Britain's Democracy sliding down?

[Napkiraly]

So a recent article by the Guardian is saying democracy in the UK is declining, according to a report by a group called Democracy Audit. While the report notes improvements such as smaller parties gaining attention, publishing politicians expenses, devolving powers to the other three countries, etc. However, the negatives outweigh the positives according to the report. The growth of corporate power to ridiculous levels, lack of participation in elections, party membership falling, union membership falling, the disparity in participation in elections among the different social classes, unrepresentative politicians, etc. Because of this the report says that democracy in the UK is in decline and reforms and changes need to happen to reverse the trend.

Link to the article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jul/06/british-democracy-decline-report

Now, as a future student/immigrant/hopefully a citizen of the UK, this troubles me--a lot. However, I think this problem exists in many other Western nations, hell most nations, so I think this problem needs to be tackled in many other nations as well. I think the first step is to get politicians who, at the very least somewhat, care about the people and the fate of their nation into power. Then the influence of corporations needs to be reigned in, they are the most dangerous threat to democracy in Western nations in my eyes; once their influence is diminished perhaps we can focus on implementing the changes that allows everyone to grow--rich, middle class, and poor. Now how do we do this? I don't know, kinda weird that I'm saying this, but give democracy a few more shots before wiping out the pitchfork's and torches. A non-violent revolution may be needed, hopefully not. I guess it's a hope for the best, do what you can, try to run the greedy SOB's out situation.

So NSG: How do you think the problem should be solved? Can it be solved? Is the situation a global problem? If your British what do think about this report? Is this report a bunch of bull? Discuss.

[Angleter]

Yes, people are a lot more disillusioned with politics. I wouldn't say that it's any less democratic than in earlier times, though- and also note how the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust, the Andrew Wainwright Reform Trust, and Unlock Democracy, who backed this audit, all donated to the Yes to AV campaign in 2011.

As for how to improve British politics, I'd advocate open primaries for the main parties, a more direct democratic and autonomous local level of government, federalism on Canadian lines, and a cap on donations to political parties. Also more referendums, particularly one on the EU.

[Forsakia]

Yes, people are a lot more disillusioned with politics. I wouldn't say that it's any less democratic than in earlier times, though- and also note how the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust, the Andrew Wainwright Reform Trust, and Unlock Democracy, who backed this audit, all donated to the Yes to AV campaign in 2011.

As for how to improve British politics, I'd advocate open primaries for the main parties, a more direct democratic and autonomous local level of government, federalism on Canadian lines, and a cap on donations to political parties. Also more referendums, particularly one on the EU.

The Joseph Rowntree Reform trust donated to Yes to AV, the Joseph Rowntree Charitable trust is a separate organisation (set up by the same person for a similar but different purpose).

I'd have to check with the others (can you link where you got this list of backers from?)

[Angleter]

Yes, people are a lot more disillusioned with politics. I wouldn't say that it's any less democratic than in earlier times, though- and also note how the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust, the Andrew Wainwright Reform Trust, and Unlock Democracy, who backed this audit, all donated to the Yes to AV campaign in 2011.

As for how to improve British politics, I'd advocate open primaries for the main parties, a more direct democratic and autonomous local level of government, federalism on Canadian lines, and a cap on donations to political parties. Also more referendums, particularly one on the EU.

The Joseph Rowntree Reform trust donated to Yes to AV, the Joseph Rowntree Charitable trust is a separate organisation (set up by the same person for a similar but different purpose).

I'd have to check with the others (can you link where you got this list of backers from?)

At the bottom: http://www.democraticaudit.com/

I did realise that the JRCT was not the JRRT, but it turns out the JRRT are also backers of this organisation.

[Horsefish]

Bleugh. I'm gonna vote in the general elections but fuck the UK politcians at the moment.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Mainstream politics in Britain died when Thatcher got elected and the SDP failed a few years later. The politicians in the UK are all lying bastards, it's just a case if you want to vote for the rich boy lying bastard who hates public services and worships Thatcher (Cameron), the traitorous lying bastard who betrayed his student voters in return for power (Clegg), the seemingly directionless lying bastard who's ignored the unions after being made Labour leader by them (Miliband), the single-issue lying bastards at UKIP who indulge in tub-thumping nationalism and inexplicably hate European unity (UKIP), or the lying bastards who pretend to have Britain's best interests at heart but who are merely crypto-fascists who hate immigrants (Griffin and his BNP). The choice is not appealing.

/rant.

[The Matthew Islands]

I can see where they are coming from.

