All Y’all Atheists.

[Seperates]

Then why not just do exactly that and throw out the Old Testament instead of trying to defend its fundamental aspects with untenable reasoning?

I'm not trying to defend it. Seperates made a false statement, and I called him on it. See here. Not all light obviously comes from the Sun.

Now, you then made a false statement here, and I called you on it.

Now stop getting so aggressive.

Stellar light comes from stellar objects. Without stellar objects you cannot have stellar light. i.e. you are wrong.

EDIT: And for a repost.
Light comes from the sun and other stars, or electromagnetic currents and lightbulbs... I mean really. I guess you could argue that the energy for the nuclear fission and fusion of hydrogen and helium, which creates stellar light, came from the Great Expansion (there being no oxygen to create a meduim for an explosion, it was a lawyer's nickname, why physicists still use it is beyond me) but you would be grasping for straws.

The simple fact is that you can't have light before stars (including the sun). You just can't. The Great Expansion itself created no light. It created a hell of alot of energy, but no actual light as we would percieve it. In essence the light and the dark would be one in the same.

Your religion and faith are based on the illogies of priests and shepards who didn't understand even the most basic of scientific principles and observation. You may be content in your faith, but that means that you are content with ignorance.

[Venus Orange]

You "truly believe" lies.

No, I believe the truth. Why would anyone even spend time contributing to the Bible if it wasn't true?

Does the same apply to the Quran, Rigveda, the Book of Mormon, Principia Discordia, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Dianetics, Zhuangzi, Book of Shadows, et cetera?

[Gordonisia]

No, I believe the truth. Why would anyone even spend time contributing to the Bible if it wasn't true?

Exactly. Why would the Great Lord Xthulu bother warning us mortals of the Benuzians if it wasn't true?

Atheists who just don't understand that boggle my mind. Science hasn't ruled out his existence, isn't that the point of having faith in his book?

this joke was funnier a few posts ago... Got any jokes about a half-eagle half-fish Overlord of Destruction?
Those are my favorite

[Seperates]

No, it's to convince ourselves that we're right, even when we're wrong.

Faith is evidence not seen and the substance of all things hoped for. In order to have faith, you must have hope and pray.

How does one discern between faith and gullibility?

[The Orson Empire]

I'm not sure where the light came from. I'd assume the Big Bang. It's as good a guess as any other.

And like I said, I don't need the exact order of creation to be perfect in Genesis. My faith doesn't require that I take every word of the Bible as literal as possible. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, I can basically through out the Old Testament. My religion and my faith in God requires that I follow Christ's teachings, and accept him as my redeemer and savior.

Light comes from the sun and other stars, or electromagnetic currents and lightbulbs... I mean really. I guess you could argue that the energy for the nuclear fission and fusion of hydrogen and helium, which creates stellar light, came from the Great Expansion (there being no oxygen to create a meduim for an explosion, it was a lawyer's nickname, why physicists still use it is beyond me) but you would be grasping for straws.

The simple fact is that you can't have light before stars (including the sun). You just can't. The Great Expansion itself created no light. It created a hell of alot of energy, but no actual light as we would percieve it. In essence the light and the dark would be one in the same.

Your religion and faith are based on the illogies of priests and shepards who didn't understand even the most basic of scientific principles and observation. You may be content in your faith, but that means that you are content with ignorance.

No, its not. It's based on the Bible. And we don't know how it happened because we weren't alive! The Bible presents the order of things in a simple way. Everything doesn't have to be literal.

[The Ottish Empire]

Well, I'm from a rural area in Virginia, so my lack of faith is often looked down upon. Most people tend to either allow me to live my life the way I want, some even ask me about it to try and understand my reasoning, but there's also the select few fanatical bible-thumpers that try their absolute hardest trying to convince me that Jesus is my savior, and that I should rely on the good ole' book.

[The Orson Empire]

No, I believe the truth. Why would anyone even spend time contributing to the Bible if it wasn't true?

Does the same apply to the Quran, Rigveda, the Book of Mormon, Principia Discordia, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Dianetics, Zhuangzi, Book of Shadows, et cetera?

In my opinion, no it doesn't. I'm not supposed to believe in anything else but Christianity

[Caninope]

The point of faith is to fill the void that cannot be filled by proof.

