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All Y’all Atheists.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Scrooge Mc Duck Company
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Posts: 100
Founded: May 14, 2012
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Postby Scrooge Mc Duck Company » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:59 pm

I insist sir (as I always do):

Image


And:
Image


Just saying........... :roll:
Scrooge: And what can I do for you two gentlemen?
Collector for the Poor: Sir, we are collecting funds for the indigent and destitute.
Scrooge: For the what?
Collector for the Poor: We're collecting for the poor.
Scrooge: Oh. Aha. Well um, you realize if you give money to the poor, they won't be poor anymore, will they?
Collector for the Poor: Well, I..
Scrooge: And if they're not poor anymore, then you won't have to raise money for them anymore.
Collector for the Poor: Well, I suppose...
Scrooge: And if you don't have to raise money for them anymore, then you'd be out of a job. Oh please, gentlemen, don't ask me to put you out of a job. Not on Christmas Eve.
Collector for the Poor: Oh, we wouldn't do that, Mr. Scrooge.
Scrooge: Well then, I suggest you give this to the poor and be gone.

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Condunum
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Posts: 26273
Founded: Apr 26, 2011
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Postby Condunum » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:01 pm

Scrooge Mc Duck Company wrote:I insist sir (as I always do):



And:


Just saying........... :roll:

Yeah, except that sort of attitude is rarely ever respected, and you give atheists a bad name. Learn to tolerate, as many of the people who you are targeting have learned to.
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Seperates
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Posts: 14622
Founded: Sep 03, 2009
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Postby Seperates » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:04 pm

Condunum wrote:
Scrooge Mc Duck Company wrote:Ok, ok let's be serious now:

Because this was definitely needed.
Image

Well, actually, it's not a belief. It's an observation of a sigularity (which has now been more or less confirmed by the recent discovery of the Higgs Boson) expansion of immense magnitude that can occur in any true vacuum, which thus through mindless natural processes that are akin to the formation of a snow-flake, eventually though certain conditions can become self replicating, and through another mindless process called natural selection eventually diversify and increase in complexity as the attempt to survive and create progeny in a certain enviorment.

It's the same observations and expieriments by the scientific community that brought you the internet and all other scientific advances. Living in denial about it makes you a parasite on the intellectual community.
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

"The most important fact about us: that we are greater than the institutions and cultures we build."--Roberto Mangabeira Unger

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Seperates
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Posts: 14622
Founded: Sep 03, 2009
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Postby Seperates » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:05 pm

Condunum wrote:
Scrooge Mc Duck Company wrote:I insist sir (as I always do):



And:


Just saying........... :roll:

Yeah, except that sort of attitude is rarely ever respected, and you give atheists a bad name. Learn to tolerate, as many of the people who you are targeting have learned to.

I tolerate people, but I do not tolerate bad ideas. There is a distinct difference.
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

"The most important fact about us: that we are greater than the institutions and cultures we build."--Roberto Mangabeira Unger

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Scrooge Mc Duck Company
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Posts: 100
Founded: May 14, 2012
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Postby Scrooge Mc Duck Company » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:06 pm

Condunum wrote:
Scrooge Mc Duck Company wrote:I insist sir (as I always do):



And:


Just saying........... :roll:

Yeah, except that sort of attitude is rarely ever respected, and you give atheists a bad name. Learn to tolerate, as many of the people who you are targeting have learned to.


Ok you now what... thats....annoying :p . Every time you win an argument with a believer (which happens almost always), he starts like: "Ohh you shouldn't have talked like that...." and staff. I'm tired of this. :?

Learn to discuss and accept the fact that you can't have always right. And learn to stand on your feet and face the truth!

