All Y’all Atheists.

[Seperates]

Holding a belief like that in 21 century is a direct insult to those who worked hard in some half-dark laboratories. Hence the attitude. Just because you hold a book-fairytail doesn't mean that you can judge everything.

Anyway I don't want to have a full discussion about it cause I was doing this in the age of 15. It is unimportant to me anymore.

Holding a belief in the 21st century is normal. I hold the belief that there is a computer sitting in front of me.

No... you can easily prove that there is computer in front of you. Otherwise you'd be schizophrenic.

[Condunum]

I insist sir (as I always do):

(Image)

And:

(Image)

Just saying...........

Perhaps I'm not doing any good for arguing, it seems you're very much committed to your beliefs and the idea that mine are ridiculous.

Nonetheless, look at the vastness of the universe and explain to me how we can be the only intelligent life in it?

That is to say, if you would indulge me in flipping your argument on it's head. Supposing the universe were created with us as nothing special in it. Why then have we not found a single trace of life that did not originate on this planet?

The sheer scale, akin to the idea that some 100^100 gamblers roll their dice 100 times and only a single one rolls 1 despite billions of years.


I don't love to use the Fermi paradox, because I don't really think alien life and Christianity are mutually exclusive, but it poses serious questions to the person who presupposes an uncaused, unpurposed universe.

We haven't found much evidence of other life because we haven't found much evidence of other life, end of. It's easy to make the guess that there is other life, because of the sheer number of terra-sized planets.

That really doesn't change much. If it doesn't impede progress (and mainstream christianity rarely, if ever, does), what need is there to prove it "silly" other than some sort of self-gratification?

What are you talking about? Have you seen the state of the U.S. Republican and Democratic Parties? Political use of christianity activly impedes onto the social progress and the policy of our government. The entire false idea of "trickle-down theory" that the Republicans base their tax models off of assumes that the rich are 'good philanthropic Christians', which is not true in practice. It promotes ill creation of ideas, gullibility and dampens discourse. It is only when religion ceases being moralistic and becomes secular that it actually does good, with secular colleges and aid-giving agencies. But the fact of the matter is that by that time it is already a secular organization, so why not just drop the pre-tense of religion altogether?

I can tell I can't win this one, so I'll just give up. Your appearance as being anti-religion is infuriating, but I can tell I'd never win this argument, because I don't actually have the mindset I'm arguing for, and I thrust myself into a position I couldn't possibly defend.

[Condunum]

Holding a belief in the 21st century is normal. I hold the belief that there is a computer sitting in front of me.

No... you can easily prove that there is computer in front of you. Otherwise you'd be schizophrenic.

Delusional, not Schizophrenic. The two are not mutually inclusive.

But then, outside of psychology, this is arguing semantics.

[Seperates]

What are you talking about? Have you seen the state of the U.S. Republican and Democratic Parties? Political use of christianity activly impedes onto the social progress and the policy of our government. The entire false idea of "trickle-down theory" that the Republicans base their tax models off of assumes that the rich are 'good philanthropic Christians', which is not true in practice. It promotes ill creation of ideas, gullibility and dampens discourse. It is only when religion ceases being moralistic and becomes secular that it actually does good, with secular colleges and aid-giving agencies. But the fact of the matter is that by that time it is already a secular organization, so why not just drop the pre-tense of religion altogether?

Political use...POLITICAL use. I don't agree that any public policy should be determined by any religion. I also happen to know many secular Christians. Secularism and Religion are not mutually exclusive, only under certain circumstances. I am VERY secular when it comes to politics, however I am also a VERY religious Wiccan. Case in point, I don't force my beliefs on others...it isn't my place.

You are right, secularism and religion are not exclusive, case in point Wall Street. But it is best when they are exclusive.
Why are you a very religous Wiccan?

[The Merchant Republics]

Perhaps I'm not doing any good for arguing, it seems you're very much committed to your beliefs and the idea that mine are ridiculous.

