Fast and Furious

[Greed and Death]

Well it is not a states rights issue really it is a funding issue. Right now the Federal tops out at 15% of public education expenditures. If the Feds took over education They would have to pay 100%, there is not enough political will to do that, nor has there ever been. So really only make sense to roll the Department of education back into HHS.

Divert state taxes to federal government. Problem solved.

Can't do that Constitution does not allow the Federal govnerment to commandeer state resources.

[Blazedtown]

Divert state taxes to federal government. Problem solved.

Can't do that Constitution does not allow the Federal govnerment to commandeer state resources.

The Constitution has been screwed so many times I could drive a truck in there, parallel park and then set up a meth lab without anyone noticing. And maybe we need some revising on the whole balance of state and federal power thing.

[Greed and Death]

Can't do that Constitution does not allow the Federal govnerment to commandeer state resources.

The Constitution has been screwed so many times I could drive a truck in there, parallel park and then set up a meth lab without anyone noticing. And maybe we need some revising on the whole balance of state and federal power thing.

Of course proposed the appropriate amendments.

[Midnight Science Fiction Feature]

This entire controversy is growing extremely irritating, at least for me. Let's start with the obvious: The United States of America is having a constitutional crisis because of the death of one border patrol agent. The House Oversight Committee has voted to hold Eric Holder in contempt, because of one border patrol agent. Obama has used executive privilege, all because of one border patrol agent. People are shot every single day, but this one man is so important?

I like the blatant nationalism and chauvinism in this whole case. It's the death of an ''American''. An ''American'' has died. One American dies, and the entire country is outraged. Let's just ignore what Operation Fast and Furious was actually supposed to. We knowingly sold weapons to gun traffickers, in hopes that we could arrest cartel leaders. What do guns do? Shoot people. Who shoots people in Mexico? The cartels. We have put in place a policy for five years that has likely assisted the deaths of many Mexicans, but we'll just case that aside because an ''American'' died! Not to mention that the border agent that was killed was found dead with several other Mexican citizens. Anecdotally, I haven't found a single reference to any Mexican casualties so far.

Let's also keep in mind that it's the United State's war on drugs that's keeping the cartels in business to begin with. If the type of drugs the cartels sell were legalized in the United States, they would have no business. Their entire business would be gone in an instant, like an oil company when all the oil on Earth has been depleted. If we never had the War on Drugs, we would never need to arrest cartel leaders. And by the way, we haven't caught any cartel leaders as a result of this operation, even after five years.

So, we put in a policy that keeps cartels in business to begin with, when repealing it would stop them. Then, we knowingly sell guns to Mexico, which kill Mexican citizens. For five years, we watch those guns kill Mexicans with complete indifference, while not a single cartel leader is caught as a result. Then one day, a border patrol agent of ours is found dead, killed by the weapons we sold, and the controversy begins. Who cares about the Mexican casualties this caused? Who cares about others who died with him? Who cares about the fact that we're the reason cartels are even around? That doesn't matter: An American died!

And the only thing Fox News cares about is that Obama did something he criticized Bush for in 2007. Fuck the media.

[Wamitoria]

This entire controversy is growing extremely irritating, at least for me. Let's start with the obvious: The United States of America is having a constitutional crisis because of the death of one border patrol agent. The House Oversight Committee has voted to hold Eric Holder in contempt, because of one border patrol agent. Obama has used executive privilege, all because of one border patrol agent. People are shot every single day, but this one man is so important?

It's not about the death of a border patrol agent. It's about a conspiracy theory.

Republicans think that the Fast and Furious program is a conspiracy designed to cause so much gun violence in Mexico that the Democrats will have the ability to repeal the 2nd amendment.

I forgive you for not being able to make that logical leap, as I wasn't able to until recently.

[Midnight Science Fiction Feature]

This entire controversy is growing extremely irritating, at least for me. Let's start with the obvious: The United States of America is having a constitutional crisis because of the death of one border patrol agent. The House Oversight Committee has voted to hold Eric Holder in contempt, because of one border patrol agent. Obama has used executive privilege, all because of one border patrol agent. People are shot every single day, but this one man is so important?

