Fast and Furious

[Ethel mermania]

Until obama invoked executive privlige, this was only about holder.

Much like watergate. This issue was "what the top of the justice dept knew and when they knew it". Not the stupidity of the operation itself.

Holder lied to congress about when he and his staff learned about it, and what they did about it when they found out. The documents issa are going after supposedly prove holder knew and approved the program long before the agent was killed. Holder said he learned after, and they killed the program, when he found out about it.

This is what is called contempt of congress, and obstruction of justice. Holder should have admitted the fuck up from the get go, and taken the beating and resigned. Instead, to save his ass, he lied to congress and resisted giving the documents to the committee. Now we have entered the realm of the criminal. Which is a bad thing for an AG, to be.

Obama either out of loyalty to holder, or election considerations exerts executive privlige. What makes it very fishy, is that EP, is only for presidential decision making, not that of cabinet officials.

And you all say this does not look like nixon II.

[AiliailiA]

Until obama invoked executive privlige, this was only about holder.

Much like watergate. This issue was "what the top of the justice dept knew and when they knew it". Not the stupidity of the operation itself.

Holder lied to congress about when he and his staff learned about it, and what they did about it when they found out. The documents issa are going after supposedly prove holder knew and approved the program long before the agent was killed. Holder said he learned after, and they killed the program, when he found out about it.

This is what is called contempt of congress, and obstruction of justice. Holder should have admitted the fuck up from the get go, and taken the beating and resigned. Instead, to save his ass, he lied to congress and resisted giving the documents to the committee. Now we have entered the realm of the criminal. Which is a bad thing for an AG, to be.

Obama either out of loyalty to holder, or election considerations exerts executive privlige. What makes it very fishy, is that EP, is only for presidential decision making, not that of cabinet officials.

And you all say this does not look like nixon II.

AG is an important appointment, but it really isn't the Office of the President.

Anyway what are you going to call it? Fastgate? Furiousgate?

Fafgate of course

[Aethyopea]

Until obama invoked executive privlige, this was only about holder.

Much like watergate. This issue was "what the top of the justice dept knew and when they knew it". Not the stupidity of the operation itself.

Holder lied to congress about when he and his staff learned about it, and what they did about it when they found out. The documents issa are going after supposedly prove holder knew and approved the program long before the agent was killed. Holder said he learned after, and they killed the program, when he found out about it.

This is what is called contempt of congress, and obstruction of justice. Holder should have admitted the fuck up from the get go, and taken the beating and resigned. Instead, to save his ass, he lied to congress and resisted giving the documents to the committee. Now we have entered the realm of the criminal. Which is a bad thing for an AG, to be.

Obama either out of loyalty to holder, or election considerations exerts executive privlige. What makes it very fishy, is that EP, is only for presidential decision making, not that of cabinet officials.

And you all say this does not look like nixon II.

AG is an important appointment, but it really isn't the Office of the President.

Anyway what are you going to call it? Fastgate? Furiousgate?

Fafgate of course

What about 'mategate'? It sounds nice, it's alliterative and it implies nepotism.
I bet something like 'mategate' will sell like hot cakes, even if it sound a bit blokey.

[AiliailiA]

AG is an important appointment, but it really isn't the Office of the President.

Anyway what are you going to call it? Fastgate? Furiousgate?

Fafgate of course

What about 'mategate'? It sounds nice, it's alliterative and it implies nepotism.
I bet something like 'mategate' will sell like hot cakes, even if it sound a bit blokey.

Yep. Problem with speculating like this is that someone somewhere will think that's a good idea. What starts out as a joke ends up part of the Great Stupid.

[Ashmoria]

it is so weird that there is this massive conspiracy theory running amok among congressional republicans that we know nothing about because we dont watch foxnews.

normal people think that mr isa is just being a bit of a hardass as regards mr holder and his internal memos. turns out that he is pandering to crazy people.

how were we supposed to know that?

Well, if you're in the NRA, you get American Riflemen for free. They've been talking about it since like December.

Yes, I know half of its Republican propaganda, but I read it for the articles I swear.

uhhuh. you NEEVVVERRRR look at the pictures...

they have been pushing the "fast and furious was a craven plan to do away with gun rights" conspiracy theory?

it is so hard on the NRA when the democrats arent actually doing anything about guns. they have to make shit up or people might stop paying their dues.

[Ashmoria]

Until obama invoked executive privlige, this was only about holder.