Nonetheless, look at the vastness of the universe and explain to me how we can be the only intelligent life in it?

That is to say, if you would indulge me in flipping your argument on it's head. Supposing the universe were created with us as nothing special in it. Why then have we not found a single trace of life that did not originate on this planet?

The sheer scale, akin to the idea that some 100^100 gamblers roll their dice 100 times and only a single one rolls 1 despite billions of years.


I don't love to use the Fermi paradox, because I don't really think alien life and Christianity are mutually exclusive, but it poses serious questions to the person who presupposes an uncaused, unpurposed universe.

EDIT: To make this more thread applicable.

Let me generalize the question. Suppose Earth was found to be the only planet in the entire universe that held life, how would it change your beliefs about the universe?

But we have found simple life elsewhere, and have found many other planets with the potential for complex life forms. So your hypothetical question is irrelevent.

Wut?

How in the hell did I miss that?

[Seperates]

No... you can easily prove that there is computer in front of you. Otherwise you'd be schizophrenic.

Delusional, not Schizophrenic. The two are not mutually inclusive.

But then, outside of psychology, this is arguing semantics.

Delusions are a part of schizophrenia, but I concede the point.

The point of the matter is that we use conventional logic for everything else, why do we not apply it to religion?

[Raumm]

I am a deist.

[Condunum]

Delusional, not Schizophrenic. The two are not mutually inclusive.

But then, outside of psychology, this is arguing semantics.

Delusions are a part of schizophrenia, but I concede the point.

The point of the matter is that we use conventional logic for everything else, why do we not apply it to religion?

Because religion. *nod*

No, really it's because we're still a minority in a sea of humans who would be offended and otherwise outraged if their religions were to be openly and widely discredited based on conventional thinking. Of course, they are often by many speakers, (Dawkins comes to mind,) and their obvious distaste is example for the outcome of discrediting their beliefs. I can sympathize with that, surprisingly. It's hard having your core beliefs being shown to you as wrong.

[Veladio]

Political use...POLITICAL use. I don't agree that any public policy should be determined by any religion. I also happen to know many secular Christians. Secularism and Religion are not mutually exclusive, only under certain circumstances. I am VERY secular when it comes to politics, however I am also a VERY religious Wiccan. Case in point, I don't force my beliefs on others...it isn't my place.

You are right, secularism and religion are not exclusive, case in point Wall Street. But it is best when they are exclusive.
Why are you a very religous Wiccan?

I just am, I converted from Christianity after questioning the religion for a few years. I read up on the subject, had a couple of religious experiences, et cetera. It gives me inner peace and prosperity, which is all I ask for in a religion. Im sure Christian's get the same feeling. Im not going to sit here and argue if my religion is right or not because, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. If Atheism makes you happy, go for it. If Wicca makes me happy, I hope you will respect that and not insult my intelligence for it.

[Scrooge Mc Duck Company]

Perhaps I'm not doing any good for arguing, it seems you're very much committed to your beliefs and the idea that mine are ridiculous.

Nonetheless, look at the vastness of the universe and explain to me how we can be the only intelligent life in it?

That is to say, if you would indulge me in flipping your argument on it's head. Supposing the universe were created with us as nothing special in it. Why then have we not found a single trace of life that did not originate on this planet?

The sheer scale, akin to the idea that some 100^100 gamblers roll their dice 100 times and only a single one rolls 1 despite billions of years.


I don't love to use the Fermi paradox, because I don't really think alien life and Christianity are mutually exclusive, but it poses serious questions to the person who presupposes an uncaused, unpurposed universe.

EDIT: To make this more thread applicable.

Let me generalize the question. Suppose Earth was found to be the only planet in the entire universe that held life, how would it change your beliefs about the universe?

Well there are theories that propose that we live because universe was built for us...... very selfish, isn't it?

