How does the GOP maintain the level of support they do?

[Vecherd]

Probably because the other big alternative aint very nice either.

[Silent Majority]

This is not a counter argument, you do realise this. Access to clean water=/= PS3.

Please explain why.

Which, is... the government which you happen to be so opposed to. You like small government but, you still think the government should protect certain rights. The two are rather incompatable as a small government wouldn't be able to ENFORCE such things as free speech.

I do not oppose the government. I support a small government, which takes care of a few basic things like protects basic fundamental freedoms. In a country as big as the US, even this government would be fairly big, but it'd still be much smaller than it is today.

Aside from the absurdity of this argument, equating healthcare to a ferrari. I ask, how does healthcare infringe on SOMEONE elses rights?

Whose money are you using to fund that healthcare? The people's money. As some people do not wish to give their money to such cause, the best solution is to make the government as small as possible so it has to spend as little money as possible.

Here's the thing, we're already paying for peoples healthcare. And unless you are seriously going to argue against going back centuries in terms of medical ethics, we always will.

If you want to view this as an issue of financial efficiency as opposed to an issue of human suffering that is your choice, but even in those terms I can tell you that the government paying for preventive care for everyone who needs it will be a lot cheaper than waiting to treat people when they have serious life threatening conditions and end up in the emergency room.

[Norstal]

No. You agreed to pay taxes. That money is yours no longer. It has been snuffed away, fizzled, gone, you are bereft of your money, tis no longer under your jurisdiction anymore.

That doesn't mean however, you can elect candidates to represent you to influence how the government works, vote on a proposition, etc.

I did not agree to pay taxes. And don't give me any ''social contract'' bullshit, I have not agreed to pay taxes in any form, yet I am forced to do so.

Oh please, you are not forced to. If you really don't want to pay your taxes, you could always evade it.

[Salandriagado]

No. You agreed to pay taxes. That money is yours no longer. It has been snuffed away, fizzled, gone, you are bereft of your money, tis no longer under your jurisdiction anymore.

That doesn't mean however, you can elect candidates to represent you to influence how the government works, vote on a proposition, etc.

I did not agree to pay taxes. And don't give me any ''social contract'' bullshit, I have not agreed to pay taxes in any form, yet I am forced to do so.

Not at all. You are forced to pay taxes if you wish to continue to reap the benefits of those taxes. You can, if you prefer, leave the property of the organisation that is charging you those taxes (to say, Somalia) and pay no taxes at all.

[Hippostania]

What are you an anarchist? This stupid anarcho-capitalist argument has been debunked many times.

No, it hasn't been. It's you who's going to have to debunk why the state is somehow more magical than Walmart or some other big corporation.

But yeah, it's difficult to argue why it something is consentual if I have not given my consent.

[Virabia]

Hippostania. For the PS3 bit, the burden of proof is on you. Also, what is this about taxes violating property rights and not being a consensual transaction.

You can CHOOSE to not pay taxes. There are consequences for it, but there consequences for everything you do. Thus there is consent and your argumeny begins to fall apart.

Also, considering a country with limited economic rescources like Cuba is able to provide healthcare for it's citizens, I reckon the US can do the same and not have this EBUL government. It's more a matter of doing it efficiently.

[Norstal]

What are you an anarchist? This stupid anarcho-capitalist argument has been debunked many times.

No, it hasn't been. It's you who's going to have to debunk why the state is somehow more magical than Walmart or some other big corporation.

Evade taxes. Do it. The State is not a magical impenetrable fortress of doom. If you don't want to participate in the system, then evade taxes.

But yeah, it's difficult to argue why it something is consentual if I have not given my consent.

Lol, you always give consent for everything?

[North Calaveras]

Hippostania. For the PS3 bit, the burden of proof is on you. Also, what is this about taxes violating property rights and not being a consensual transaction.

You can CHOOSE to not pay taxes. There are consequences for it, but there consequences for everything you do. Thus there is consent and your argumeny begins to fall apart.

Also, considering a country with limited economic rescources like Cuba is able to provide healthcare for it's citizens, I reckon the US can do the same and not have this EBUL government. It's more a matter of doing it efficiently.

the US is much larger than Cuba, not only that but the healthcare system would be strained by all the immigrants coming in every year.

[Virabia]

What are you an anarchist? This stupid anarcho-capitalist argument has been debunked many times.

