The catastrophe of the values caused by the communism

[Turan Federasyonu]

All have heard about the problems of the post-soviet republics and the other countries of the former socialist block such as high crime rate, anarchy, corruption, challenging poverty and a certain degree of chaos. I am from such a country part of the former soviet union- in the Caspian Basin- Central Asia region with a situation more or less similar to the other post-soviet states and certainly worse than in the post socialist countries in central and eastern Europe. We are under authoritarian regime, the society is embarassed, doesnt know whom to believe, the mafia and the state is the same thing. All these are symptoms of an awful inherited lack of values. I tell inherited because the society has been and continues to be in a vacuum of values for many decades. We have fallen in such a veacuum thanks to the communism. The communism succeeded to destroy traditional values in which the people had believed for alot of centuries, which have been central for the lives of the people. In stead of some new values (The communists actually tried to invent new values, which however did not find a basis, did not find a connection, could not be embraced by the human soul because the communist values were anti-natural, falsive, invented by ill brains- too vulgar, simple, pragmatic values of a materialism.), during the communism emerged a huge vacuum of values. Everything which happens now- momentum of criminality, anarchy, amoralism, authoritarianism, religious fanatism etc. are not because of the democratization and the degradation of the planned economy as many left-wing... idiots think. All these problems are product of this vacuum of values, it is the biggest problem in such societies. We always speak that we need a change in our conciousness- exactly inconnection to this: return to the traditional values of the human race, cultivation of a culture of freedom, national pride, inititiveness. Only this may help such societies to significantly change

[Sinlenian Zindujan]

Blah-blah-blah, commies are bad, blah-blah-blah.
The real reason of the collapse of values is CAPITALISM. So go, buy or steal a gun and kill that necktie-eating tyrant.

[Turan Federasyonu]

Blah-blah-blah, commies are bad, blah-blah-blah.
The real reason of the collapse of values is CAPITALISM. So go, buy or steal a gun and kill that necktie-eating tyrant.

Excuse me where are you from?? I suppose from a capitalist country. So if you hate capitalism why dont you go to North Korea or Cuba?

[Ovisterra]

Communism has never been tried on a national level. Prove the Soviet Union was communist. Go on.

Blah-blah-blah, commies are bad, blah-blah-blah.
The real reason of the collapse of values is CAPITALISM. So go, buy or steal a gun and kill that necktie-eating tyrant.

Excuse me where are you from?? I suppose from a capitalist country. So if you hate capitalism why dont you go to North Korea or Cuba?

Because North Korea and Cuba are oppressive hell-holes that aren't remotely communist.

[Turan Federasyonu]

I ask because there are many people in the western countries and especially on NS who are sympathetic to communism but prefer to stay in their capitalist homeplaces and tell that the peoples of the former communist states have not valued the pluses of the communism. And second question: Why was it full with escapees from the soviet union while noone from a western country came to it. Nobody escapes from good, dear.

[Castille de Italia]

I support you wholeheartedly. Communism may seem good on the outside, it oppresses the people, destroys families, and ruins values. That's why the USSR collapsed. Meanwhile, the PRC may seem it's doing well, but they're bound to have an economic collapse soon. All in all, Communism doesn't work, and Capitalism is the only way that works.

[Turan Federasyonu]

Communism has never been tried on a national level. Prove the Soviet Union was communist. Go on.

Excuse me where are you from?? I suppose from a capitalist country. So if you hate capitalism why dont you go to North Korea or Cuba?

Because North Korea and Cuba are oppressive hell-holes that aren't remotely communist.

Aa this is a demagogy that, look, the communism is a marvellous idea but has shown a different face in practice, and what we had was not a real communism. There are no things which are very good but just look bad, the communism has shown its real face in the history, i will creat a different topic on that, too

[Ovisterra]

I ask because there are many people in the western countries and especially on NS who are sympathetic to communism but prefer to stay in their capitalist homeplaces and tell that the peoples of the former communist states have not valued the pluses of the communism. And second question: Why was it full with escapees from the soviet union while noone from a western country came to it. Nobody escapes from good, dear.