I voted in the 2010 general election for the local Tory bloke because I knew he would never win in Luton North, ever, so I did it too greatly annoy my friend. Not while Farther Christmas is still around as MP.

Hence why I ended up voting yes for AV and was a little disappointed when it didn't win.

[Napkiraly]

Yes, people are a lot more disillusioned with politics. I wouldn't say that it's any less democratic than in earlier times, though- and also note how the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust, the Andrew Wainwright Reform Trust, and Unlock Democracy, who backed this audit, all donated to the Yes to AV campaign in 2011.

As for how to improve British politics, I'd advocate open primaries for the main parties, a more direct democratic and autonomous local level of government, federalism on Canadian lines, and a cap on donations to political parties. Also more referendums, particularly one on the EU.

I agree, people are disillusioned with politics, part of it is societal and part of it is losing faith in the government, primarily by not being as representative. I'd say with a loss of voter turnout, a nation does become slightly less democratic. Lets say 63% of people vote and the Tories get in. But if 80% voted and this causes Labour to get in, the views of the people are better represented and understood. Now, obviously not everyone will vote, but the goal should bet to try and get at least 70% of people who can vote to vote. While the donors may have their own agendas and biases, I do agree with some of their points, the main ones being less representative politicians and too much corporate power.

As for your ideas on how to reform the system I agree with most, primarily federalism and a cap on donations. I think primaries should be semi-closed however.

[Napkiraly]

Bleugh. I'm gonna vote in the general elections but fuck the UK politcians at the moment.

Same, when it comes to Canadian politicians. Not all are bad, but a lot can go fuck themselves. Especially the Conservatives, but a good number from all parties.

[Forsakia]

The Joseph Rowntree Reform trust donated to Yes to AV, the Joseph Rowntree Charitable trust is a separate organisation (set up by the same person for a similar but different purpose).

I'd have to check with the others (can you link where you got this list of backers from?)

At the bottom: http://www.democraticaudit.com/

I did realise that the JRCT was not the JRRT, but it turns out the JRRT are also backers of this organisation.

Ah, my apologies.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Democracy is faltering because the voters and politicians are kind of keeping a distance from each other - as such the politicians can only guess what's really going on and that's why they are making the wrong decisions. To bring them back together, the EU referendum would be a good start, but never ever let the BNP in because democracy does not include racism.

By the way, Schulze would have won the hearts and minds better than AV.

[Angleter]

By the way, Schulze would have won the hearts and minds better than AV.

I've just looked it up and it seems to be the most complicated electoral system I have ever seen. People disliked AV because it was being championed by exactly the metropolitan elite political class that they were sick of, embodied by Nick Clegg, whose support for AV was quite clearly motivated by self-interest, and its campaign reflected this (Eddie Izzard, for example). Essentially, it was the political class' solution for solving politics (likewise Lords reform). A hopelessly Byzantine political class' solution for solving politics would've gone down even worse.

[Vellosia]

As cheesy as it may sound, I think a big problem is that there are so few truly inspirational politicians anymore. Thatcher was probably the last one who came even close, and before her probably Churchill as the last true one during his wartime tenure.

Modern politicians are all guttersnipes who don't know what the truth is; they and bicker, mudsling and lie about things that are, ultimately, of little importance, whilst refusing the people a choice on the issues they really consider important.

[Horsefish]

As cheesy as it may sound, I think a big problem is that there are so few truly inspirational politicians anymore. Thatcher was probably the last one who came even close, and before her probably Churchill as the last true one during his wartime tenure.

Modern politicians are all guttersnipes who don't know what the truth is; they and bicker, mudsling and lie about things that are, ultimately, of little importance, whilst refusing the people a choice on the issues they really consider important.

Especially Cameron. He's just a cunt.

[Vellosia]

As cheesy as it may sound, I think a big problem is that there are so few truly inspirational politicians anymore. Thatcher was probably the last one who came even close, and before her probably Churchill as the last true one during his wartime tenure.

Modern politicians are all guttersnipes who don't know what the truth is; they and bicker, mudsling and lie about things that are, ultimately, of little importance, whilst refusing the people a choice on the issues they really consider important.

Especially Cameron. He's just a cunt.

I'm well within the Tory camp and I agree with you all the way on that. But Ed Miliband is no better.

[Forsakia]

By the way, Schulze would have won the hearts and minds better than AV.