As far as I'm concerned, I don't think that we 're alone. For all these billions of galaxies and planets, wonder this: even if, from the 200 billions of planets in a galaxy only one has life.... ONLY one, and same goes to the other galaxies, then we have around 200 billion alien form of lives. And by "aliens" I don't imply short green beings we see in films. Even a single germ counts as extraterrestrial. Well, that inrigues me. Doesn't you?

[Condunum]

I am a deist.

Yeah, I tried that drug once. I realize how impractical it was in the real world, and gave up on it.

[Scrooge Mc Duck Company]

I am a deist.

Yeah, I tried that drug once. I realize how impractical it was in the real world, and gave up on it.

Derogatory.... isn't it?

[Dyakovo]

I insist sir (as I always do):

(Image)

And:

(Image)

Just saying...........

Perhaps I'm not doing any good for arguing, it seems you're very much committed to your beliefs and the idea that mine are ridiculous.

Nonetheless, look at the vastness of the universe and explain to me how we can be the only intelligent life in it?

That is to say, if you would indulge me in flipping your argument on it's head. Supposing the universe were created with us as nothing special in it. Why then have we not found a single trace of life that did not originate on this planet?

The sheer scale, akin to the idea that some 100^100 gamblers roll their dice 100 times and only a single one rolls 1 despite billions of years.


I don't love to use the Fermi paradox, because I don't really think alien life and Christianity are mutually exclusive, but it poses serious questions to the person who presupposes an uncaused, unpurposed universe.

EDIT: To make this more thread applicable.

Let me generalize the question. Suppose Earth was found to be the only planet in the entire universe that held life, how would it change your beliefs about the universe?

Why would I make that supposition?

[The Multiversal Species Alliance]

I'm a religious humanist, does that count?

And didn't I ask that last time we had a thread like this?

As an Atheist? No,but you count as a Freethinker. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought

[Condunum]

Yeah, I tried that drug once. I realize how impractical it was in the real world, and gave up on it.

Derogatory.... isn't it?

What? Deism? Not really. It's basically saying the Universe is God, in a sense of saying that Almighty God is another term for the all encompassing, awe inspiring nature of the universe. At least, this was my understanding from Einstein's belief. However, I don't see it practical to make the comparison from God to the Universe, as it is easily misconstrued, as seen with the God Particle and common folk.

[Seperates]

But we have found simple life elsewhere, and have found many other planets with the potential for complex life forms. So your hypothetical question is irrelevent.

Wut?

How in the hell did I miss that?

Excuse me, we have found the building blocks to life in cosmic dust, there are no actual signs of it yet, though Europa has a high probability of containing bateria, and the Mars Science Laboratory should bring more conclusive evidence about the past and present potential for life on Mars in August.

Regardless, there are at least 2 more or less confirmed terresterial planets within the Kepler's vision with conditions much like Earth, with the amount being small fraction of the galaxy, and an infinteselly smaller fraction of the Universe.

[Condunum]

Wut?

How in the hell did I miss that?

Excuse me, we have found the building blocks to life in cosmic dust, there are no actual signs of it yet, though Europa has a high probability of containing bateria, and the Mars Science Laboratory should bring more conclusive evidence about the past and present potential for life on Mars in August.

Regardless, there are at least 2 more or less confirmed terresterial planets within the Kepler's vision with conditions much like Earth, with the amount being small fraction of the galaxy, and an infinteselly smaller fraction of the Universe.

I was understanding that one of Jupiter's moons could support life. Was it Titan?

[Scrooge Mc Duck Company]

What? Deism? Not really. It's basically saying the Universe is God, in a sense of saying that Almighty God is another term for the all encompassing, awe inspiring nature of the universe. At least, this was my understanding from Einstein's belief. However, I don't see it practical to make the comparison from God to the Universe, as it is easily misconstrued, as seen with the God Particle and common folk.

No I was talking about the "drug" comparison..... same thing you accused me for, depreciation.

Anyway, name it as you want. Universe is universe and is here to stay (at least for now).

