All Y’all Atheists.

[Veladio]

IIRC doesn't the Catholic Church accept evolution?

Yes. But why were'n't they right before? Why didn't God clue them in on it before hand?

I don't disagree with you I've always accepted evolution, and like I said before, I'm not a Christian, therefore I don't believe in the papacy anyways

[Dyakovo]

No I'm not Christian for my Earthtly benefit,¹ but I don't want my soul to go to hell.²
The happiness is just a side-benefit. Christians usually are happier³ unless we're getting killed or persecuted against (like in the early Roman times). We have pray to god when we are in a desperate situation, and we keep a network of Christian friends.

Also, I was just asking a question, I wasn't telling any of you what you should or should not be.

1: Then why bring up that survey?
2: That's okay. Chances are it won't regardless of whether you believe in Yahweh or not.
3: My personal experience is that that is not the case.

[Seperates]

No offense, but I really don't see the benefit of someone being atheist because atheists are infact, less happy.
Furthermore, they are more likely to commit suicide.http://www.adherents.com/misc/religion_suicide.html

Correlation does not imply causation. Perhaps it's the case that suicidal people are more likely to be atheist then the other way around? In debates with people about the health of masturbation, they often cite studies that people who masturbate are more depressed. I always have to ask, ''Or it because people who are depressed masturbate more?'' It's very likely that when one loses their faith in the world, they will lose their faith in God. I imagine the latter is more prevalent than the former.

I haven't lost my faith in the world. I've lost my faith in dieties, but not the world. I'm still an optimist, despite the willfull ignorance of my fellow humans. It's one of the reasons I still debate.

[Seperates]

Yes. But why were'n't they right before? Why didn't God clue them in on it before hand?

I don't disagree with you I've always accepted evolution, and like I said before, I'm not a Christian, therefore I don't believe in the papacy anyways

More importantly, why wasn't any other religion able to discern this?

[Mavorpen]

I said that they did not support Intelligent Design, I did not say that they were fully on board with evolution as a 100% purely biological process. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_C ... _evolution

I think they have something of a theistic evolution idea going on. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution Which means that the process of evolution is created by God I guess.

Theistic Evolution means that God guides the process, or pushed the process along when life hit road bumps. At least, that's what I was told by someone who believed such a thing.

[The Blaatschapen]

IIRC doesn't the Catholic Church accept evolution?

Yea. It only took them until the 90s (?) to accept it.

Less stubborn than some Protestant denominations

Which makes my point of them being surpassed by others nowadays quite a valid one.

[The Blaatschapen]

IIRC doesn't the Catholic Church accept evolution?

They do now, after it was proven without a doubt. The Catholic Church are masters of changing their stances when it benefits them.

2000 years of being a political force makes you switch colours better than John Kerry on a diet of chameleons.

[Veladio]

I don't disagree with you I've always accepted evolution, and like I said before, I'm not a Christian, therefore I don't believe in the papacy anyways

More importantly, why wasn't any other religion able to discern this?

Well as far as Wicca goes, we are a nature oriented religion, so as far as evolution goes...we're pretty much on board with it There is nothing in Wicca that says that evolution cannot be true, which is another one of the many reasons that I converted from Christianity to Wicca.

[Demon Cleaner]

I am currently reading about the God debate and the issue of the relationship between the Catholic church and science often comes up. Could anybody provide me evidence that the Catholic church had a bad relationship with science?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair

There you go.

Though nowadays the catholic church has been surpassed by others. Intelligent Design for example, is not supported by that German dude in Rome.

I disagree. Galileo had sworn to Bellarmine (the same person who fought against Copernicus's books being prohibited) that he would not publicly endorse heliocentricity. Secondly, he mocked the pope in ''Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems''. Thirdly, his book entered the realm of scripture, which the Jesuits warned him against. When it was found that he deceived the church, he was punished, but not very severely.

Galileo was released into the custody of the Archbishop of Siena and lived in his palace. Then he was allowed to return to his villa in Florence. Although technically under house arrest, he was still allowed to visit his daughters at the convent of San Matteo. He was also permitted by the church to research matters not relating to heliocentrism, and he died of natural causes in 1642. The worst that happened to him was, in the words of Alfred North Whitehead, am honorable detention and a mild reproof before dying peacefully in his bed.

