sometimes, most of the time.

There's a reason why employers will laugh you out of an interview if you put on your application "Google" for level of Education.

They think that some one with a college or highschool education will be either more intelligent or have more work ethic. Both of those are illusions and they're both about the fall

Which brings me to another stupid things that my school system has done. Expand their campuses in light of the largest education bubble in the united states.

P.S. I don't care if you take me seriously.

You wouldn't last in academia. Being able to be taken seriously is important. (Which brings us back to Wikipedia and its credibility.)

Good to know, now I can just mark you off as a satirist. *nods*

I'm very sincere in my beliefs, or else I would not waste time typing out the paragraphs in the first place.

That's just the sort of thing I'd expect to hear from someone who wasn't.

Instances of [citations needed] are not exactly far and few between. That's why teachers tell you if you do use Wikipedia, use the citation itself as a source.

By the way, why do you ignore my posts when they prove you wrong?

I haven't ignored your posts.

Before public education, the church was the one educating people. Moreover, before public education, only a small elite could even comprehend things being passed around during ages of expanding knowledge. Needless to say, thank to public education, information has spread much more easily, churches don't control education, etc. So, if your point is that public education didn't help us, you're ignorant of history. Maybe you shouldn't learn history from Google.

Wrong, technology has been the greatest expander of education in the world, not public schooling. The advent of printing was the harbinger of educational enlightenment in the information age. It made knowledge much more accessible and easier to comprehend.

Only to those who could read. Tell me, are you familiar with why shop signs used to have pictures of what they did as a matter of course?

Wrong, technology has been the greatest expander of education in the world, not public schooling. The advent of printing was the harbinger of educational enlightenment in the information age. It made knowledge much more accessible and easier to comprehend.

Actually, no it didn't. The printing press just made it easier for the elite to become more elite and to use propaganda and thus manipulate people. Public education taken over by the state stopped this and allowed more access to objective information and allowed more people to learn.

Actually, printing did make knowledge more accessible. To deny that is foolish. However, it was subject to the same flaws as Wikipedia is today which is where your point applies.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/med ... 52237552/1
http://www.iqtestexperts.com/iq-education.php

What work ethic has to do with this, I have no clue.

Education does have an effect on IQ, whether it be positive or negative, I'll yield to do that. So does diet, illness and many other environmental effects. The large gaps in IQ, specifically between families. cannot be explained through environmental factors. The gains would have to be a lot larger than 3 % gain due to an increase of mandatory education.

For instance blacks on average consistently score less than whites and east Asians on IQ tests. Despite the increase in socio-economic conditions, and the wide availability of schools, the gap only persists. [1]This can only be explained by the genetic explanation.

Read about the Flynn Effect.

Obviously, you don't seem to understand my problem. School is meant to educate people, but despite the fact that the more people are educated than ever we're still getting dumber. Test scores are dropping. Even our culture has grown to reflect the failing state of academia.

this is exactly the sort of lazy, unthinking conventional 'wisdom' that a good education should stamp out. because even a cursory glance at any of the actual scores shows we are doing better and better. especially among groups at the bottom. the only sorts of tests that have shown no improvement or even declines are ones where we have added a ton of people who previously wouldn't have taken it at all before - like the SATs now that many states just have everyone in high school take them.

Ah, 'grade inflation" which I'm sure Yandere Schoolgirls will be pleased to know is viewed with suspicion and dislike.

Wow. I just don't even know how to react to this. I go to a public school and I get a good edcuation.

I never knew you went to a public school.

The default assumption should be that people were educated in a state school. It is, after all, more common.

in my school, the teacher marked about 10 questions wrong. the catch: it was a high honors class. the teacher got fired.

That's not really the school system, in fact the school system did exactly what it should have.

Unless he means that the answers provided by the teacher during marking were correct and that it was unacceptable to have an "honours class" end up with ten questions wrong.

Introducing a system whereby lower-educated people don't have to work as hard to gain the same qualifications as someone who has worked hard in a job environment where none of the potential employers actually know what a good grade is and which isn't.

Or as the government like to call it, NCEA. That's why I completely and utterly regards said "qualifications" as meaningless and currently studying for a diploma. That's an actual achievement.

Ah, NCEA. I was fortunate enough to get out of school the year before NCEA was instituted. The year after, they screwed up implementing the new system so badly they had to refund everyone's points.

At my high school, the principal's favourite line was "You're all mediocre". As in "Before I came here I thought this was a good school, but now I find you're all mediocre!" Note that before he became acting temporary principal and then real principal, the previous principal had been arrested and (IIRC) jailed for falsely reporting the school's student numbers to get more money out of the government.

The only school counselor was the Geography teacher, despite him having no training at that job whatsoever. A real counselor came from another school every Wednesday morning, and you had to make an appointment to see her. Which nobody did because everybody knew how easy it was to get the requesting-an-appointment slips out of the box you put them in.

Consequently, once I'd managed to stop actually attacking other students and sublimated my seething rage at the rest of the student body into crippling depression, they didn't give a shit, and didn't care that I was falling asleep in class (once in the middle of a Biology test). In hindsight, I should never have stayed there for 7th Form, but dropping out would mean admitting failure, and I'd have been damned before I failed compared to the shambling, mindless corpses draped in human flesh that were my classmates.

