German Court rules circumcision as assault

[Milks Empire]

So if I start the church of the Magical Tree on Neptune and I say that it is part of our religion to surgically remove the little toe on each of a child's foot at birth, can someone explain to me why I don't deserve the same legal protection as Jews and Muslims?

Or, as is written in an in-game issue, a kidney. If you allow one, where does it stop?

[The Republic of Lanos]

Feel bad for the next generation of babies. I'm not even jewish, but they knew what they were doing for sure. Glad I was circumcised.

Benefits of circumcision obviously are outweighed by a reactionist (and sometimes anti-Semitic) movement. It doesn't help said reactionist movement when they publish shit like this.

[Page]

Show that it's harmful first.

Its an infringement upon the child's rights.

Can I ask you, out of curiosity, if you also oppose forced genital reconstruction on intersex babies with ambiguous genitalia which do not threaten their health? I just wanted to know if you were consistent.

[Wamitoria]

So if I start the church of the Magical Tree on Neptune and I say that it is part of our religion to surgically remove the little toe on each of a child's foot at birth, can someone explain to me why I don't deserve the same legal protection as Jews and Muslims?

Because removing the foreskin in no way impedes a person's ability to function.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

Contentious ruling. I think that the legal decision was correct. It did not legislate away the right for someone to choose to be circumcised (for religious reasons or otherwise); it just removed the power for someone to choose for them.

You do realize that Jews have to circumcise their children at a specific time otherwise they violate central religious tenants, right?

So I've heard, and that's where the contention lies. But the court ruled that the decision to have one's body irreperably changed is the sole right of the inidivudal, and I can see the logic behind that.

I still agree with the ruling.

[Southern Patriots]

HOW exactly is this antisemitism?

Because it greatly discriminates against Jewish culture. The German courts can go fuck themselves as far as I am concerned.

I am certain that is why they did it. Because Jewish culture. Forget that there are far more Muslims who do it, and also reside in Germany.
Their courts probably would be just as happy with you going and fucking yourself if you're frustrated at this, as long as you don't cut any baby boy's penises while you're at it.

I think this is a good ruling. If religious nutjobs want to cry, fine.

[Person012345]

This may be the best thing Ive heard all day. Yes, it can be argued its a bit anti semetic but this is the 21st century so perhaps we should begin moving away from barbaric self mutilation.

Something being "a bit antisemitic" is like saying a woman is "a bit pregnant." Granted that the practice is barbaric, it is also fundamental to the religious pratices of millions of people. Legislating away religion, even from the judicial bench, does not strike me as a good idea. Education were better.

They're not legislating religion.

They're legislating against mutilation. I can't claim that raping people is part of my religious beliefs then go around raping and get away scot-free.

[Milks Empire]

Feel bad for the next generation of babies. I'm not even jewish, but they knew what they were doing for sure. Glad I was circumcised.

Benefits of circumcision obviously are outweighed by a reactionist (and sometimes anti-Semitic) movement. It doesn't help said reactionist movement when they publish shit like this.

Prove that there are benefits that outweigh the right of each and every person to keep all of the body that exists at birth.

Its an infringement upon the child's rights.

Can I ask you, out of curiosity, if you also oppose forced genital reconstruction on intersex babies with ambiguous genitalia which do not threaten their health? I just wanted to know if you were consistent.

I won't speak for Genivaria, but I do oppose that as well.

[Page]

So if I start the church of the Magical Tree on Neptune and I say that it is part of our religion to surgically remove the little toe on each of a child's foot at birth, can someone explain to me why I don't deserve the same legal protection as Jews and Muslims?

Because removing the foreskin in no way impedes a person's ability to function.

Neither does removing a clitoris.

[Milks Empire]

So if I start the church of the Magical Tree on Neptune and I say that it is part of our religion to surgically remove the little toe on each of a child's foot at birth, can someone explain to me why I don't deserve the same legal protection as Jews and Muslims?

Because removing the foreskin in no way impedes a person's ability to function.

Prove it.

[SD_Film Artists]

Feel bad for the next generation of babies. I'm not even jewish, but they knew what they were doing for sure. Glad I was circumcised.

Benefits of circumcision obviously are outweighed by a reactionist (and sometimes anti-Semitic) movement. It doesn't help said reactionist movement when they publish shit like this.

Considering how non-Jewish circumcision is normally committed by Americans living by puritan traditions, I thought that if anything it's circumcision which is reactionary.

[Samuraikoku]

You may think it's reasonable, 'Koku-san, but I believe Jewish parents have a command from Yahweh himself to have the circumcision performed within eight days (Leviticus 12:3). The court should know that, and knowing that, their statement about waiting is an amazing bit of disingenuous dissembling. If they don't know that, they are collectively an ass.

The problem is that the physical integrity of a human being is, I believe, higher in the value scale than religion. So it leaves little margin to solve the problem.

[Seshephe]

German court rules religious circumcision on boys an assault

Circumcising young boys on religious grounds amounts to grievous bodily harm, a German court ruled Tuesday in a landmark decision that the Jewish community said trampled on parents' religious rights.

The regional court in Cologne, western Germany, ruled that the "fundamental right of the child to bodily integrity outweighed the fundamental rights of the parents", a judgement that is expected to set a legal precedent.
"The religious freedom of the parents and their right to educate their child would not be unacceptably compromised, if they were obliged to wait until the child could himself decide to be circumcised," the court added.

The case was brought against a doctor in Cologne who had circumcised a four-year-old Muslim boy on his parents' wishes.
A few days after the operation, his parents took him to hospital as he was bleeding heavily. Prosecutors then charged the doctor with grievous bodily harm.