No, it hasn't been. It's you who's going to have to debunk why the state is somehow more magical than Walmart or some other big corporation.

But yeah, it's difficult to argue why it something is consentual if I have not given my consent.

Hippostania. Wanna take a trip to Somalia? It's a paradise. No government! Just the steady hand of the good old free market. You'll love it. I'll even set you up with a flat and EVERYTHING!

[TaQud]

Sections 7 and 31 of the Constitution of the Republic of Finland.

finland speaks English?

[Hippostania]

Hippostania. For the PS3 bit, the burden of proof is on you. Also, what is this about taxes violating property rights and not being a consensual transaction.

You can CHOOSE to not pay taxes. There are consequences for it, but there consequences for everything you do. Thus there is consent and your argumeny begins to fall apart.

Yes, a police officer comes and takes you to jail. This is no different from a robberer who steals your property and murders you afterwards. For some reason though, people advocate that for some reason, the state somehow has a right to imprison people, but Microsoft or Starbucks don't.

Also, considering a country with limited economic rescources like Cuba is able to provide healthcare for it's citizens, I reckon the US can do the same and not have this EBUL government. It's more a matter of doing it efficiently.

Or how about we just strip the government to the bare minimum and let people get their own healthcare without government sticking its nose somewhere where it doesn't belong?

[Hippostania]

Hippostania. Wanna take a trip to Somalia? It's a paradise. No government! Just the steady hand of the good old free market. You'll love it. I'll even set you up with a flat and EVERYTHING!

Somalia is not an anarchy. It's a group of semi-feudal warlord states in a constant state of war. This is why a small government is needed to maintain and protect people's freedoms.

[Flaxxony-Setram]

Because the alternative sucks too do they pick one issue and go of that.

Also it looks as if it is becoming more sane over time.

[New England and The Maritimes]

I did not agree to pay taxes. And don't give me any ''social contract'' bullshit, I have not agreed to pay taxes in any form, yet I am forced to do so.

Oh please, you are not forced to. If you really don't want to pay your taxes, you could always evade it.

Feel free to not use our roads to drive to work, to not pay into the social security program we worked together to create and maintain, to not draw the power we created in the plants across the country, to not benefit from the fact that there are police 5 minutes from your house, to not be educated in our schools, to not be covered by our anti-missile defense networks, to not benefit from the social safety net when you're on the verge of homelessness and starvation, to not take our purified municipal drinking water, to not live in our protected lands, and to not be safe from the violent criminals we send to our prisons using the courts we've also paid for to determine their guilt.

If you can figure out how to make this work, go ahead and "opt out."

[The UK in Exile]

Hippostania. For the PS3 bit, the burden of proof is on you. Also, what is this about taxes violating property rights and not being a consensual transaction.

You can CHOOSE to not pay taxes. There are consequences for it, but there consequences for everything you do. Thus there is consent and your argumeny begins to fall apart.

Yes, a police officer comes and takes you to jail. This is no different from a robberer who steals your property and murders you afterwards. For some reason though, people advocate that for some reason, the state somehow has a right to imprison people, but Microsoft or Starbucks don't.

Also, considering a country with limited economic rescources like Cuba is able to provide healthcare for it's citizens, I reckon the US can do the same and not have this EBUL government. It's more a matter of doing it efficiently.

Or how about we just strip the government to the bare minimum and let people get their own healthcare without government sticking its nose somewhere where it doesn't belong?

not at all, if you don't have any income, and you don't buy anything, then you don't need to pay any tax.

let us know how it goes.

[Frisivisia]

Hippostania. For the PS3 bit, the burden of proof is on you. Also, what is this about taxes violating property rights and not being a consensual transaction.

You can CHOOSE to not pay taxes. There are consequences for it, but there consequences for everything you do. Thus there is consent and your argumeny begins to fall apart.

Yes, a police officer comes and takes you to jail. This is no different from a robberer who steals your property and murders you afterwards. For some reason though, people advocate that for some reason, the state somehow has a right to imprison people, but Microsoft or Starbucks don't.

Also, considering a country with limited economic rescources like Cuba is able to provide healthcare for it's citizens, I reckon the US can do the same and not have this EBUL government. It's more a matter of doing it efficiently.

Or how about we just strip the government to the bare minimum and let people get their own healthcare without government sticking its nose somewhere where it doesn't belong?

