How does the GOP maintain the level of support they do?

[AustriaHungaryBohemia]

Healthcare is not a right, as it would require the violation of someone else's rights. As healthcare cannot just appear out of thin air, someone has to pay for it. Just like I explained, you're not entitled to a new Ferrari. Why is healthcare any different?

How many people have died or suffered horrible pain because they do not own a Ferrari?

[Arkinesia]

It's very simple: The Democrats usually do such a piss poor job...at anything, they become the alternative. People want change and if the party that says they favor it can't or won't produce it, they'll go elsewhere.

The Democrats couldn't even pass Democrat healthcare reform* with Democrat majorities in Congress.

*according to Obama, ‘Obamacare’ is the Republican ‘effort’ at healthcare reform. See 2008 campaign.

[Silent Majority]

Healthcare is not a right, as it would require the violation of someone else's rights. As healthcare cannot just appear out of thin air, someone has to pay for it. Just like I explained, you're not entitled to a new Ferrari. Why is healthcare any different?

Not having a Ferrari doesn't kill you. Not having healthcare most certainly can.

[Norstal]

"Turn on Israel"? Please. If any of the actions the US ever took towards Israel can count as "turning on" them, then I have seen more vicious betrayals from hippie pandas. And anything that would actually count as "turning on Israel" would be political suicide.
What exactly are "deadbeats" and "American ideals", in your opinion?

Well, like giving money to people for nearly a year, and still can't find jobs... the extremely high pensions(Why does Greece have debt again?), and losing American ideals like self supporting natures, yet the government now wants to be in everyone's lives. as said by Thomas Jefferson,

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

Lol self-supporting.

Like how the pilgrims helped themselves by being helped by the Indians?

[Gauthier]

Well, like giving money to people for nearly a year, and still can't find jobs... the extremely high pensions(Why does Greece have debt again?), and losing American ideals like self supporting natures, yet the government now wants to be in everyone's lives. as said by Thomas Jefferson,

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

Lol self-supporting.

Like how the pilgrims helped themselves by being helped by the Indians?

After Thanksgiving they gave the Indians smallpox and took over their lands!

[The lepearchauns]

And then I have this to add to my argument against the GOP. Politifact is a website based off the Tampa Bay times newspaper. They fact check the statements made by most politicians and pundits in major speeches and broadcasts. False as used below includes statements that were lies, used skewed facts, used incorrect figures or manipulated data. Here are their numbers on major players in both parties

Republican candidates
Ron Paul 39% statements were false. 8% were outright lies
Rick Perry 48% statements were false. 10% were outright lies
Newt Gingrich 58% statements were false. 16% were outright lies
Herman Cain 69% statements were false. 13% were outright lies
Michelle Bachman 72% statements were false. 23% were outright lies

Mitt Romney 56% statements were false. 9% were outright lies

Now for Democratic leadership
Hilary Clinton 28% statements were false. 2% were lies
Joe Biden 33% statements were false. 5% were outright lies
Bill Clinton 35% statements were false. 14% were outright lies
Nancy Pelosi 38% statements were false. 11% were outright lies

Finally Barack Obama. 28% statements were false. only 1% were outright lies. Over half of the lies were from the 2008 campaign relating to McCain. This rate also reflects nearly triple the number of statements than any other person

So, the top 3 most truthful among both parties were democrat leadership. However, the 2 republican favorites Romney and Paul were the most truthful among their peers. However, Bachman followers, almost a quarter of what you know is a lie. Sorry.

[Hippostania]

How many people have died or suffered horrible pain because they do not own a Ferrari?

Not having a Ferrari doesn't kill you. Not having healthcare most certainly can.

How is this relevant? Lack of healthcare can kill you, lack of Ferrari can make you very sad and depressed. Neither entitles you to violate the property rights of your fellow people. They might actually help you to get that healthcare you need.

[Trotskylvania]

Well, like giving money to people for nearly a year, and still can't find jobs... the extremely high pensions(Why does Greece have debt again?), and losing American ideals like self supporting natures, yet the government now wants to be in everyone's lives. as said by Thomas Jefferson,

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

Lol self-supporting.

Like how the pilgrims helped themselves by being helped by the Indians?

Rugged individualism is a 20th century fabrication. Throughout most of American history, mutual aid was the default practice by pioneers and homesteaders. Subsistence farmers and backwoods frontiersmen were very collectivist by nature, and this translated into into state level Good Samaritan laws and the Poor Laws. Social mores, as well as law, compelled people to help one another. When that wasn't enough, states and local governments offered makework programs and some level of assistance, as did party machines in the urban areas.

