Civil War in Syria, what do you think?

[Andaluciae]

Nah. The Syrian Army just didn't give a Fuck. Pop pop!

Go read the reports of the events from like February onwards. All sides, and compare. I'll outline it for you.
Arab Spring
Peaceful protests
Protests violently smashed
Protesters try again
No Joy
Protesters defend themselves from thugs attacking them.
Syrian army goes ape on protesters
Protesters go to ground
Syrian artillery and eventually air force decides surburbia makes great target practice.

And for God's sake, do some of your own research. If you are so right, find your own proof that tells you you are so right. And not government reports. UN is acceptable, but no one else. Find the journalists' accounts.

I'm poking fun at the previous guy. I gave a link of the heavy shelling of Grozny in Chechnya, just for comparison sake.

For what the Syrian military is doing now, well, there's some video that's just basically nonchalant blasting away at the rebels.

[Shofercia]

So if the UN imposes a no-fly zone, Russia will stop it?

That's nice to know. As long as you get Putin's support, you get protected even if the UN comes after you.

Russia will veto to it from ever happening, with their permanant chair on the security council and all.

This is why the Un is such a joke, just like the LoN was before.

Erm, UN isn't a joke as much as the LoN was. UN's objective is to prevent wars from escalating, not to prevent wars from starting, and they're doing a decent job. Since the existence of the UN, we've had no wars between major powers, except the Korean War, and that one came to a conclusion *knock on wood*

[Wamitoria]

Purpose: rebellions bleed. Think about - you're a smart guy. News sources need scandals.

No. You know exactly why the Russians aren't supporting the rebellion, and you're trying to punt on the issue by accusing western news of bias.

Russia has supported Assad (until now, at least) because United Russia saw it's poll numbers drop spectacularly after they didn't prevent intervention in Libya.

Anyone who thinks that this will start WWIII has been reading way to much Tom Clancy.

And if Russia thinks they can stop unilateral western intervention through the UN then they're stupid. Very stupid.

They may be able to stop a no-fly zone, but they will not be able to stop the west from arming the rebels.

I still think the Angolan scenario's more likely, unless one of the sides scores a major victory.

Nah, the Angolan scenario requires both sides to be either relatively equal in strength. The rebels appear to have a massive advantage in both civilian support and in outside support. Assad may have even been wounded in the attack that killed the Defense Minister.

[The Taryegeans]

Russia will veto to it from ever happening, with their permanant chair on the security council and all.

This is why the Un is such a joke, just like the LoN was before.

Erm, UN isn't a joke as much as the LoN was. UN's objective is to prevent wars from escalating, not to prevent wars from starting, and they're doing a decent job. Since the existence of the UN, we've had no wars between major powers, except the Korean War, and that one came to a conclusion *knock on wood*

Conclusion? They've been at war for fifty years and every time one of them fucking sneezes the other is ready to go back to war. Yep, great conclusion there.

The UN does a better job than the LoN, this I will admit. But they're still a fucking joke.

[Wamitoria]

Erm, UN isn't a joke as much as the LoN was. UN's objective is to prevent wars from escalating, not to prevent wars from starting, and they're doing a decent job. Since the existence of the UN, we've had no wars between major powers, except the Korean War, and that one came to a conclusion *knock on wood*

Conclusion? They've been at war for fifty years and every time one of them fucking sneezes the other is ready to go back to war. Yep, great conclusion there.

The UN does a better job than the LoN, this I will admit. But they're still a fucking joke.

The UN works perfectly when all sides agree to do the right thing. Unfortunately, sometimes internal politics prevents that.

[Rio Cana]

Some say this could start WW III.

Anyone who thinks that this will start WWIII has been reading way to much Tom Clancy.

And if Russia thinks they can stop unilateral western intervention through the UN then they're stupid. Very stupid.

They may be able to stop a no-fly zone, but they will not be able to stop the west from arming the rebels.

The big question is do you want to risk it. The Russian President cannot blink this time. If he does Russia will be seen has weak. For the US and NATO the problem is that since the 80's they have been winning wars left and right and most likely think it will continue. But Russias and Chinas military are not second or third rate like Argentina, Panama, Grenada, Iraq or Libya. NY CIty SWAT team could have taken Grenada.

[The Taryegeans]

Conclusion? They've been at war for fifty years and every time one of them fucking sneezes the other is ready to go back to war. Yep, great conclusion there.

The UN does a better job than the LoN, this I will admit. But they're still a fucking joke.