Much like watergate. This issue was "what the top of the justice dept knew and when they knew it". Not the stupidity of the operation itself.

Holder lied to congress about when he and his staff learned about it, and what they did about it when they found out. The documents issa are going after supposedly prove holder knew and approved the program long before the agent was killed. Holder said he learned after, and they killed the program, when he found out about it.

This is what is called contempt of congress, and obstruction of justice. Holder should have admitted the fuck up from the get go, and taken the beating and resigned. Instead, to save his ass, he lied to congress and resisted giving the documents to the committee. Now we have entered the realm of the criminal. Which is a bad thing for an AG, to be.

Obama either out of loyalty to holder, or election considerations exerts executive privlige. What makes it very fishy, is that EP, is only for presidential decision making, not that of cabinet officials.

And you all say this does not look like nixon II.

since nothing illegal was going on there is no reason to deny the president his executive privilege. its not nixon2. its not even bush2.

[Khadgar]

Well, if you're in the NRA, you get American Riflemen for free. They've been talking about it since like December.

Yes, I know half of its Republican propaganda, but I read it for the articles I swear. :p

uhhuh. you NEEVVVERRRR look at the pictures...

they have been pushing the "fast and furious was a craven plan to do away with gun rights" conspiracy theory?

it is so hard on the NRA when the democrats arent actually doing anything about guns. they have to make shit up or people might stop paying their dues.

The gun control debate is pretty well done, on a legislative level. When the Democrats won't step up and be demons by trying to take away guns, you just pass incredibly stupid laws to see if they'll object. Must be disappointing that they've gotten so many pro-gun laws passed.

At this point, the NRA are just trolls.

[Ashmoria]

uhhuh. you NEEVVVERRRR look at the pictures...

they have been pushing the "fast and furious was a craven plan to do away with gun rights" conspiracy theory?

it is so hard on the NRA when the democrats arent actually doing anything about guns. they have to make shit up or people might stop paying their dues.

The gun control debate is pretty well done, on a legislative level. When the Democrats won't step up and be demons by trying to take away guns, you just pass incredibly stupid laws to see if they'll object. Must be disappointing that they've gotten so many pro-gun laws passed.

At this point, the NRA are just trolls.

yeah but they are very effective trolls in the conservative community.

[Anacasppia]

The sheer absurdness of trying to impeach Obama for using his innate executive authority as the President?!

[Khadgar]

(Image)

The sheer absurdness of trying to impeach Obama for using his innate executive authority as the President?!

Ooh, maybe they'll demand executive privilege be done away with. That'd be nice.

[Wamitoria]

Until obama invoked executive privlige, this was only about holder.

Much like watergate. This issue was "what the top of the justice dept knew and when they knew it". Not the stupidity of the operation itself.

Holder lied to congress about when he and his staff learned about it, and what they did about it when they found out. The documents issa are going after supposedly prove holder knew and approved the program long before the agent was killed. Holder said he learned after, and they killed the program, when he found out about it.

This is what is called contempt of congress, and obstruction of justice. Holder should have admitted the fuck up from the get go, and taken the beating and resigned. Instead, to save his ass, he lied to congress and resisted giving the documents to the committee. Now we have entered the realm of the criminal. Which is a bad thing for an AG, to be.

Obama either out of loyalty to holder, or election considerations exerts executive privlige. What makes it very fishy, is that EP, is only for presidential decision making, not that of cabinet officials.

And you all say this does not look like nixon II.

I don't think you realize this, but no one outside of FOX has been covering this issue.

That's because it's MANUFACTURED! Obama invoked executive privilege to bait the Republicans into focusing on something other than jobs in an election year.

[Forster Keys]

Well this is confusing. Apparently this thread isn't about a chain of increasingly poor movies.

[Ethel mermania]

Until obama invoked executive privlige, this was only about holder.

Much like watergate. This issue was "what the top of the justice dept knew and when they knew it". Not the stupidity of the operation itself.

Holder lied to congress about when he and his staff learned about it, and what they did about it when they found out. The documents issa are going after supposedly prove holder knew and approved the program long before the agent was killed. Holder said he learned after, and they killed the program, when he found out about it.

This is what is called contempt of congress, and obstruction of justice. Holder should have admitted the fuck up from the get go, and taken the beating and resigned. Instead, to save his ass, he lied to congress and resisted giving the documents to the committee. Now we have entered the realm of the criminal. Which is a bad thing for an AG, to be.