I've just looked it up and it seems to be the most complicated electoral system I have ever seen. People disliked AV because it was being championed by exactly the metropolitan elite political class that they were sick of, embodied by Nick Clegg, whose support for AV was quite clearly motivated by self-interest, and its campaign reflected this (Eddie Izzard, for example). Essentially, it was the political class' solution for solving politics (likewise Lords reform). A hopelessly Byzantine political class' solution for solving politics would've gone down even worse.

The Lib Dems have been after reform of the voting system (i.e. changing it from FPTP) for about the last hundred years whether as one of the 'big' parties, down to a tiny third party and back up to it's sort of in between status it currently has. It can't always have been about self-interest.

Intoducing democracy into the House of Lords has wide public support.

[Vellosia]

I've just looked it up and it seems to be the most complicated electoral system I have ever seen. People disliked AV because it was being championed by exactly the metropolitan elite political class that they were sick of, embodied by Nick Clegg, whose support for AV was quite clearly motivated by self-interest, and its campaign reflected this (Eddie Izzard, for example). Essentially, it was the political class' solution for solving politics (likewise Lords reform). A hopelessly Byzantine political class' solution for solving politics would've gone down even worse.

The Lib Dems have been after reform of the voting system (i.e. changing it from FPTP) for about the last hundred years whether as one of the 'big' parties, down to a tiny third party and back up to it's sort of in between status it currently has. It can't always have been about self-interest.

Intoducing democracy into the House of Lords has wide public support.

Then why do so few people care?

I am firmly against an elected House of Lords, as I feel it defeats the whole point of the House in the first place.

[Horsefish]

Then why do so few people care?

We live in Britain? Apathy is the default setting.

[Vellosia]

Then why do so few people care?

We live in Britain? Apathy is the default setting.

So really the claim 'it has wide support' is pretty invalid.

Heh, maybe when the Eurozone goes under and our economy utterly implodes with it someone more interesting will turn up.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

The Lib Dems have been after reform of the voting system (i.e. changing it from FPTP) for about the last hundred years whether as one of the 'big' parties, down to a tiny third party and back up to it's sort of in between status it currently has. It can't always have been about self-interest.

Intoducing democracy into the House of Lords has wide public support.

Then why do so few people care?

I am firmly against an elected House of Lords, as I feel it defeats the whole point of the House in the first place.

Here comes the new boss same as the old boss

[Forsakia]

As cheesy as it may sound, I think a big problem is that there are so few truly inspirational politicians anymore. Thatcher was probably the last one who came even close, and before her probably Churchill as the last true one during his wartime tenure.

Modern politicians are all guttersnipes who don't know what the truth is; they and bicker, mudsling and lie about things that are, ultimately, of little importance, whilst refusing the people a choice on the issues they really consider important.

How do you measure inspiring? Blair rated as highly personally popular in his prime.

None of the things you list are new to the world of politics.

[Vellosia]

As cheesy as it may sound, I think a big problem is that there are so few truly inspirational politicians anymore. Thatcher was probably the last one who came even close, and before her probably Churchill as the last true one during his wartime tenure.

Modern politicians are all guttersnipes who don't know what the truth is; they and bicker, mudsling and lie about things that are, ultimately, of little importance, whilst refusing the people a choice on the issues they really consider important.

How do you measure inspiring? Blair rated as highly personally popular in his prime.

None of the things you list are new to the world of politics.

They certainly aren't; but at least you had people who could galvanise the nation in the last century. An at least you didn't have three versions of the same thing with a different costume on each time.

Blair was in the early years. But it all fell apart for him; he couldn't maintain it in a way that many of the other 'greats' were able to.

[Forsakia]

We live in Britain? Apathy is the default setting.

So really the claim 'it has wide support' is pretty invalid.

Enjoy

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cu ... 230412.pdf

http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/d ... 270612.pdf

[Forsakia]

How do you measure inspiring? Blair rated as highly personally popular in his prime.

None of the things you list are new to the world of politics.

They certainly aren't; but at least you had people who could galvanise the nation in the last century. An at least you didn't have three versions of the same thing with a different costume on each time.

Blair was in the early years. But it all fell apart for him; he couldn't maintain it in a way that many of the other 'greats' were able to.

Off the top of my head his popularity ratings match up well with Thatcher.

You might want to look up Butskellism.

[Vellosia]

So really the claim 'it has wide support' is pretty invalid.

Enjoy

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cu ... 230412.pdf

http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/d ... 270612.pdf

From what I can see, there's significant division between the two camps, and the second poll in the first link has a rather interesting result.

Furthermore, a survey of a couple of thousand people doesn't really tell you much in an electorate of 45 million - it's very easy to put a lot more faith in a survey than is statistically responsible. Which is why I think it should go to a referendum.