The UN works perfectly when all sides agree to do the right thing. Unfortunately, sometimes internal politics prevents that.

The League worked perfectly when all sides agreed to do the right thing. What happens when they don't agree? Nothing get's done.

[Tmutarakhan]

Erm, UN isn't a joke as much as the LoN was. UN's objective is to prevent wars from escalating, not to prevent wars from starting, and they're doing a decent job. Since the existence of the UN, we've had no wars between major powers, except the Korean War, and that one came to a conclusion *knock on wood*

Conclusion? They've been at war for fifty years and every time one of them fucking sneezes the other is ready to go back to war. Yep, great conclusion there.

The UN does a better job than the LoN, this I will admit. But they're still a fucking joke.

The rate at which wars and other mass political violence occurs in the world has been at a remarkably low level since WWII, lower than at any other recorded period.

[Shofercia]

Purpose: rebellions bleed. Think about - you're a smart guy. News sources need scandals.

No. You know exactly why the Russians aren't supporting the rebellion, and you're trying to punt on the issue by accusing western news of bias.

Russia has supported Assad (until now, at least) because United Russia saw it's poll numbers drop spectacularly after they didn't prevent intervention in Libya.

Oh, there were so many more reasons why UR's poll numbers dropped than just Libya. If you want, we can have a discussion about that - in another thread. But I can think of ten other things, that are more important, just off the top of my head: inadequate sports funding, (Prokhorov's jumping on this one,) too many chinovniks feeling too comfortable, (Putin purged half the party,) several bribe scandals, (some of them are enjoying quality jail time now,) admitting Gorbachev back in and giving him a medal, (Med lost 5% there, and Putin proceeded to satirize Gorbachev through Peskov, gaining approval,) the new "EG" education system, (and UR canned that very fast,) attempted Internet regulation, (Med said he'll can it,) billionaires not paying enough in tax, (Putin proposed and passed the luxury taxes, with the land exception to protect Muscovite pensioners,) lack of funding for youth programs, (KVN now has their own place, in Moscow,) etc, etc, etc. That was certainly an issue, but not the main one. Also, I was referring to news organizations, not governments.

I still think the Angolan scenario's more likely, unless one of the sides scores a major victory.

Nah, the Angolan scenario requires both sides to be either relatively equal in strength. The rebels appear to have a massive advantage in both civilian support and in outside support. Assad may have even been wounded in the attack that killed the Defense Minister.

Re-read the bolded part

[The Taryegeans]

Conclusion? They've been at war for fifty years and every time one of them fucking sneezes the other is ready to go back to war. Yep, great conclusion there.

The UN does a better job than the LoN, this I will admit. But they're still a fucking joke.

The rate at which wars and other mass political violence occurs in the world has been at a remarkably low level since WWII, lower than at any other recorded period.

That has more to do with other factors than the UN.

Think about it: if there were no nuclear weapons, would the US and the USSR gone to war? Hell yes. But they were afraid of eachother, and so countires allied with one or the other were protected, of sorts.

[Cameroi]

well i think its interesting what i've just heard on democracy now. that a suicide bomber has managed to wipe out some of the top leadership of the attrocities that have been and are continuing to be, perpetrated against the civilian population. this reaises a fascinating question in my own mind, a topic for a seperat thread certainly, but i wonder what would have happened if something like this had succeeded against hitler, and or some of his top advisors.

[Rio Cana]

Just found out that their was a bombing on a bus full of citizens from Israel in Bulgaria. Israel blames it on Iran. This incident together with the Syrian bombing means everyone in the region from Iran to Jordan are on edge. So anything can happen.

SOFIA, Bulgaria (AP) - A bomb exploded on a bus carrying Israeli youth in a Bulgarian resort Wednesday, killing at least six people and wounding 32, officials said. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called it "an Iranian terror attack" and promised a tough response.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Just found out that their was a bombing on a bus full of citizens from Israel in Bulgaria. Israel blames it on Iran. This incident together with the Syrian bombing means everyone in the region from Iran to Jordan are on edge. So anything can happen.

SOFIA, Bulgaria (AP) - A bomb exploded on a bus carrying Israeli youth in a Bulgarian resort Wednesday, killing at least six people and wounding 32, officials said. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called it "an Iranian terror attack" and promised a tough response.

