All Y’all Atheists.

[Greater Shoggothia]

You see, this is the problem Orson:
The central premise of your argument was just directly refuted, and you don't have the courage to admit it. Instead you obfuscate and act as though there is some interpretation of words in which this did not just happen.

How are we supposed to reason with someone who behaves so dishonestly?

Dishonestly? What are you talking about? Besides, I rephrased it. i forgot what I had said earlier and thought he was talking about something else. Anyway, all I know is to have faith and believe in God

Knowledge is demonstrable. If you can't show it, you don't know it, and you shouldn't say that you do.

Also, your ignorance of other religions does not change the fact that their holy books do exist, and that they refute your premise directly.

[The Orson Empire]

No, its not. It's based on the Bible. And we don't know how it happened because we weren't alive! The Bible presents the order of things in a simple way. Everything doesn't have to be literal.

Your Bible does not correctly explain a single iota. I am not content with simplicity. We can, and all but have figured out how it happened. What you are saying is that even though I was cocieved out of a sperm and an egg, and my father was concieved out of a sperm and an egg, I cannot logically assume that my great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather was concieved of a sperm and an egg, because I wasn't there.

Such ignorance defies the scientific principles that have brought you the computer at which you sit. It is sheer parasitic ignorance.

I know science, alright? to be honest, I love science. But religion comes first. And do not call me ignorant, because I am intelligent

[Seperates]

The simple fact is that you can't have light before stars (including the sun). You just can't. The Great Expansion itself created no light. It created a hell of alot of energy, but no actual light as we would percieve it.

Oh please. Light is simply created by the release of a photon. That doesn't require a star.

Then why didn't they fucking say that in the Bible?

Notice I said "Light AS WE WOULD PERCIEVE IT" would not exist. Sure, light would enter the iris, but with nothing to reflect it off of, there would still be nothing to see.

[Genivaria]

Your Bible does not correctly explain a single iota. I am not content with simplicity. We can, and all but have figured out how it happened. What you are saying is that even though I was cocieved out of a sperm and an egg, and my father was concieved out of a sperm and an egg, I cannot logically assume that my great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather was concieved of a sperm and an egg, because I wasn't there.

Such ignorance defies the scientific principles that have brought you the computer at which you sit. It is sheer parasitic ignorance.

I know science, alright? to be honest, I love science. But religion comes first. And do not call me ignorant, because I am intelligent

Faith is just gullibility wrapped in a pretty package, and gullibility is never a virtue.

[Madoka Kaname]

Which is ignorance if you are to interpret science liberally like that.

No. Ignorance is lack of knowledge. There are some things for which we must have proof, because there's no knowledge (or perhaps, no way of knowing anything) on the topic.

Take the Higgs Boson. Until recently, it would be fair to say that most scientists believed/had faith that such a boson existed. Until very recently, there was nothing concrete to support the idea of a Boson, only mathematical support (but that's hardly a guarantee of anything). In fact, we found very little evidence for the Higgs Boson initially, IIRC.

Mathematical support is evidence actually. Have mathematical support (assuming you have proofs done etc.) and your theory will be accepted. Were such things be grounded on faith, we would have a lot of emotional dramas whenever someone got their theory replaced.

Tis can't rightfully be called faith when the very thing you're trying to justify exist is grounded on something natural (e.g mathematics). Believing that, say, the first man had a first wife or that we have another ancestor called Lilith is different since your justification is anything but natural.

Having faith isn't a bad thing. Faith in a shared community is what makes a nation for instance.

That's nice, but I'm talking about your liberal interpretation of science. You cannot just fill in gaps like that and call it science. How easy it would be for me to obtain a physics degree if that was possible.

[Zanzibarnia]

Then why not just do exactly that and throw out the Old Testament instead of trying to defend its fundamental aspects with untenable reasoning?

I'm not trying to defend it. Seperates made a false statement, and I called him on it. See here. Not all light obviously comes from the Sun.