[Virabia]

No, just like you don't have a right to a PS3 or a television.

This is not a counter argument, you do realise this. Access to clean water=/= PS3.

Sections 7 and 31 of the Constitution of the Republic of Finland.

Which, is... the government which you happen to be so opposed to. You like small government but, you still think the government should protect certain rights. The two are rather incompatable as a small government wouldn't be able to ENFORCE such things as free speech.

Healthcare is not a right, as it would require the violation of someone else's rights. As healthcare cannot just appear out of thin air, someone has to pay for it. Just like I explained, you're not entitled to a new Ferrari. Why is healthcare any different?

Aside from the absurdity of this argument, equating healthcare to a ferrari. I ask, how does healthcare infringe on SOMEONE elses rights?

[New England and The Maritimes]

Lol self-supporting.

Like how the pilgrims helped themselves by being helped by the Indians?

Rugged individualism is a 20th century fabrication. Throughout most of American history, mutual aid was the default practice by pioneers and homesteaders. Subsistence farmers and backwoods frontiersmen were very collectivist by nature, and this translated into into state level Good Samaritan laws and the Poor Laws. Social mores, as well as law, compelled people to help one another. When that wasn't enough, states and local governments offered makework programs and some level of assistance, as did party machines in the urban areas.

I always lol when my grandfather talks about how everyone supported themselves when he was a kid, then goes on to reminisce about the days when people would just come over and eat dinner with you.

[Norstal]

Lol self-supporting.

Like how the pilgrims helped themselves by being helped by the Indians?

Rugged individualism is a 20th century fabrication. Throughout most of American history, mutual aid was the default practice by pioneers and homesteaders. Subsistence farmers and backwoods frontiersmen were very collectivist by nature, and this translated into into state level Good Samaritan laws and the Poor Laws. Social mores, as well as law, compelled people to help one another. When that wasn't enough, states and local governments offered makework programs and some level of assistance, as did party machines in the urban areas.

That's what I thought too. I'd like to see these people survive alone in the frontiers without going crazy. Only rely on their "rugged individualism."

Well, then again, they might already be crazy.

[Silent Majority]

How many people have died or suffered horrible pain because they do not own a Ferrari?

Not having a Ferrari doesn't kill you. Not having healthcare most certainly can.

How is this relevant? Lack of healthcare can kill you, lack of Ferrari can make you very sad and depressed. Neither entitles you to violate the property rights of your fellow people. They might actually help you to get that healthcare you need.

How does universal healthcare violate the property rights of others?

[The UK in Exile]

[url][/url]

You mean democratic tactics like voter fraud, and voter intimidation?

No defence of the Republicans, no opposition to the claim they use underhanded tactics, just another "The Democrats are bad, too!" attack.

this from the poster that dismissed watergate.

who are you america, who do not know their history?

[New England and The Maritimes]

Rugged individualism is a 20th century fabrication. Throughout most of American history, mutual aid was the default practice by pioneers and homesteaders. Subsistence farmers and backwoods frontiersmen were very collectivist by nature, and this translated into into state level Good Samaritan laws and the Poor Laws. Social mores, as well as law, compelled people to help one another. When that wasn't enough, states and local governments offered makework programs and some level of assistance, as did party machines in the urban areas.

That's what I thought too. I'd like to see these people survive alone in the frontiers without going crazy. Only rely on their "rugged individualism."

Well, then again, they might already be crazy.

There was that and th fact that most of the indian wars were started by these "rugged individualists" begging Washington to send the army to do their genocide for them.

[Norstal]

How many people have died or suffered horrible pain because they do not own a Ferrari?

Not having a Ferrari doesn't kill you. Not having healthcare most certainly can.

How is this relevant? Lack of healthcare can kill you, lack of Ferrari can make you very sad and depressed. Neither entitles you to violate the property rights of your fellow people. They might actually help you to get that healthcare you need.

Just because someone has to pay for it doesn't mean it violates property rights.

Oh noes someone bought something from my yard sales. Clearly the man has violated mah property rights. *Cocks shotgun*

[Hippostania]

This is not a counter argument, you do realise this. Access to clean water=/= PS3.

Please explain why.

Which, is... the government which you happen to be so opposed to. You like small government but, you still think the government should protect certain rights. The two are rather incompatable as a small government wouldn't be able to ENFORCE such things as free speech.

I do not oppose the government. I support a small government, which takes care of a few basic things like protects basic fundamental freedoms. In a country as big as the US, even this government would be fairly big, but it'd still be much smaller than it is today.