I am unsure of the links given that an investigation is pending, but the situation in Syria alone will escalate and possibly spill over due to the influx of refugees into neighbouring countries. The attacks on neighbouring countries is a ruthless tactic by Assad in which he thinks that he can track every critic down and the rest of the world would not care. Well, we do, although there is a division over what action to take.

[Rio Cana]

[The attacks on neighbouring countries is a ruthless tactic by Assad in which he thinks that he can track every critic down and the rest of the world would not care. Well, we do, although there is a division over what action to take.

I do not think he has anything to gain from antagonizing his neighbors. I would think he would rather not draw attention to himself.

[The Republic of Lanos]

The attacks on neighbouring countries is a ruthless tactic by Assad in which he thinks that he can track every critic down and the rest of the world would not care. Well, we do, although there is a division over what action to take.

I do not think he has anything to gain from antagonizing his neighbors. I would think he would rather not draw attention to himself.[/quote]

He'll have a hell of a time if his army keeps it up. Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey aren't too keen on letting shit spill over. (Idk about Israel since the border between those two countries is literally a mine field.

[Distruzio]

Meh.

[Shofercia]

The attacks on neighbouring countries is a ruthless tactic by Assad in which he thinks that he can track every critic down and the rest of the world would not care. Well, we do, although there is a division over what action to take.

He'll have a hell of a time if his army keeps it up. Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey aren't too keen on letting shit spill over. (Idk about Israel since the border between those two countries is literally a mine field.

Considering that the attack was on Israeli Youth, and Israel isn't blaming Assad, I don't think it was Assad.

[The Republic of Lanos]

He'll have a hell of a time if his army keeps it up. Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey aren't too keen on letting shit spill over. (Idk about Israel since the border between those two countries is literally a mine field.

Considering that the attack was on Israeli Youth, and Israel isn't blaming Assad, I don't think it was Assad.

Wasn't referring to the Bulgaria attack. More like referring to the Lebanon shelling incident.

[Shofercia]

Considering that the attack was on Israeli Youth, and Israel isn't blaming Assad, I don't think it was Assad.

Wasn't referring to the Bulgaria attack. More like referring to the Lebanon shelling incident.

Fair, enough, thanks for clarifying

[NWOIlluminati]

He'll have a hell of a time if his army keeps it up. Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey aren't too keen on letting shit spill over. (Idk about Israel since the border between those two countries is literally a mine field.

Considering that the attack was on Israeli Youth, and Israel isn't blaming Assad, I don't think it was Assad.

Israel is laying the blame on Iran and not Syria. It is leading up to a Casus Belli for a Pre-emptive against Iran which will happen either Later in 2012 or sometime in 2013.

[The Republic of Lanos]

Wasn't referring to the Bulgaria attack. More like referring to the Lebanon shelling incident.

Fair, enough, thanks for clarifying

Now if the Syrian Army were to do something stupid in the Golan Heights, they would face Israeli fire. Maybe unite Syria and some of the rebel factions against Israel but now the Syrian Army will have to devote most of its manpower towards Israel while the rebels can pound away.

(though Israel should GTFO the area since it's not theirs...)

[Shofercia]

Considering that the attack was on Israeli Youth, and Israel isn't blaming Assad, I don't think it was Assad.

Israel is laying the blame on Iran and not Syria. It is leading up to a Casus Belli for a Pre-emptive against Iran which will happen either Later in 2012 or sometime in 2013.

An absolutely crucial contribution to the thread about Syria /sarcasm

[The UK in Exile]

The rate at which wars and other mass political violence occurs in the world has been at a remarkably low level since WWII, lower than at any other recorded period.

That has more to do with other factors than the UN.

Think about it: if there were no nuclear weapons, would the US and the USSR gone to war? Hell yes. But they were afraid of eachother, and so countires allied with one or the other were protected, of sorts.

the UN stopped them from using the nukes on each other. for that at least its earned its keep.

[The Taryegeans]

That has more to do with other factors than the UN.

Think about it: if there were no nuclear weapons, would the US and the USSR gone to war? Hell yes. But they were afraid of eachother, and so countires allied with one or the other were protected, of sorts.

the UN stopped them from using the nukes on each other. for that at least its earned its keep.

The UN didn't do shit. They stopped themselves from using nukes, becuase neither one wanted to kill billions of people.

[The UK in Exile]

the UN stopped them from using the nukes on each other. for that at least its earned its keep.

The UN didn't do shit. They stopped themselves from using nukes, becuase neither one wanted to kill billions of people.

well this shows an ignorance of history and international relations that borders on the macabre.