Obama either out of loyalty to holder, or election considerations exerts executive privlige. What makes it very fishy, is that EP, is only for presidential decision making, not that of cabinet officials.

And you all say this does not look like nixon II.

since nothing illegal was going on there is no reason to deny the president his executive privilege. its not nixon2. its not even bush2.

inspite of the clemens verdict, lying to congress and covering up about it is still a crime. Nixon's downfall was not about the burglary, it was about the cover up.

Once obama invoked executive privilege he brings the white house into it. executive privilege only applies to presidential decisions and his staff, not cabinet officials, i admire Obama'a loyalty to his people, but now its fair game to ask what Obama' knew about the program and did he approve of it?

holder should have fallen on his sword when this broke, a nice little speech about " i did nothing wrong but i dont want to be a distraction", and this would have been all wrapped up a year ago. The fact that it is coming to ahead during the election cycle is strictly this administrations fault

[Wamitoria]

executive privilege only applies to presidential decisions and his staff, not cabinet officials, i admire Obama'a loyalty to his people

It applies to the executive as a whole.

And no, it's not a clear-cut as Watergate. There is no coverup. Obama's trolling House Republicans.

It's all a conspiracy. But it's a conspiracy to force Republicans into focusing on something other than jobs in an election year. It's why the Republicans forced the Democrats to continue delaying votes on Obamacare until 2010, all the time saying "where are the jobs."

[Greed and Death]

The gun control debate is pretty well done, on a legislative level. When the Democrats won't step up and be demons by trying to take away guns, you just pass incredibly stupid laws to see if they'll object. Must be disappointing that they've gotten so many pro-gun laws passed.

At this point, the NRA are just trolls.

yeah but they are very effective trolls in the conservative community.

their extreme views today will be consitutionaly protected tomorrow.
Accept it the culture war is lost, the people with the guns have won.

[Ethel mermania]

executive privilege only applies to presidential decisions and his staff, not cabinet officials, i admire Obama'a loyalty to his people

It applies to the executive as a whole.

And no, it's not a clear-cut as Watergate. There is no coverup. Obama's trolling House Republicans.

It's all a conspiracy. But it's a conspiracy to force Republicans into focusing on something other than jobs in an election year. It's why the Republicans forced the Democrats to continue delaying votes on Obamacare until 2010, all the time saying "where are the jobs."

they are covering up holder's lying to congress about when he found out about fast and furious, and what he did when he found out.

[Wamitoria]

It applies to the executive as a whole.

And no, it's not a clear-cut as Watergate. There is no coverup. Obama's trolling House Republicans.

It's all a conspiracy. But it's a conspiracy to force Republicans into focusing on something other than jobs in an election year. It's why the Republicans forced the Democrats to continue delaying votes on Obamacare until 2010, all the time saying "where are the jobs."

they are covering up holder's lying to congress about when he found out about fast and furious, and what he did when he found out.

Are they? What evidence do you have of this? Are you aware that Issa wanted the names of ATF informants, not information regarding the gun walking program?

[Ethel mermania]

they are covering up holder's lying to congress about when he found out about fast and furious, and what he did when he found out.

Are they? What evidence do you have of this? Are you aware that Issa wanted the names of ATF informants, not information regarding the gun walking program?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65759.html

“Top Justice Department officials, including Attorney General Holder, know more about Operation Fast and Furious than they have publicly acknowledged,” said Rep. Issa in a statement on Wednesday. “The documents this subpoena demands will provide answers to questions that Justice officials have tried to avoid since this investigation began eight months ago. It’s time we know the whole truth.”

from the same article

ssa and other Republicans have criticized Holder over what they allege are misleading statements to Congress in May 2011. During testimony to Congress at that time, Holder claimed that he had learned about the controversial operation only “over the last few weeks.” However, memos addressed to Holder mention the Fast and Furious operation as far back as July 2010

If the second paragraph is true, are you saying Holder did not commit any criminal offenses?

edit: to add the second quote and question

[Wamitoria]

Are they? What evidence do you have of this? Are you aware that Issa wanted the names of ATF informants, not information regarding the gun walking program?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65759.html

“Top Justice Department officials, including Attorney General Holder, know more about Operation Fast and Furious than they have publicly acknowledged,” said Rep. Issa in a statement on Wednesday. “The documents this subpoena demands will provide answers to questions that Justice officials have tried to avoid since this investigation began eight months ago. It’s time we know the whole truth.”