Now, you then made a false statement here, and I called you on it.

Now stop getting so aggressive.

Point taken.

Although I don't really see how an honest question -- even if I was mistaken in asking it -- could be construed as being aggressive. I could easily tell you to stop being so defensive.

But if I could point something out without being seen as aggressive, since it was Genesis being called into question in the first place, ie. how there could be light before the sun, your explanation of stars being different ages is irrelevant, since, according to Genesis, the stars and sun were created the same day.

[Gordonisia]

Dishonestly? What are you talking about? Besides, I rephrased it. i forgot what I had said earlier and thought he was talking about something else. Anyway, all I know is to have faith and believe in God

Knowledge is demonstrable. If you can't show it, you don't know it, and you shouldn't say that you do.

Truth is, nobody has the answers. That's the whole point of faith

[The Orson Empire]

Oh please. Light is simply created by the release of a photon. That doesn't require a star.

Then why didn't they fucking say that in the Bible?

Notice I said "Light AS WE WOULD PERCIEVE IT" would not exist. Sure, light would enter the iris, but with nothing to reflect it off of, there would still be nothing to see.

Because back when it was written they didn't know what a photon was! Not everything has to be literal. You just have to believe

[Hallistar]

Your Bible does not correctly explain a single iota. I am not content with simplicity. We can, and all but have figured out how it happened. What you are saying is that even though I was cocieved out of a sperm and an egg, and my father was concieved out of a sperm and an egg, I cannot logically assume that my great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather was concieved of a sperm and an egg, because I wasn't there.

Such ignorance defies the scientific principles that have brought you the computer at which you sit. It is sheer parasitic ignorance.

I know science, alright? to be honest, I love science. But religion comes first. And do not call me ignorant, because I am intelligent

That is the reason why religion and science have clashed historically, because people would keep putting religion first. That is also the reason I abstained from active belief in the unfalsifiable, that way I am neutral and put science's discoveries first.

[The Orson Empire]

I know science, alright? to be honest, I love science. But religion comes first. And do not call me ignorant, because I am intelligent

Faith is just gullibility wrapped in a pretty package, and gullibility is never a virtue.

I don't see what is so bad about having Faith. It's not hurting anyone

[Caninope]

Shouldn't the OT still be in force?

No. You see, the OT laws were given to the nation of Israel, not Christians. Seeing how I'm a Gentile, they wouldn't apply to me anyways. However, there's also the issue that whenever Jesus redeemed the world through his sacrifice, Christians believed that he broke the old covenant to form a new covenant with everyone (not just Jews).

Here's a general overview, and a few verses may be found here.

[The Orson Empire]

I know science, alright? to be honest, I love science. But religion comes first. And do not call me ignorant, because I am intelligent

That is the reason why religion and science have clashed historically, because people would keep putting religion first. That is also the reason I abstained from active belief in the unfalsifiable, that way I am neutral and put science's discoveries first.

I refuse to loose faith in God. That is why I always put religion first, science second.

[Silent Majority]

Knowledge is demonstrable. If you can't show it, you don't know it, and you shouldn't say that you do.

Truth is, nobody has the answers. That's the whole point of faith

So when you don't have the answer for something, you're saying we should stop looking?


Also, obligatory meme:

[Seperates]

Your Bible does not correctly explain a single iota. I am not content with simplicity. We can, and all but have figured out how it happened. What you are saying is that even though I was cocieved out of a sperm and an egg, and my father was concieved out of a sperm and an egg, I cannot logically assume that my great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather was concieved of a sperm and an egg, because I wasn't there.

Such ignorance defies the scientific principles that have brought you the computer at which you sit. It is sheer parasitic ignorance.