There are no "former communist countries". They simply do not exist. There are many "former Soviet countries" but no "former communist countries". The reason people hated the Soviet Union was because it was Stalinist.

[Ovisterra]

Communism has never been tried on a national level. Prove the Soviet Union was communist. Go on.



Because North Korea and Cuba are oppressive hell-holes that aren't remotely communist.

Aa this is a demagogy that, look, the communism is a marvellous idea but has shown a different face in practice, and what we had was not a real communism. There are no things which are very good but just look bad, the communism has shown its real face in the history,

Communism has not shown its "real face" because no country has ever adopted it.

If you want to make a point, provide some examples.

I support you wholeheartedly. Communism may seem good on the outside, it oppresses the people, destroys families, and ruins values. That's why the USSR collapsed. Meanwhile, the PRC may seem it's doing well, but they're bound to have an economic collapse soon. All in all, Communism doesn't work, and Capitalism is the only way that works.

Jaysus. At least read the thread. I've pointed out that the USSR wasn't communist. If you disagree, that's OK, but at least say why.

[Turan Federasyonu]

I support you wholeheartedly. Communism may seem good on the outside, it oppresses the people, destroys families, and ruins values. That's why the USSR collapsed. Meanwhile, the PRC may seem it's doing well, but they're bound to have an economic collapse soon. All in all, Communism doesn't work, and Capitalism is the only way that works.

Yes, Id add just one thing to your comment: The PRC will not face only economic collapse (which is not the most important thing in the life) but also a social chaos and a fullscale moral degradation in the future, when the catastrophe of the values is already completed. Because in Eastern Europe and central Asia the catastrophe did not starts in the 90s, we are now picking its fruits but it has started many decades ago.

[Turan Federasyonu]

I ask because there are many people in the western countries and especially on NS who are sympathetic to communism but prefer to stay in their capitalist homeplaces and tell that the peoples of the former communist states have not valued the pluses of the communism. And second question: Why was it full with escapees from the soviet union while noone from a western country came to it. Nobody escapes from good, dear.

There are no "former communist countries". They simply do not exist. There are many "former Soviet countries" but no "former communist countries". The reason people hated the Soviet Union was because it was Stalinist.

Exactly the stalinism is the real communism. Full "equality", dictature of the proletariat- real communism.

[Conserative Morality]

I'd probably put the current problems up more towards the material effects of Communism rather than any sort of values collapse.

[Ovisterra]

There are no "former communist countries". They simply do not exist. There are many "former Soviet countries" but no "former communist countries". The reason people hated the Soviet Union was because it was Stalinist.

Exactly the stalinism is the real communism. Full "equality", dictature of the proletariat- real communism.

I call bullshit.

Communism (from Latin communis - common, universal) is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order.

The bit in bold is why you're wrong.

[Castille de Italia]

I support you wholeheartedly. Communism may seem good on the outside, it oppresses the people, destroys families, and ruins values. That's why the USSR collapsed. Meanwhile, the PRC may seem it's doing well, but they're bound to have an economic collapse soon. All in all, Communism doesn't work, and Capitalism is the only way that works.

Jaysus. At least read the thread. I've pointed out that the USSR wasn't communist. If you disagree, that's OK, but at least say why.

Sure, the Soviet Union wasn't completely Communist, but they claimed to be. Everyone there was on the same standard of living, whether you were a farmer or a businessman. Even then, the government oppressed you, and you just another Commie to us Americans and other Westerners. But the USSR was still Communist, they went through numerous healthcare projects, built cheap housing for "the people", and made almost everyone work hard labor.

[Turan Federasyonu]

just the opposite - wikipedia shows im right. Classless, stateless, nationless community- full lack of respect for the differences in the people, ruining of the human freedoms

[Ovisterra]

But the USSR was still Communist, they went through numerous healthcare projects, built cheap housing for "the people", and made almost everyone work hard labor.

Sweet jesus, why is this so hard for people to understand? It didn't meet the definition of communism, therefore it wasn't communist.

[Ovisterra]

just the opposite - wikipedia shows im right. Classless, stateless, nationless community- full lack of respect for the differences in the people, ruining of the human freedoms

Soviet Russia had classes, was a state and had money. Therefore it was not communist.