Jeez........ :rofl:
Last edited by Scrooge Mc Duck Company on Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Scrooge: And what can I do for you two gentlemen?
Collector for the Poor: Sir, we are collecting funds for the indigent and destitute.
Scrooge: For the what?
Collector for the Poor: We're collecting for the poor.
Scrooge: Oh. Aha. Well um, you realize if you give money to the poor, they won't be poor anymore, will they?
Collector for the Poor: Well, I..
Scrooge: And if they're not poor anymore, then you won't have to raise money for them anymore.
Collector for the Poor: Well, I suppose...
Scrooge: And if you don't have to raise money for them anymore, then you'd be out of a job. Oh please, gentlemen, don't ask me to put you out of a job. Not on Christmas Eve.
Collector for the Poor: Oh, we wouldn't do that, Mr. Scrooge.
Scrooge: Well then, I suggest you give this to the poor and be gone.

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Condunum
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Posts: 26273
Founded: Apr 26, 2011
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Postby Condunum » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:07 pm

Seperates wrote:
Condunum wrote:Because this was definitely needed.
Image

Well, actually, it's not a belief. It's an observation of a sigularity (which has now been more or less confirmed by the recent discovery of the Higgs Boson) expansion of immense magnitude that can occur in any true vacuum, which thus through mindless natural processes that are akin to the formation of a snow-flake, eventually though certain conditions can become self replicating, and through another mindless process called natural selection eventually diversify and increase in complexity as the attempt to survive and create progeny in a certain enviorment.

It's the same observations and expieriments by the scientific community that brought you the internet and all other scientific advances. Living in denial about it makes you a parasite on the intellectual community.

Wait, you actually think I was being serious? Come on, you've got to have seen my posts on here enough to know that I'm about as religious as Big Jim.
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Condunum
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Founded: Apr 26, 2011
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Postby Condunum » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:08 pm

Scrooge Mc Duck Company wrote:
Condunum wrote:Yeah, except that sort of attitude is rarely ever respected, and you give atheists a bad name. Learn to tolerate, as many of the people who you are targeting have learned to.


Ok you now what... thats....annoying :p . Every time you win an argument with a believer (which happens almost always), he starts like: "Ohh you shouldn't have talked like that...." and staff. I'm tired of this. :?

Learn to discuss and accept the fact that you can't have always right. And learn to stand on your feet and face the truth!

Jeez........ :rofl:

Except for one key fact: I'm not a "believer".
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Veladio
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Posts: 1360
Founded: Jul 05, 2012
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Postby Veladio » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:10 pm

Scrooge Mc Duck Company wrote:
Condunum wrote:Yeah, except that sort of attitude is rarely ever respected, and you give atheists a bad name. Learn to tolerate, as many of the people who you are targeting have learned to.


Ok you now what... thats....annoying :p . Every time you win an argument with a believer (which happens almost always), he starts like: "Ohh you shouldn't have talked like that...." and staff. I'm tired of this. :?

Learn to discuss and accept the fact that you can't have always right. And learn to stand on your feet and face the truth!

Jeez........ :rofl:


...sorry but just because someone has different beliefs than you does not mean you can ridicule them for it.
I am a Wiccan. Do not assume I am an Atheist in Religion threads simply because I support complete Secularization of Government Entities.

Social Libertarian (could care less about Economics, there are people who are more educated at it, so it is a waste of time to try and debate me on it.). As stated above I am a Wiccan, and I find solidarity with the Egyptian Deities. I support government secularization as well as complete freedom of religion, as I believe that to truly be secular, the state must respect all beliefs, and favor none. And I recently enlisted in the United States Navy.

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Dyakovo
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Posts: 83162
Founded: Nov 13, 2007
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Postby Dyakovo » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:11 pm

Condunum wrote:
Scrooge Mc Duck Company wrote:Ok, ok let's be serious now:

Because this was definitely needed.
Image

That was already posted.
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
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USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
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Ostro: I think women need to be trained
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Seperates
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14622
Founded: Sep 03, 2009
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Postby Seperates » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:11 pm

Condunum wrote:
Seperates wrote:Well, actually, it's not a belief. It's an observation of a sigularity (which has now been more or less confirmed by the recent discovery of the Higgs Boson) expansion of immense magnitude that can occur in any true vacuum, which thus through mindless natural processes that are akin to the formation of a snow-flake, eventually though certain conditions can become self replicating, and through another mindless process called natural selection eventually diversify and increase in complexity as the attempt to survive and create progeny in a certain enviorment.