I know science, alright? to be honest, I love science. But religion comes first. And do not call me ignorant, because I am intelligent

No you don't. Scienctific methodology has accelerated our progress and knowledge ten-fold while religion is still sitting on it's laurals spinning around in circles. If you knew science, then you would know the principles of the scientific method, which cry out in indignation at your method of logic and application of it. If you knew science, you would realize that your views are inconsistent with reality, and by Jove, you would change them.

[Veladio]

Then why didn't they fucking say that in the Bible?

Notice I said "Light AS WE WOULD PERCIEVE IT" would not exist. Sure, light would enter the iris, but with nothing to reflect it off of, there would still be nothing to see.

Because back when it was written they didn't know what a photon was! Not everything has to be literal. You just have to believe

You never answered my questioned about the other holy books.

[Greater Shoggothia]

Knowledge is demonstrable. If you can't show it, you don't know it, and you shouldn't say that you do.

Truth is, nobody has the answers. That's the whole point of faith

Thanks Mavorpen.

[Divair]

Faith is just gullibility wrapped in a pretty package, and gullibility is never a virtue.

I don't see what is so bad about having Faith. It's not hurting anyone

About that..
http://i.imgur.com/mpQA0.jpg
Far larger than 900 pixels, so you'll have to open it in another tab.

[The Orson Empire]

Shouldn't the OT still be in force?

No. You see, the OT laws were given to the nation of Israel, not Christians. Seeing how I'm a Gentile, they wouldn't apply to me anyways. However, there's also the issue that whenever Jesus redeemed the world through his sacrifice, Christians believed that he broke the old covenant to form a new covenant with everyone (not just Jews).

Here's a general overview, and a few verses may be found here.

He's right again. When Jesus came and died for us, he became our priests, so we didn't have to make offerings or anything anymore. We can just pray to him directly

[Orcoa]

Faith is just gullibility wrapped in a pretty package, and gullibility is never a virtue.

I don't see what is so bad about having Faith. It's not hurting anyone

Faith can be a wonderful thing...but it must not lead to Blind Faith and must be done with care. When there is Blind Faith and it over shadows man's natural reasoning...well we get things like the Witch Burnings and other such things.

[Seperates]

Then why didn't they fucking say that in the Bible?

Notice I said "Light AS WE WOULD PERCIEVE IT" would not exist. Sure, light would enter the iris, but with nothing to reflect it off of, there would still be nothing to see.

Because back when it was written they didn't know what a photon was! Not everything has to be literal. You just have to believe

Why not? Surely God was all-knowing? Or is he just a stubborn asshole?

[Hallistar]

That is the reason why religion and science have clashed historically, because people would keep putting religion first. That is also the reason I abstained from active belief in the unfalsifiable, that way I am neutral and put science's discoveries first.

I refuse to loose faith in God. That is why I always put religion first, science second.

You don't lose 'God' by being neutral. Infact a bunch of people believe in god but think that he has better things to do than waste time with us (aka Deists).

Lack of outward active faith in the unfalsifiable does not mean the belief in the lack thereof.

[Madoka Kaname]

You know, if you're not going to be an atheist, why worship an old boring god? Why not make up your own? Your own praying rituals, your own temple, etc.

[Gordonisia]

Truth is, nobody has the answers. That's the whole point of faith

Thanks Mavorpen.

Oh please, science will never be able to provide all of the answers, and you're kidding yourself if you think it will. Faith isn't "scientific ignorance", it's simply another way of searching for truth.

[Genivaria]

Faith is just gullibility wrapped in a pretty package, and gullibility is never a virtue.

I don't see what is so bad about having Faith. It's not hurting anyone

Au Contaire Monsieur.
Have you read a history book? Do you watch the news? Or better yet, just take a gander at that link Divair posted.
http://i.imgur.com/mpQA0.jpg

[Divair]

You know, if you're not going to be an atheist, why worship an old boring god? Why not make up your own? Your own praying rituals, your own temple, etc.

If I wasn't an atheist, I'd be a Norse Pagan. The most liberal and friendly religion ever. Also Valhalla = win.