The year after I left school, I became your Moderator. Aren't you glad?

NCEA's changed a bit since those days. No more unit standards and the credit counts have often been changed (I have three six credit standards this year for example). Also, there's now the excellence and merit endorsements and the rather pointless "subject endorsements" which are such because they aren't consistent between schools.

Anyway, you both seem to have attended dodgy schools, if you know what I mean. On the other hand, whenever I'm on a trip with my school someone says, "South Auckland represent."

I would suggest that the phrase "peer edited" is removed. Far too similar to "peer reviewed".

[The God-Realm]

You are putting your hopes up too high.

He's really not.

I don't really trust government sources.

[Slarvainian]

I still say stupidest thing my school system had was a 4 point grading system. The teacher could give you a one question test. If you got it wrong you get a zero, a 1 you get a 25, a 2 is 50, 3 is 75, 4 is 100

though let's say you started with a 78 and you got the one question test wrong. your mark can drop down to as low as 40-50 range. If you had a 78 and got that one question right, well your mark could move up to the high 80's

I still say stupidest thing my school system had was a 4 point grading system. The teacher could give you a one question test. If you got it wrong you get a zero, a 1 you get a 25, a 2 is 50, 3 is 75, 4 is 100

Though let's say you started with a 78 and you got the one question wrong. Your mark can drop down to as low as 40-50 range. If you had a 78 and got that one question right, well your mark could move up to the high 80's

[The God-Realm]

I still say stuoedest thing my school system had was a 4 point grading system. The teacher could give you a one questoon test. If you got it wrong you get a zero, a 1 you get a 25, a 2 is 50, 3 is 75, 4 is 100

though let's say you started with a 78 and yo got the one question test wrong. your mark can drop down to as low as 40-50 range. If you had a 78 and got that one question right, well your mark could move up to the high 80's

I still say stupidest thing my school system had was a 4 point grading system. The teacher could give you a one question test. If you got it wrong you get a zero, a 1 you get a 25, a 2 is 50, 3 is 75, 4 is 100

Though let's say you started with a 78 and you got the one question wrong. Your mark can drop down to as low as 40-50 range. If you had a 78 and got that one question right, well your mark could move up to the high 80's

Obviously your school had creative spelling.

[Slarvainian]

I still say stuoedest thing my school system had was a 4 point grading system. The teacher could give you a one questoon test. If you got it wrong you get a zero, a 1 you get a 25, a 2 is 50, 3 is 75, 4 is 100

though let's say you started with a 78 and yo got the one question test wrong. your mark can drop down to as low as 40-50 range. If you had a 78 and got that one question right, well your mark could move up to the high 80's

I still say stupidest thing my school system had was a 4 point grading system. The teacher could give you a one question test. If you got it wrong you get a zero, a 1 you get a 25, a 2 is 50, 3 is 75, 4 is 100

Though let's say you started with a 78 and you got the one question wrong. Your mark can drop down to as low as 40-50 range. If you had a 78 and got that one question right, well your mark could move up to the high 80's

Obviously your school had creative spelling.

I accidently posted the unedited version

[The God-Realm]

Obviously your school had creative spelling.

I accidently posted the unedited version

K. Spellcheck is bad.

[Ulvena]

One major difference between rich and poor nations: Education. The U.S has a public education system. It sucks compared to China, Korea, Japan, England, France, etc. but it's still adequate to keep the U.S' literacy rate from plummeting. You know my country of Korea fought to give the average citizen the ability to read and write during the 1500s?

Schools must teach children how to read and write so they can express their opinions and articulate it how they want it.. How to do mathematics so when they work at factories or offices, they can understand and calculate numbers. Learn history as to not fall to the repeating cycle of history.

[Free Soviets]

this is exactly the sort of lazy, unthinking conventional 'wisdom' that a good education should stamp out. because even a cursory glance at any of the actual scores shows we are doing better and better. especially among groups at the bottom. the only sorts of tests that have shown no improvement or even declines are ones where we have added a ton of people who previously wouldn't have taken it at all before - like the SATs now that many states just have everyone in high school take them.

Ah, 'grade inflation" which I'm sure Yandere Schoolgirls will be pleased to know is viewed with suspicion and dislike.

hard to inflate grades on a test that has been given at the same difficultly level for decades and is scored straight.

[United States of Natan]

One major difference between rich and poor nations: Education. The U.S has a public education system. It sucks compared to China, Korea, Japan, England, France, etc. but it's still adequate to keep the U.S' literacy rate from plummeting. You know my country of Korea fought to give the average citizen the ability to read and write during the 1500s?

Schools must teach children how to read and write so they can express their opinions and articulate it how they want it.. How to do mathematics so when they work at factories or offices, they can understand and calculate numbers. Learn history as to not fall to the repeating cycle of history.

you do understand that in the U.S. children are required to go to school, right? legally, a parent or guardian will be arrested if their child does not attend school.

[Heleventia]

My school made us wear those white labcoats and "eye protect" while working in chemistry lab.

[SaintB]

One of the local school districts banned the Lord of the Rings books from the school libraries and from being used as a teaching aid in English classes after the movies came out because members of the Parent/Teacher Organization (mostly parents) who have never read the actual books complained about them being violent.