It's the same observations and expieriments by the scientific community that brought you the internet and all other scientific advances. Living in denial about it makes you a parasite on the intellectual community.

Wait, you actually think I was being serious? Come on, you've got to have seen my posts on here enough to know that I'm about as religious as Big Jim.

I am aware. But such is the dialouge. Intolerance does not include calling people out on their bullshit when it smells to high heaven. Our assertion is actually more or less factual. That is what many of these people claim to believe, or watered-down versions of this crap. It still smells, regardless.
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

"The most important fact about us: that we are greater than the institutions and cultures we build."--Roberto Mangabeira Unger

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Condunum
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26273
Founded: Apr 26, 2011
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Postby Condunum » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:11 pm

Seperates wrote:
Condunum wrote:Yeah, except that sort of attitude is rarely ever respected, and you give atheists a bad name. Learn to tolerate, as many of the people who you are targeting have learned to.

I tolerate people, but I do not tolerate bad ideas. There is a distinct difference.

The majority of Christians don't follow Evangelical Protestantism, which is what is often portrayed as Christianity on here. Are you referring to that, Christianity as a whole, or neither?
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Seperates
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Posts: 14622
Founded: Sep 03, 2009
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Postby Seperates » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:12 pm

Veladio wrote:
Scrooge Mc Duck Company wrote:
Ok you now what... thats....annoying :p . Every time you win an argument with a believer (which happens almost always), he starts like: "Ohh you shouldn't have talked like that...." and staff. I'm tired of this. :?

Learn to discuss and accept the fact that you can't have always right. And learn to stand on your feet and face the truth!

Jeez........ :rofl:


...sorry but just because someone has different beliefs than you does not mean you can ridicule them for it.

You're right. But it does give me right to ridicule bad ideas. If you don't like your beliefs being made fun of, perhaps you shouldn't hold such funny beliefs?
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

"The most important fact about us: that we are greater than the institutions and cultures we build."--Roberto Mangabeira Unger

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Condunum
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Posts: 26273
Founded: Apr 26, 2011
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Postby Condunum » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:13 pm

Seperates wrote:
Veladio wrote:
...sorry but just because someone has different beliefs than you does not mean you can ridicule them for it.

You're right. But it does give me right to ridicule bad ideas. If you don't like your beliefs being made fun of, perhaps you shouldn't hold such funny beliefs?

If you blindly ridicule someone's belief simply because you think it's silly, it's intolerance.
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Seperates
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Posts: 14622
Founded: Sep 03, 2009
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Postby Seperates » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:14 pm

Condunum wrote:
Seperates wrote:I tolerate people, but I do not tolerate bad ideas. There is a distinct difference.

The majority of Christians don't follow Evangelical Protestantism, which is what is often portrayed as Christianity on here. Are you referring to that, Christianity as a whole, or neither?

Christianity as a whole is a terrible idea based on moral and logical fallacies. It is a terribly complicated, completely ineffecient, bad, idea.

Then again, so is all of religion.
Last edited by Seperates on Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

"The most important fact about us: that we are greater than the institutions and cultures we build."--Roberto Mangabeira Unger

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Seperates
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Posts: 14622
Founded: Sep 03, 2009
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Postby Seperates » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:14 pm

Condunum wrote:
Seperates wrote:You're right. But it does give me right to ridicule bad ideas. If you don't like your beliefs being made fun of, perhaps you shouldn't hold such funny beliefs?

If you blindly ridicule someone's belief simply because you think it's silly, it's intolerance.