Aside from the absurdity of this argument, equating healthcare to a ferrari. I ask, how does healthcare infringe on SOMEONE elses rights?

Whose money are you using to fund that healthcare? The people's money. As some people do not wish to give their money to such cause, the best solution is to make the government as small as possible so it has to spend as little money as possible.

[Hippostania]

Just because someone has to pay for it doesn't mean it violates property rights.

If it's not consentual, it does violate property rights.

Oh noes someone bought something from my yard sales. Clearly the man has violated mah property rights. *Cocks shotgun*

This deal was consentual. Taxation for healthcare is not.

[Virabia]

How is this relevant? Lack of healthcare can kill you, lack of Ferrari can make you very sad and depressed. Neither entitles you to violate the property rights of your fellow people. They might actually help you to get that healthcare you need.

Just because someone has to pay for it doesn't mean it violates property rights.

Oh noes someone bought something from my yard sales. Clearly the man has violated mah property rights. *Cocks shotgun*

Welcome to the world of Hippostania...

[Norstal]

Whose money are you using to fund that healthcare? The people's money. As some people do not wish to give their money to such cause, the best solution is to make the government as small as possible so it has to spend as little money as possible.

When you pay taxes, it's not your money anymore. You do not have rights over that money anymore. You gave it away. You paid for your taxes, just as I have paid for my coca-cola, it doesn't mean that I can direct how the Coca-Cola Company use my money.

[New England and The Maritimes]

Whose money are you using to fund that healthcare? The people's money. As some people do not wish to give their money to such cause, the best solution is to make the government as small as possible so it has to spend as little money as possible.

When you pay taxes, it's not your money anymore. You do not have rights over that money anymore. You gave it away. You paid for your taxes, just as I have paid for my coca-cola, it doesn't mean that I can direct how the Coca-Cola Company use my money.

Unless you're a business owner who has paid for labor and then bawls at congress to make sure your employees aren't allowed to purchase the health insurance their contracts specify.

[Greed and Death]

Healthcare is not a right, as it would require the violation of someone else's rights. As healthcare cannot just appear out of thin air, someone has to pay for it. Just like I explained, you're not entitled to a new Ferrari. Why is healthcare any different?

Not having a Ferrari doesn't kill you. Not having healthcare most certainly can.

Ok, but that does not make it a right. This healthcare is a right is really great sound bite, but makes no sense as no country has actually instituted with the understanding of a fundamental right.

Really what your clamoring for ( and what I clamor for), is a single payer system. Single payer however does not make healthcare a right, it simply allows resource allocation to be determined by the legislature rather than patient wealth.

If healthcare were a right congress would not be able to divert resources from boner helpers for the old, to school funding. Because they would be impinging on a right, and any old man who lost funding for his boner helper could sue to block the funding diversion arguing the govnerment did not meet strict scrutiny.

[Hippostania]

When you pay taxes, it's not your money anymore. You do not have rights over that money anymore. You gave it away. You paid for your taxes, just as I have paid for my coca-cola, it doesn't mean that I can direct how the Coca-Cola Company use my money.

So if I come and steal your money while threatening you with a shotgun, it's mine because you gave it to me? Alrighty then!

[Norstal]

Just because someone has to pay for it doesn't mean it violates property rights.

If it's not consentual, it does violate property rights.

Yes.

This deal was consentual. Taxation for healthcare is not.

No. You agreed to pay taxes. That money is yours no longer. It has been snuffed away, fizzled, gone, you are bereft of your money, tis no longer under your jurisdiction anymore.

That doesn't mean however, you can elect candidates to represent you to influence how the government works, vote on a proposition, etc.

[Hippostania]

No. You agreed to pay taxes. That money is yours no longer. It has been snuffed away, fizzled, gone, you are bereft of your money, tis no longer under your jurisdiction anymore.

That doesn't mean however, you can elect candidates to represent you to influence how the government works, vote on a proposition, etc.

I did not agree to pay taxes. And don't give me any ''social contract'' bullshit, I have not agreed to pay taxes in any form, yet I am forced to do so.

[Norstal]

When you pay taxes, it's not your money anymore. You do not have rights over that money anymore. You gave it away. You paid for your taxes, just as I have paid for my coca-cola, it doesn't mean that I can direct how the Coca-Cola Company use my money.

So if I come and steal your money while threatening you with a shotgun, it's mine because you gave it to me? Alrighty then!

What are you an anarchist? This stupid anarcho-capitalist argument has been debunked many times.

But if you can't come up with a better argument, well, I have America's finest protecting and I'd like to see you try.