[The USOT]

Communism has never been tried on a national level. Prove the Soviet Union was communist. Go on.



Because North Korea and Cuba are oppressive hell-holes that aren't remotely communist.

Aa this is a demagogy that, look, the communism is a marvellous idea but has shown a different face in practice, and what we had was not a real communism. There are no things which are very good but just look bad, the communism has shown its real face in the history, i will creat a different topic on that, too

But it has been practiced very succesfully in the way it was meant to in many areas around the world.

This for instance is from a commune in Virginia USA called Twin Oaks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTwJz8c4wcY
That is an actual commune.

What you are reffering to with the "communist countries" is a system made by a notable psychopath who beleived that you could create a libertarian society through authoritarian means, and died before his own ideal occured. This monstrous system he developed was used as the basis for international communist systems. Its not demagogy to say that a system which does not meet any of the criteria for communism was by no means communist. If I could convince an entire city that a potato is actually called a turkey, that does not mean that the key defenition of a turkey is anywhere close to that of a potato.

[Castille de Italia]

But the USSR was still Communist, they went through numerous healthcare projects, built cheap housing for "the people", and made almost everyone work hard labor.

Sweet jesus, why is this so hard for people to understand? It didn't meet the definition of communism, therefore it wasn't communist.

It was still Communist, whether or not it met the definition. They very Left and very Authoritarian, the very same as the PRC. Go talk to Karl Marx himself. He'll fill you in on the details, not Wikipedia...

[Hollorous]

Jaysus. At least read the thread. I've pointed out that the USSR wasn't communist. If you disagree, that's OK, but at least say why.

Sure, the Soviet Union wasn't completely Communist, but they claimed to be. Everyone there was on the same standard of living, whether you were a farmer or a businessman. Even then, the government oppressed you, and you just another Commie to us Americans and other Westerners. But the USSR was still Communist, they went through numerous healthcare projects, built cheap housing for "the people", and made almost everyone work hard labor.

During the 20th century, the USA also went though numerous healthcare projects (Medicare/Medicaid), built low income housing, and there were plenty of government funded labor-intensive projects (TVA, highways). That's a pretty low threshold for what constitutes "communism".

[Radiatia]

I don't think that "returning to traditional values" is a very good idea. Traditional values involve barbarism, believing the world is flat and living semi-nomadic lifestyles, just as our ancestors did hundreds of years ago.

You have used communism as a reason to fear progress, which is something very dangerous and very tragic.

You should never fear progress. If a system like communism doesn't work (and I say "if" as, technically, communism has never actually existed) you should not go back to the way they were before - you should instead continue to strive forward.

The fact is that if these "traditional values" of yours were so great, why did people feel the need to change to a communist system in the first place?

Communism and Capitalism are both outdated concepts. At the current time Liberal Democracy is about the best system that the human race has to offer, but what I'm trying to say is: Go forwards. Don't go backwards, go forwards.

[Castille de Italia]

Let's face it, ants are the only species capable of practicing Communism...

[Tlaceceyaya]

Let's face it, ants are the only species capable of practicing Communism...

Ants have classes. Ergo, not communist.

[Ovisterra]

Sweet jesus, why is this so hard for people to understand? It didn't meet the definition of communism, therefore it wasn't communist.

It was still Communist, whether or not it met the definition.

"Despite not meeting any of the values actually required to be communist, they were communist"

You do realise how absurd and intellectually dishonest that is?

They very Left and very Authoritarian,

Authoritarian. Another reason they weren't communist.

the very same as the PRC.

The PRC is even less communist than the USSR was.

Go talk to Karl Marx himself. He'll fill you in on the details, not Wikipedia...

He's dead.

[The Realm of God]

Sweet jesus, why is this so hard for people to understand? It didn't meet the definition of communism, therefore it wasn't communist.

It was still Communist, whether or not it met the definition. They very Left and very Authoritarian, the very same as the PRC. Go talk to Karl Marx himself. He'll fill you in on the details, not Wikipedia...

The USSR was stalinist, not communist doesn't matter what they called themselves, I can call myself a clown, doesnt mean it is true.

Oh and suggesting Necromancy in order to get a correct definition is......absurd.