Which is ignorance if you are to interpret science liberally like that.

No. Ignorance is lack of knowledge. There are some things for which we must have proof, because there's no knowledge (or perhaps, no way of knowing anything) on the topic.

Take the Higgs Boson. Until recently, it would be fair to say that most scientists believed/had faith that such a boson existed. Until very recently, there was nothing concrete to support the idea of a Boson, only mathematical support (but that's hardly a guarantee of anything). In fact, we found very little evidence for the Higgs Boson initially, IIRC.

Having faith isn't a bad thing. Faith in a shared community is what makes a nation for instance.

[Divair]

Faith is evidence not seen and the substance of all things hoped for. In order to have faith, you must have hope and pray.

How does one discern between faith and gullibility?

Answer: You don't! If someone finds faith a reliable way to base their 'logic' on, how can you hope to convince them otherwise using logic and evidence? That's why I prefer watching stuff like this. Far funnier and more relaxing.

[Venus Orange]

Does the same apply to the Quran, Rigveda, the Book of Mormon, Principia Discordia, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Dianetics, Zhuangzi, Book of Shadows, et cetera?

In my opinion, no it doesn't. I'm not supposed to believe in anything else but Christianity

[Greater Shoggothia]

Well, I'm from a rural area in Virginia, so my lack of faith is often looked down upon. Most people tend to either allow me to live my life the way I want, some even ask me about it to try and understand my reasoning, but there's also the select few fanatical bible-thumpers that try their absolute hardest trying to convince me that Jesus is my savior, and that I should rely on the good ole' book.

Hell, I rely on it.

It has never failed to be of great use to me when arguing with a Christian.

[Gordonisia]

Light comes from the sun and other stars, or electromagnetic currents and lightbulbs... I mean really. I guess you could argue that the energy for the nuclear fission and fusion of hydrogen and helium, which creates stellar light, came from the Great Expansion (there being no oxygen to create a meduim for an explosion, it was a lawyer's nickname, why physicists still use it is beyond me) but you would be grasping for straws.

The simple fact is that you can't have light before stars (including the sun). You just can't. The Great Expansion itself created no light. It created a hell of alot of energy, but no actual light as we would percieve it. In essence the light and the dark would be one in the same.

Your religion and faith are based on the illogies of priests and shepards who didn't understand even the most basic of scientific principles and observation. You may be content in your faith, but that means that you are content with ignorance.

No, its not. It's based on the Bible. And we don't know how it happened because we weren't alive! The Bible presents the order of things in a simple way. Everything doesn't have to be literal.

I agree. People seem to think that all Christians are of the "the Bible is the literal Word of Gor" variety, and it drives me nuts. I prefer to look at the Bible as a collection of metaphors (e.g. the first humans weren't literally told to eat fruit by a talking snake)

[Genivaria]

Does the same apply to the Quran, Rigveda, the Book of Mormon, Principia Discordia, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Dianetics, Zhuangzi, Book of Shadows, et cetera?

In my opinion, no it doesn't. I'm not supposed to believe in anything else but Christianity

^And NOTHING in the above statement sounds wrong to you?

[Veladio]

Does the same apply to the Quran, Rigveda, the Book of Mormon, Principia Discordia, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Dianetics, Zhuangzi, Book of Shadows, et cetera?

In my opinion, no it doesn't. I'm not supposed to believe in anything else but Christianity

But then why would they spend time on them? Or are they constructs of Satan?

[The Orson Empire]

In my opinion, no it doesn't. I'm not supposed to believe in anything else but Christianity

I don't see how that solves it. Let me rephrase that. Most of that stuff I've never even heard of

[Greater Shoggothia]

Does the same apply to the Quran, Rigveda, the Book of Mormon, Principia Discordia, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Dianetics, Zhuangzi, Book of Shadows, et cetera?

In my opinion, no it doesn't. I'm not supposed to believe in anything else but Christianity

You see, this is the problem Orson:
The central premise of your argument was just directly refuted, and you don't have the courage to admit it. Instead you obfuscate and act as though there is some interpretation of words in which this did not just happen.