[Veladio]

Excuse me, we have found the building blocks to life in cosmic dust, there are no actual signs of it yet, though Europa has a high probability of containing bateria, and the Mars Science Laboratory should bring more conclusive evidence about the past and present potential for life on Mars in August.

Regardless, there are at least 2 more or less confirmed terresterial planets within the Kepler's vision with conditions much like Earth, with the amount being small fraction of the galaxy, and an infinteselly smaller fraction of the Universe.

I was understanding that one of Jupiter's moons could support life. Was it Titan?

Europa

[Seperates]

You are right, secularism and religion are not exclusive, case in point Wall Street. But it is best when they are exclusive.
Why are you a very religous Wiccan?

I just am, I converted from Christianity after questioning the religion for a few years. I read up on the subject, had a couple of religious experiences, et cetera. It gives me inner peace and prosperity, which is all I ask for in a religion. Im sure Christian's get the same feeling. Im not going to sit here and argue if my religion is right or not because, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. If Atheism makes you happy, go for it. If Wicca makes me happy, I hope you will respect that and not insult my intelligence for it.

But WHY? Does it make the world make sense? Does it challenge you to go out and find knowledge for yourself? Why do you not apply your logic elsewhere in your life?

[Furious Grandmothers]

Derogatory.... isn't it?

What? Deism? Not really. It's basically saying the Universe is God, in a sense of saying that Almighty God is another term for the all encompassing, awe inspiring nature of the universe. At least, this was my understanding from Einstein's belief. However, I don't see it practical to make the comparison from God to the Universe, as it is easily misconstrued, as seen with the God Particle and common folk.

So what you're saying is if it looks like a universe (and IS a universe) why not call it a universe?

[Seperates]

Excuse me, we have found the building blocks to life in cosmic dust, there are no actual signs of it yet, though Europa has a high probability of containing bateria, and the Mars Science Laboratory should bring more conclusive evidence about the past and present potential for life on Mars in August.

Regardless, there are at least 2 more or less confirmed terresterial planets within the Kepler's vision with conditions much like Earth, with the amount being small fraction of the galaxy, and an infinteselly smaller fraction of the Universe.

I was understanding that one of Jupiter's moons could support life. Was it Titan?

It is Europa, due to it's actually sustaining of liquid water and chemical currents. The life we would find would probably be similar to the kind we find at the bottom of the ocean around steam vents.

[Seperates]

Delusions are a part of schizophrenia, but I concede the point.

The point of the matter is that we use conventional logic for everything else, why do we not apply it to religion?

Because religion. *nod*

No, really it's because we're still a minority in a sea of humans who would be offended and otherwise outraged if their religions were to be openly and widely discredited based on conventional thinking. Of course, they are often by many, (Dawkins comes to mind,) and their obvious distaste is example for the outcome of discrediting their beliefs. I can sympathize with that, surprisingly. It's hard having your core beliefs being shown to you as wrong.

Doesn't matter. Might does not make right.

[Norstal]

Ok, ok let's be serious now:

(Image)

Because this was definitely needed.

That's nihilism. Christians can be nihilist too.

[Veladio]

I just am, I converted from Christianity after questioning the religion for a few years. I read up on the subject, had a couple of religious experiences, et cetera. It gives me inner peace and prosperity, which is all I ask for in a religion. Im sure Christian's get the same feeling. Im not going to sit here and argue if my religion is right or not because, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. If Atheism makes you happy, go for it. If Wicca makes me happy, I hope you will respect that and not insult my intelligence for it.

But WHY? Does it make the world make sense? Does it challenge you to go out and find knowledge for yourself? Why do you not apply your logic elsewhere in your life?

An It Harm None, Do What Ye Will. That is the logic that I live by. I enjoy science classes and when science proves something, like evolution, then I generally go with science. I watch a lot of science documentaries, so yes I do try to find knowledge for myself. My logic, however, also tells me to respect the will of others and to respect nature. Now, the part you would probably disagree with, is the use of herbal medicines and "spells" which are pretty much invocations of the God/Goddess, or whichever pantheon you choose to believe in.