Because insurance companies are already jacking up prices to the nth degree. No one "buys" private insurance, it is mostly sold to businesses who give that to their workers, leaving the poor and middle class without healthcare. This idea that people COULD buy their own insurance is completely false.

[Frisivisia]

Because the alternative sucks too do they pick one issue and go of that.

Also it looks as if it is becoming more sane over time.

I lol'd. The GOP gets more extremist and INsane over time. You made my day though.

[Virabia]

Exactly! The government's primary concern should be the well being of the people! Thus I propose we get health care and get rid of the military, intlligence agencies, boarder patrol and all that good stuff, as that's where the government doesn't belong.


Honestly, to make that argument, you have to explain WHY the government doesn't belong there because I certainly can explain why. (Has to do with the government protecting the right to healthcare (which is widely considered a BASIC human right)).

[Hippostania]

Because insurance companies are already jacking up prices to the nth degree. No one "buys" private insurance, it is mostly sold to businesses who give that to their workers, leaving the poor and middle class without healthcare. This idea that people COULD buy their own insurance is completely false.

Supply and demand, my friend. The government cuts down all useless programs it shouldn't have in the first place and millions of people start searching for personal health insurance. Companies notice the excess demand and establish personal health insurance deals. Erryone's happy.

[TaQud]

Hippostania. Wanna take a trip to Somalia? It's a paradise. No government! Just the steady hand of the good old free market. You'll love it. I'll even set you up with a flat and EVERYTHING!

Somalia is not an anarchy. It's a group of semi-feudal warlord states in a constant state of war. This is why a small government is needed to maintain and protect people's freedoms.

(And I don't think there's ponies in Somalia )

[Norstal]

Hippostania. For the PS3 bit, the burden of proof is on you. Also, what is this about taxes violating property rights and not being a consensual transaction.

You can CHOOSE to not pay taxes. There are consequences for it, but there consequences for everything you do. Thus there is consent and your argumeny begins to fall apart.

Yes, a police officer comes and takes you to jail.

No they can't actually. You can get charged, but you won't instantly be convicted and you will get rewarded if it's wrongful imprisonment.

This is no different from a robberer who steals your property and murders you afterwards.

Very different. See above.

For some reason though, people advocate that for some reason, the state somehow has a right to imprison people, but Microsoft or Starbucks don't.

If they don't have the right, then challenge them. I can challenge Microsoft or Starbucks if they send people after me to the courts.

[North Calaveras]

Because insurance companies are already jacking up prices to the nth degree. No one "buys" private insurance, it is mostly sold to businesses who give that to their workers, leaving the poor and middle class without healthcare. This idea that people COULD buy their own insurance is completely false.

Supply and demand, my friend. The government cuts down all useless programs it shouldn't have in the first place and millions of people start searching for personal health insurance. Companies notice the excess demand and establish personal health insurance deals. Erryone's happy.

This ^

[Christian Democrats]

People like lower taxes, and they want the government to spend money responsibly.

Most Americans agree with the social views of the Republican Party.

Many people do not want to live in a nanny state.

Etc.

[Flaxxony-Setram]

No, it hasn't been. It's you who's going to have to debunk why the state is somehow more magical than Walmart or some other big corporation.

But yeah, it's difficult to argue why it something is consentual if I have not given my consent.

Hippostania. Wanna take a trip to Somalia? It's a paradise. No government! Just the steady hand of the good old free market. You'll love it. I'll even set you up with a flat and EVERYTHING!

Dumb@sses like you have the AUDACITY to get pissed at people for misrepresenting whatever the hell you believe in? Strawman central station!!! I don't know how warring gang factions (which are really warring authoritarian states) are a market concept.

[Virabia]

Hippostania. Wanna take a trip to Somalia? It's a paradise. No government! Just the steady hand of the good old free market. You'll love it. I'll even set you up with a flat and EVERYTHING!

Somalia is not an anarchy. It's a group of semi-feudal warlord states in a constant state of war. This is why a small government is needed to maintain and protect people's freedoms.

Yeah. Guess what happens in an anarchy? Power vacuum. And that's what you see there. Somalia is what happens when you have anarchy. Now I too am an anarchist (anarcho-ecocommunism) but I know that it doesn't work. You need an entity to look out for the people, to provide things for the people. Things like healthcare.