[The Blaatschapen]

I said that they did not support Intelligent Design, I did not say that they were fully on board with evolution as a 100% purely biological process. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_C ... _evolution

I think they have something of a theistic evolution idea going on. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution Which means that the process of evolution is created by God I guess.

Theistic Evolution means that God guides the process, or pushed the process along when life hit road bumps. At least, that's what I was told by someone who believed such a thing.

Just reading up on catholic dogma, it seems that for them:
-Humans are a special creation and they have the human souls, all other creations are not special
-The biological process of evolution was invented by God (like all biological processes)

Unless I interpreted aforementioned wikipage wrong on this.

[Demon Cleaner]

Correlation does not imply causation. Perhaps it's the case that suicidal people are more likely to be atheist then the other way around? In debates with people about the health of masturbation, they often cite studies that people who masturbate are more depressed. I always have to ask, ''Or it because people who are depressed masturbate more?'' It's very likely that when one loses their faith in the world, they will lose their faith in God. I imagine the latter is more prevalent than the former.

I haven't lost my faith in the world. I've lost my faith in dieties, but not the world. I'm still an optimist, despite the willfull ignorance of my fellow humans. It's one of the reasons I still debate.

I never said you did. I only said it was more likely that somebody who loses their faith in the world will lose their faith in a deity, rather than someone losing their faith in a deity and then the world.

[Seperates]

I said that they did not support Intelligent Design, I did not say that they were fully on board with evolution as a 100% purely biological process. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_C ... _evolution

I think they have something of a theistic evolution idea going on. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution Which means that the process of evolution is created by God I guess.

Theistic Evolution means that God guides the process, or pushed the process along when life hit road bumps. At least, that's what I was told by someone who believed such a thing.

Which is stupid when you consider the fact that it's based on mindless variables, and that you don't invoke God everytime a snowflake is made, so why should you do such a thing with a process such as genetics or natural selection? Besides the fact that this completely, invalidates Scripture from a knowledge on reality standpoint, so how can we trust it on other statements regarding the nature of our Universe, especially the ones with an incredible lack of evidence?

[Furious Grandmothers]

Theistic Evolution means that God guides the process, or pushed the process along when life hit road bumps. At least, that's what I was told by someone who believed such a thing.

Just reading up on catholic dogma, it seems that for them:
-Humans are a special creation and they have the human souls, all other creations are not special
-The biological process of evolution was invented by God (like all biological processes)

Unless I interpreted aforementioned wikipage wrong on this.

The sheer arrogance of the bolded always irks me.

[Demon Cleaner]

Just reading up on catholic dogma, it seems that for them:
-Humans are a special creation and they have the human souls, all other creations are not special
-The biological process of evolution was invented by God (like all biological processes)

Unless I interpreted aforementioned wikipage wrong on this.

The sheer arrogance of the bolded always irks me.

I think that might even contradict something Jesus told to the Pharisees.

[The Blaatschapen]

Just reading up on catholic dogma, it seems that for them:
-Humans are a special creation and they have the human souls, all other creations are not special
-The biological process of evolution was invented by God (like all biological processes)

Unless I interpreted aforementioned wikipage wrong on this.

The sheer arrogance of the bolded always irks me.

It's specieism *nods*

[Veladio]

Just reading up on catholic dogma, it seems that for them:
-Humans are a special creation and they have the human souls, all other creations are not special
-The biological process of evolution was invented by God (like all biological processes)

Unless I interpreted aforementioned wikipage wrong on this.

The sheer arrogance of the bolded always irks me.

Yup, my parents could never tell me why, if god loved me soooo much, my dog wouldn't be in heaven with me

[Demon Cleaner]

The sheer arrogance of the bolded always irks me.

It's specieism *nods*

I think Jesus repudiated it.

[The Blaatschapen]

The sheer arrogance of the bolded always irks me.

Yup, my parents could never tell me why, if god loved me soooo much, my dog wouldn't be in heaven with me

Because you're not dead yet?

Or because he wasn't baptised?