The doctor was acquitted by a lower court that judged he had acted within the law as the parents had given their consent.
On appeal, the regional court also acquitted the doctor but for different reasons.
The regional court upheld the original charge of grievous bodily harm but also ruled that the doctor was innocent as there was too much confusion on the legal situation around circumcision.

The court came down firmly against parents' right to have the ritual performed on young children.
"The body of the child is irreparably and permanently changed by a circumcision," the court said. "This change contravenes the interests of the child to decide later on his religious beliefs."
be illegal?

The decision caused outrage in Germany's Jewish community.
The head of the Central Committee of Jews, Dieter Graumann, said the ruling was "an unprecedented and dramatic intervention in the right of religious communities to self-determination."

The judgement was an "outrageous and insensitive act. Circumcision of newborn boys is a fixed part of the Jewish religion and has been practiced worldwide for centuries," added Graumann.
"This religious right is respected in every country in the world."

Holm Putzke, a criminal law expert at the University of Passau, told the Financial Times Deutschland that the ruling was "enormously important for doctors because for the first time they have legal certainty."
"Unlike many politicians, the court has not allowed itself to be scared off by charges of anti-Semitism or religious intolerance," added Putzke.

The World Health Organisation has estimated that nearly one in three males 15 or over is circumcised. In the United States, the operation is often performed for hygiene reasons on infants.
Thousands of young boys are circumcised every year in Germany, especially in the country's large Jewish and Muslim communities.
The court specified that circumcision was not illegal if carried out for medical reasons.

Now this is just music to my ears, hey Germany who's awesome? YOUR awesome!

I don't know what to think...
Israel will NOT be happy..

[Genivaria]

Its an infringement upon the child's rights.

Can I ask you, out of curiosity, if you also oppose forced genital reconstruction on intersex babies with ambiguous genitalia which do not threaten their health? I just wanted to know if you were consistent.

Not sure I understand.

[Norstal]

It doesn't cause harm (not that much anyways).^{[citation needed]} It also infringes on some people's cultures.

Permanently lopping off a part of the body of someone who is given no say whatsoever is an infringement of that person's human rights, barring a legitimate medical shit-hitting-the-fan situation. If he wants it done later, when he can speak for himself, it's then his personal business.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_eff ... _sensation

There are only mixed and conflicting reports about circumcision. There are is no conclusive proof there is medical harm. Therefore, it doesn't cause harm.

And no, circumcision is part of the Jewish culture. This is a disgusting breach of culture comparable to the Christian converters and missionaries in Asia and third world countries. Parents should have the right to include their children in their own culture in order to propagate it.

[Yammata]

I see circumcision the same way as I see piercing a babies ears, you don't own them they are a human and altering their body without permission makes you scum. I don't care if it's insensitive to any religion who would listen to a god "who said hey...... cut this part of your penis off"?! That sounds like the behavior of a schizophrenic person. I can see getting cut by your own choice when your older but not when you can't fight back.

[Page]

Can I ask you, out of curiosity, if you also oppose forced genital reconstruction on intersex babies with ambiguous genitalia which do not threaten their health? I just wanted to know if you were consistent.

Not sure I understand.

Usually when a baby is born intersex a doctor says to the parents "so what gender do you want to make it?" Should this be legal or not? I believe that is just as wrong, if not much worse than circumcision.

[Wamitoria]

I see circumcision the same way as I see piercing a babies ears, you don't own them they are a human and altering their body without permission makes you scum.

There is no middle finger big enough.

[Southern Patriots]

German court rules religious circumcision on boys an assault

Now this is just music to my ears, hey Germany who's awesome? YOUR awesome!

I don't know what to think...
Israel will NOT be happy..

Israel doesn't let the world influence it's abuse of a people and stockpiling of WMDs. Why should Israel set international policy on baby penises?

[Galla-]

Because removing the foreskin in no way impedes a person's ability to function.

Neither does removing a clitoris.

Now we have hyperbolic nonsense comparisons with FGM. Yep, this is a circumcision debate alright.

Either come up with actual proof of harm of circumcision, or get out of the thread, tbh.

[Norstal]

Show that it's harmful first.

Its an infringement upon the child's rights.

That's not harmful. You experience the loss of rights everyday when you were a kid, e.g you didn't get the candy you want.

[Narrow Path]

Yep, I'd say it's anti-semitism alright. You know my parents circumcised me as an infant without my permission and I don't feel the least bit assaulted. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, as long as I live under my parent's house their rights as parents trump mine as their child any day (I'm 21 btw). This is just another example of the supposedly "tolerant" liberal (I use the term as an American would understand it) ideology stamping out anything that doesn't agree with its perspective, most of it judeo-christian. What jackasses! This is why I lean towards anarchism. Artificial governments are just tools for small men to impose their will upon other men, no matter how well intentioned.

[Genivaria]

Not sure I understand.

Usually when a baby is born intersex a doctor says to the parents "so what gender do you want to make it?" Should this be legal or not? I believe that is just as wrong, if not much worse than circumcision.

Hmmmm...its not for the parents to decide.

[Seshephe]

HOW exactly is this antisemitism?

Because it greatly discriminates against Jewish culture. The German courts can go fuck themselves as far as I am concerned.

Religion is not above basic human rights though. Sorry, I agree with the ruling, though I am not sure that this is a smart move politically by Germany.

[Olthar]

Query: Why is it that whenever the idea of Africans performing genital mutilation on girls is brought up, it is seen as backwards and barbaric, but when someone opposes the genital mutilation of boys, they are anti-Semitic? Genital mutilation is genital mutilation, and if you're going to say that Jews can lop of the end of boys' penises, then why can't the Africans lop off the clitoris and labia?