What if I can time and again PROVE that it is silly?
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

"The most important fact about us: that we are greater than the institutions and cultures we build."--Roberto Mangabeira Unger

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Veladio
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Posts: 1360
Founded: Jul 05, 2012
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Postby Veladio » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:17 pm

Seperates wrote:
Veladio wrote:
...sorry but just because someone has different beliefs than you does not mean you can ridicule them for it.

You're right. But it does give me right to ridicule bad ideas. If you don't like your beliefs being made fun of, perhaps you shouldn't hold such funny beliefs?

1. Not a Christian.
2. "And learn to stand on your feet and face the truth!" This seems more or less like you are going after the individual, since you are saying he cant stand on his feet.
3. Just saying, you can make fun of my beliefs, but for gods' sakes be a little more respectful to the people who hold them.
I am a Wiccan. Do not assume I am an Atheist in Religion threads simply because I support complete Secularization of Government Entities.

Social Libertarian (could care less about Economics, there are people who are more educated at it, so it is a waste of time to try and debate me on it.). As stated above I am a Wiccan, and I find solidarity with the Egyptian Deities. I support government secularization as well as complete freedom of religion, as I believe that to truly be secular, the state must respect all beliefs, and favor none. And I recently enlisted in the United States Navy.

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Condunum
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Founded: Apr 26, 2011
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Postby Condunum » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:17 pm

Seperates wrote:
Condunum wrote:If you blindly ridicule someone's belief simply because you think it's silly, it's intolerance.

What if I can time and again PROVE that it is silly?

That really doesn't change much. If it doesn't impede progress (and mainstream christianity rarely, if ever, does), what need is there to prove it "silly" other than some sort of self-gratification?
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Scrooge Mc Duck Company
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Posts: 100
Founded: May 14, 2012
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Postby Scrooge Mc Duck Company » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:18 pm

Holding a belief like that in 21 century is a direct insult to those who worked hard in some half-dark laboratories. Hence the attitude. Just because you hold a book-fairytail doesn't mean that you can judge everything.

Anyway I don't want to have a full discussion about it cause I was doing this in the age of 15. It is unimportant to me anymore.
Scrooge: And what can I do for you two gentlemen?
Collector for the Poor: Sir, we are collecting funds for the indigent and destitute.
Scrooge: For the what?
Collector for the Poor: We're collecting for the poor.
Scrooge: Oh. Aha. Well um, you realize if you give money to the poor, they won't be poor anymore, will they?
Collector for the Poor: Well, I..
Scrooge: And if they're not poor anymore, then you won't have to raise money for them anymore.
Collector for the Poor: Well, I suppose...
Scrooge: And if you don't have to raise money for them anymore, then you'd be out of a job. Oh please, gentlemen, don't ask me to put you out of a job. Not on Christmas Eve.
Collector for the Poor: Oh, we wouldn't do that, Mr. Scrooge.
Scrooge: Well then, I suggest you give this to the poor and be gone.

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Condunum
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Founded: Apr 26, 2011
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Postby Condunum » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:19 pm

Scrooge Mc Duck Company wrote:Holding a belief like that in 21 century is a direct insult to those who worked hard in some half-dark laboratories. Hence the attitude. Just because you hold a book-fairytail doesn't mean that you can judge everything.

Anyway I don't want to have a full discussion about it cause I was doing this in the age of 15. It is unimportant to me anymore.

Holding a belief in the 21st century is normal. I hold the belief that there is a computer sitting in front of me.
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Veladio
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Founded: Jul 05, 2012
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Postby Veladio » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:20 pm

Scrooge Mc Duck Company wrote:Holding a belief like that in 21 century is a direct insult to those who worked hard in some half-dark laboratories. Hence the attitude. Just because you hold a book-fairytail doesn't mean that you can judge everything.

Anyway I don't want to have a full discussion about it cause I was doing this in the age of 15. It is unimportant to me anymore.