How are we supposed to reason with someone who behaves so dishonestly?

[Hallistar]

So they were created at the same time then?

After the earth?

So where did the light come from?

lrn2consistency

I'm not sure where the light came from. I'd assume the Big Bang. It's as good a guess as any other.

And like I said, I don't need the exact order of creation to be perfect in Genesis. My faith doesn't require that I take every word of the Bible as literal as possible. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, I can basically through out the Old Testament. My religion and my faith in God requires that I follow Christ's teachings, and accept him as my redeemer and savior.

Shouldn't the OT still be in force?

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.


Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;


Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.[/b]

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

2nd Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

2nd Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2nd Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

[The Orson Empire]

In my opinion, no it doesn't. I'm not supposed to believe in anything else but Christianity

^And NOTHING in the above statement sounds wrong to you?

I rephrased it. Forgot what I had said

[Caninope]

The simple fact is that you can't have light before stars (including the sun). You just can't. The Great Expansion itself created no light. It created a hell of alot of energy, but no actual light as we would percieve it.

Oh please. Light is simply created by the release of a photon. That doesn't require a star.

[Hallistar]

No, its not. It's based on the Bible. And we don't know how it happened because we weren't alive! The Bible presents the order of things in a simple way. Everything doesn't have to be literal.

I agree. People seem to think that all Christians are of the "the Bible is the literal Word of Gor" variety, and it drives me nuts. I prefer to look at the Bible as a collection of metaphors (e.g. the first humans weren't literally told to eat fruit by a talking snake)

So how do you know which parts are literal and which are metaphors?

[Orcoa]

In my opinion, no it doesn't. I'm not supposed to believe in anything else but Christianity

But then why would they spend time on them? Or are they constructs of Satan?

Of course!

It makes sense now! All the other Religions are lies made by the great Satan and Cthulhu is the one true god!

L'a Cthulhu!

[Divair]

But then why would they spend time on them? Or are they constructs of Satan?

Of course!

It makes sense now! All the other Religions are lies made by the great Satan and Cthulhu is the one true god!

L'a Cthulhu!

How dare you turn your back on Odin and Thor?

[Seperates]

Light comes from the sun and other stars, or electromagnetic currents and lightbulbs... I mean really. I guess you could argue that the energy for the nuclear fission and fusion of hydrogen and helium, which creates stellar light, came from the Great Expansion (there being no oxygen to create a meduim for an explosion, it was a lawyer's nickname, why physicists still use it is beyond me) but you would be grasping for straws.

The simple fact is that you can't have light before stars (including the sun). You just can't. The Great Expansion itself created no light. It created a hell of alot of energy, but no actual light as we would percieve it. In essence the light and the dark would be one in the same.

Your religion and faith are based on the illogies of priests and shepards who didn't understand even the most basic of scientific principles and observation. You may be content in your faith, but that means that you are content with ignorance.

No, its not. It's based on the Bible. And we don't know how it happened because we weren't alive! The Bible presents the order of things in a simple way. Everything doesn't have to be literal.

Your Bible does not correctly explain a single iota. I am not content with simplicity. We can, and all but have figured out how it happened. What you are saying is that even though I was cocieved out of a sperm and an egg, and my father was concieved out of a sperm and an egg, I cannot logically assume that my great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather was concieved of a sperm and an egg, because I wasn't there.

Such ignorance defies the scientific principles that have brought you the computer at which you sit. It is sheer parasitic ignorance.

[The Orson Empire]

In my opinion, no it doesn't. I'm not supposed to believe in anything else but Christianity

You see, this is the problem Orson:
The central premise of your argument was just directly refuted, and you don't have the courage to admit it. Instead you obfuscate and act as though there is some interpretation of words in which this did not just happen.

How are we supposed to reason with someone who behaves so dishonestly?

Dishonestly? What are you talking about? Besides, I rephrased it. i forgot what I had said earlier and thought he was talking about something else. Anyway, all I know is to have faith and believe in God

[Orcoa]

Of course!

It makes sense now! All the other Religions are lies made by the great Satan and Cthulhu is the one true god!

L'a Cthulhu!

How dare you turn your back on Odin and Thor?

Sorry, the Tentacle Hentai god is a better god then those two