Issa's lying. The Justice Department says that they provided all materials that didn't have confidential information, like the identities of informants, in it.

[Ethel mermania]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65759.html

“Top Justice Department officials, including Attorney General Holder, know more about Operation Fast and Furious than they have publicly acknowledged,” said Rep. Issa in a statement on Wednesday. “The documents this subpoena demands will provide answers to questions that Justice officials have tried to avoid since this investigation began eight months ago. It’s time we know the whole truth.”

Issa's lying. The Justice Department says that they provided all materials that didn't have confidential information, like the identities of informants, in it.

Holder is lying. just like nixon and mitchell.

edit: i added my edit to the post above, before i saw your response, but your response was before i posted my edit.

[Wamitoria]

Issa's lying. The Justice Department says that they provided all materials that didn't have confidential information, like the identities of informants, in it.

Holder is lying. just like nixon and mitchell.

And, what evidence other than Issa's statement do you have to corroborate this?

[Ethel mermania]

Holder is lying. just like nixon and mitchell.

And, what evidence other than Issa's statement do you have to corroborate this?

whats your evidence that Issa is lying?

from the same article
Issa and other Republicans have criticized Holder over what they allege are misleading statements to Congress in May 2011. During testimony to Congress at that time, Holder claimed that he had learned about the controversial operation only “over the last few weeks.” However, memos addressed to Holder mention the Fast and Furious operation as far back as July 2010.

Holder and the DoJ have pushed back strongly on the claim that he misled Congress, writing on Friday that he can’t read every item that is sent to his office. The attorney general maintains that he did not learn about the controversial tactics used in Fast and Furious until earlier this year.
=======

Yea i dont read my email in area's i am responsible for, whats next, the dog ate it when i got home?

[Ashmoria]

Until obama invoked executive privlige, this was only about holder.

Much like watergate. This issue was "what the top of the justice dept knew and when they knew it". Not the stupidity of the operation itself.

Holder lied to congress about when he and his staff learned about it, and what they did about it when they found out. The documents issa are going after supposedly prove holder knew and approved the program long before the agent was killed. Holder said he learned after, and they killed the program, when he found out about it.

This is what is called contempt of congress, and obstruction of justice. Holder should have admitted the fuck up from the get go, and taken the beating and resigned. Instead, to save his ass, he lied to congress and resisted giving the documents to the committee. Now we have entered the realm of the criminal. Which is a bad thing for an AG, to be.

Obama either out of loyalty to holder, or election considerations exerts executive privlige. What makes it very fishy, is that EP, is only for presidential decision making, not that of cabinet officials.

And you all say this does not look like nixon II.

I don't think you realize this, but no one outside of FOX has been covering this issue.

That's because it's MANUFACTURED! Obama invoked executive privilege to bait the Republicans into focusing on something other than jobs in an election year.

oh yeah

and

it was NEVER about holder. mr isa vowed to do a new investigation every week trying to get dirt on the president. that didnt work out too well because there isnt much dirt to be found. so he (isa) has been hammering eric holder in hopes of getting bunches of emails between him and the president so that he will have something to get the president with.

holding the atty general in contempt for not defying the president's invoking of executive privilege is blatantly political. holder cant defy his boss.

and

you know its political when isa refuses to bring in the people who started the program under george bush.

[Wamitoria]

And, what evidence other than Issa's statement do you have to corroborate this?

whats your evidence that Issa is lying?

The fact that he hasn't held an impeachment vote on Holder despite continually accusing him of impeachable offenses.

[Ashmoria]

since nothing illegal was going on there is no reason to deny the president his executive privilege. its not nixon2. its not even bush2.

inspite of the clemens verdict, lying to congress and covering up about it is still a crime. Nixon's downfall was not about the burglary, it was about the cover up.

Once obama invoked executive privilege he brings the white house into it. executive privilege only applies to presidential decisions and his staff, not cabinet officials, i admire Obama'a loyalty to his people, but now its fair game to ask what Obama' knew about the program and did he approve of it?

holder should have fallen on his sword when this broke, a nice little speech about " i did nothing wrong but i dont want to be a distraction", and this would have been all wrapped up a year ago. The fact that it is coming to ahead during the election cycle is strictly this administrations fault

uhhuh

i have contempt for presidents who dont back up their man when he is involved in a witch hunt.