[Veladio]

Yup, my parents could never tell me why, if god loved me soooo much, my dog wouldn't be in heaven with me

Because you're not dead yet?

Or because he wasn't baptised?

No lol, as in when my dog died why he wouldn't go to heaven

And in Christianity apparently animals don't have souls...

[Seperates]

I haven't lost my faith in the world. I've lost my faith in dieties, but not the world. I'm still an optimist, despite the willfull ignorance of my fellow humans. It's one of the reasons I still debate.

I never said you did. I only said it was more likely that somebody who loses their faith in the world will lose their faith in a deity, rather than someone losing their faith in a deity and then the world.

The majority of atheists that I know that have become depressed in their atheism, are so not because of their atheism, but because of parental rejection and/or isolation and rejection from peer groups. And they will eventually get over it if anybody is willing to give them a shoulder to lean on. Rejecting an idea that has more or less been pushed onto you your whole life is difficult, stressful, and because it typically occurs midst highschool or college, the condition can be exacerbated because this is the time in your life when you are establishing your peer groups.

It is usually not the fault of the atheist, but the fault of the society. I may debate with my friends (if they push the point) who are of different religions, and throughly disprove them and demolish their arguements until they usually say "Let's agree to disagree", but in the end, they are still my friends, and I will happily help them through a difficult time, whatever the cause is.

[Seperates]

Because you're not dead yet?

Or because he wasn't baptised?

No lol, as in when my dog died why he wouldn't go to heaven

And in Christianity apparently animals don't have souls...

Nobody has souls.

[Demon Cleaner]

I never said you did. I only said it was more likely that somebody who loses their faith in the world will lose their faith in a deity, rather than someone losing their faith in a deity and then the world.

The majority of atheists that I know that have become depressed in their atheism, are so not because of their atheism, but because of parental rejection and/or isolation and rejection from peer groups. Adn they will eventually get over it if anybody is willing to give them a shoulder to lean on. Rejecting an idea that has more or less been pushed onto your whole life is difficult, stressful, and because it typically occurs midst highschool or college, the condition can be exacerbated because this is the time in your life when you are establishing your peer groups.

It is usually not the fault of the atheist, but the fault of the society. I may debate with my friends (if they push the point) who are of different religions, and throughly disprove them and demolish their arguenments until they usually say "Let's agree to disagree", but in the end, they are still my friends, and I will happily help them through a difficult time, whatever the cause is.

I'm surprised you're refuting me when I was defending atheism.

[The Blaatschapen]

I never said you did. I only said it was more likely that somebody who loses their faith in the world will lose their faith in a deity, rather than someone losing their faith in a deity and then the world.

The majority of atheists that I know that have become depressed in their atheism, are so not because of their atheism, but because of parental rejection and/or isolation and rejection from peer groups. Adn they will eventually get over it if anybody is willing to give them a shoulder to lean on. Rejecting an idea that has more or less been pushed onto your whole life is difficult, stressful, and because it typically occurs midst highschool or college, the condition can be exacerbated because this is the time in your life when you are establishing your peer groups.

And it's even harder to establish peer groups when my ISP keeps blocking the pirate bay

[Scrooge Mc Duck Company]

Nobody has souls.

Wrong. Actually he has:

[Veladio]

I never said you did. I only said it was more likely that somebody who loses their faith in the world will lose their faith in a deity, rather than someone losing their faith in a deity and then the world.

The majority of atheists that I know that have become depressed in their atheism, are so not because of their atheism, but because of parental rejection and/or isolation and rejection from peer groups. Adn they will eventually get over it if anybody is willing to give them a shoulder to lean on. Rejecting an idea that has more or less been pushed onto your whole life is difficult, stressful, and because it typically occurs midst highschool or college, the condition can be exacerbated because this is the time in your life when you are establishing your peer groups.

It is usually not the fault of the atheist, but the fault of the society. I may debate with my friends (if they push the point) who are of different religions, and throughly disprove them and demolish their arguenments until they usually say "Let's agree to disagree", but in the end, they are still my friends, and I will happily help them through a difficult time, whatever the cause is.

Well, I have many atheist friends and we just agree not to discuss religion. Some of them come from religious families and I'm always there for them when their parents reject them. Just saying religious =/= intolerant.