And just because you don't hold that belief means YOU CAN judge everything? I give science credit when it is due, but I don't go around to every Christian/Jew/etc. and laugh at their beliefs...that's just very rude.
Last edited by Veladio on Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am a Wiccan. Do not assume I am an Atheist in Religion threads simply because I support complete Secularization of Government Entities.

Social Libertarian (could care less about Economics, there are people who are more educated at it, so it is a waste of time to try and debate me on it.). As stated above I am a Wiccan, and I find solidarity with the Egyptian Deities. I support government secularization as well as complete freedom of religion, as I believe that to truly be secular, the state must respect all beliefs, and favor none. And I recently enlisted in the United States Navy.

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The Merchant Republics
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Posts: 8503
Founded: Oct 25, 2010
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Postby The Merchant Republics » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:25 pm

Scrooge Mc Duck Company wrote:I insist sir (as I always do):



And:


Just saying........... :roll:


Perhaps I'm not doing any good for arguing, it seems you're very much committed to your beliefs and the idea that mine are ridiculous.

Nonetheless, look at the vastness of the universe and explain to me how we can be the only intelligent life in it?

That is to say, if you would indulge me in flipping your argument on it's head. Supposing the universe were created with us as nothing special in it. Why then have we not found a single trace of life that did not originate on this planet?

The sheer scale, akin to the idea that some 100^100 gamblers roll their dice 100 times and only a single one rolls 1 despite billions of years.


I don't love to use the Fermi paradox, because I don't really think alien life and Christianity are mutually exclusive, but it poses serious questions to the person who presupposes an uncaused, unpurposed universe.

EDIT: To make this more thread applicable.

Let me generalize the question. Suppose Earth was found to be the only planet in the entire universe that held life, how would it change your beliefs about the universe?
Last edited by The Merchant Republics on Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Your Resident Gentleman and Libertarian; presently living in the People's Republic of China, which is if anyone from the Party asks "The Best and Also Only China".
Christian Libertarian Autarchist: like an Anarchist but with more "Aut".
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Economic: Left/Right (7.55)
We are the premiere of civilization, the beacon of liberty, the font of prosperity and the ever illuminating light of culture in this hellish universe.
In short: Elitist Wicked Cultured Free Market Anarchists living in a Diesel-Deco World.

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Seperates
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Posts: 14622
Founded: Sep 03, 2009
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Postby Seperates » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:26 pm

Condunum wrote:
Seperates wrote:What if I can time and again PROVE that it is silly?

That really doesn't change much. If it doesn't impede progress (and mainstream christianity rarely, if ever, does), what need is there to prove it "silly" other than some sort of self-gratification?

What are you talking about? Have you seen the state of the U.S. Republican and Democratic Parties? Political use of christianity activly impedes onto the social progress and the policy of our government. The entire false idea of "trickle-down theory" that the Republicans base their tax models off of assumes that the rich are 'good philanthropic Christians', which is not true in practice. It promotes ill creation of ideas, gullibility and dampens discourse. It is only when religion ceases being moralistic and becomes secular that it actually does good, with secular colleges and aid-giving agencies. But the fact of the matter is that by that time it is already a secular organization, so why not just drop the pre-tense of religion altogether?
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

"The most important fact about us: that we are greater than the institutions and cultures we build."--Roberto Mangabeira Unger

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Seperates
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14622
Founded: Sep 03, 2009
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Postby Seperates » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:29 pm

The Merchant Republics wrote:
Scrooge Mc Duck Company wrote:I insist sir (as I always do):



And:


Just saying........... :roll:


Perhaps I'm not doing any good for arguing, it seems you're very much committed to your beliefs and the idea that mine are ridiculous.

Nonetheless, look at the vastness of the universe and explain to me how we can be the only intelligent life in it?

That is to say, if you would indulge me in flipping your argument on it's head. Supposing the universe were created with us as nothing special in it. Why then have we not found a single trace of life that did not originate on this planet?

The sheer scale, akin to the idea that some 100^100 gamblers roll their dice 100 times and only a single one rolls 1 despite billions of years.


I don't love to use the Fermi paradox, because I don't really think alien life and Christianity are mutually exclusive, but it poses serious questions to the person who presupposes an uncaused, unpurposed universe.

EDIT: To make this more thread applicable.

Let me generalize the question. Suppose Earth was found to be the only planet in the entire universe that held life, how would it change your beliefs about the universe?

But we have found simple life elsewhere, and have found many other planets with the potential for complex life forms. So your hypothetical question is irrelevent.
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

"The most important fact about us: that we are greater than the institutions and cultures we build."--Roberto Mangabeira Unger

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Veladio
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1360
Founded: Jul 05, 2012
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Postby Veladio » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:29 pm

Seperates wrote:
Condunum wrote:That really doesn't change much. If it doesn't impede progress (and mainstream christianity rarely, if ever, does), what need is there to prove it "silly" other than some sort of self-gratification?

What are you talking about? Have you seen the state of the U.S. Republican and Democratic Parties? Political use of christianity activly impedes onto the social progress and the policy of our government. The entire false idea of "trickle-down theory" that the Republicans base their tax models off of assumes that the rich are 'good philanthropic Christians', which is not true in practice. It promotes ill creation of ideas, gullibility and dampens discourse. It is only when religion ceases being moralistic and becomes secular that it actually does good, with secular colleges and aid-giving agencies. But the fact of the matter is that by that time it is already a secular organization, so why not just drop the pre-tense of religion altogether?

Political use...POLITICAL use. I don't agree that any public policy should be determined by any religion. I also happen to know many secular Christians. Secularism and Religion are not mutually exclusive, only under certain circumstances. I am VERY secular when it comes to politics, however I am also a VERY religious Wiccan. Case in point, I don't force my beliefs on others...it isn't my place.
I am a Wiccan. Do not assume I am an Atheist in Religion threads simply because I support complete Secularization of Government Entities.

Social Libertarian (could care less about Economics, there are people who are more educated at it, so it is a waste of time to try and debate me on it.). As stated above I am a Wiccan, and I find solidarity with the Egyptian Deities. I support government secularization as well as complete freedom of religion, as I believe that to truly be secular, the state must respect all beliefs, and favor none. And I recently enlisted in the United States Navy.

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Scrooge Mc Duck Company
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 100
Founded: May 14, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Scrooge Mc Duck Company » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:29 pm

You 're pushing me to start stating the obvious.... well:

The thing is that world unfortunatly was built in ideas that are irrational and not sane. In utopias. It seems that utopias are usefull to encourage the population. Ideas such us Christianity based around an uneducated jewish woodchopper had to wait 1500 years before we start to challenge them as Gustave le Bon said. One of the things that proves why we are so immature as beings. If we don't restrain religion, we cant hope of TRUE spiritual development.

Religion of love...... how many million people has Christianity killed? :eyebrow:
Scrooge: And what can I do for you two gentlemen?
Collector for the Poor: Sir, we are collecting funds for the indigent and destitute.
Scrooge: For the what?
Collector for the Poor: We're collecting for the poor.
Scrooge: Oh. Aha. Well um, you realize if you give money to the poor, they won't be poor anymore, will they?
Collector for the Poor: Well, I..
Scrooge: And if they're not poor anymore, then you won't have to raise money for them anymore.
Collector for the Poor: Well, I suppose...
Scrooge: And if you don't have to raise money for them anymore, then you'd be out of a job. Oh please, gentlemen, don't ask me to put you out of a job. Not on Christmas Eve.
Collector for the Poor: Oh, we wouldn't do that, Mr. Scrooge.
Scrooge: Well then, I suggest you give this to the poor and be gone.

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