It's not about the death of a border patrol agent. It's about a conspiracy theory.

Republicans think that the Fast and Furious program is a conspiracy designed to cause so much gun violence in Mexico that the Democrats will have the ability to repeal the 2nd amendment.

I forgive you for not being able to make that logical leap, as I wasn't able to until recently.

Wait, what? Seriously?

[Wamitoria]

It's not about the death of a border patrol agent. It's about a conspiracy theory.

Republicans think that the Fast and Furious program is a conspiracy designed to cause so much gun violence in Mexico that the Democrats will have the ability to repeal the 2nd amendment.

I forgive you for not being able to make that logical leap, as I wasn't able to until recently.

Wait, what? Seriously?

Deadly serious. The whole thing is the product of a conspiracy theorist blogger. And he's about to get the Attorney General arrested.

[Midnight Science Fiction Feature]

Wait, what? Seriously?

Deadly serious. The whole thing is the product of a conspiracy theorist blogger. And he's about to get the Attorney General arrested.

Wow, and I thought my post said everything that needed to be said about the stupidity of this controversy. Didn't this operation begin in 2006, before Obama was even running in the primary?

[Ashmoria]

Deadly serious. The whole thing is the product of a conspiracy theorist blogger. And he's about to get the Attorney General arrested.

Wow, and I thought my post said everything that needed to be said about the stupidity of this controversy. Didn't this operation begin in 2006, before Obama was even running in the primary?

yes but it was obama who decided to use fake gunrunning to destroy the 2nd ammendment!

i was just watching rachel maddow explain the nutty conspiracy theory behind this move. im pretty sure it will be posted on maddowblog.msnbc.com in the coming hours.

[Ashmoria]

Wait, what? Seriously?

Deadly serious. The whole thing is the product of a conspiracy theorist blogger. And he's about to get the Attorney General arrested.

i dont think he'll be arrested. i think the courts will back executive privilege as they have done every other time a president has invoked it.

[Wamitoria]

Deadly serious. The whole thing is the product of a conspiracy theorist blogger. And he's about to get the Attorney General arrested.

i dont think he'll be arrested. i think the courts will back executive privilege as they have done every other time a president has invoked it.

They haven't backed it every time a president invoked it.

Even then, that won't stop the Republicans. They'll turn this into an election issue.

Which, coincidentally, is exactly what the Democrats want them to do. I can hear it now, "My opponent was elected to create jobs, instead he has voted to cut taxes for the rich and arrest the attorney general!"

[Ashmoria]

i dont think he'll be arrested. i think the courts will back executive privilege as they have done every other time a president has invoked it.

They haven't backed it every time a president invoked it.

Even then, that won't stop the Republicans. They'll turn this into an election issue.

Which, coincidentally, is exactly what the Democrats want them to do. I can hear it now, "My opponent was elected to create jobs, instead he has voted to cut taxes for the rich and arrest the attorney general!"

when was the last time the courts didnt back up the president for executive privilege?

[Midnight Science Fiction Feature]

Wow, and I thought my post said everything that needed to be said about the stupidity of this controversy. Didn't this operation begin in 2006, before Obama was even running in the primary?

yes but it was obama who decided to use fake gunrunning to destroy the 2nd ammendment!

i was just watching rachel maddow explain the nutty conspiracy theory behind this move. im pretty sure it will be posted on maddowblog.msnbc.com in the coming hours.

Yeah--I flipped to Sean Hannity, and sure enough it was somebody postulating that conspiracy.

[Wamitoria]

They haven't backed it every time a president invoked it.

Even then, that won't stop the Republicans. They'll turn this into an election issue.

Which, coincidentally, is exactly what the Democrats want them to do. I can hear it now, "My opponent was elected to create jobs, instead he has voted to cut taxes for the rich and arrest the attorney general!"

when was the last time the courts didn't back up the president for executive privilege?

Clinton administration during the Lewinsky affair, IIRC.

[Ashmoria]

yes but it was obama who decided to use fake gunrunning to destroy the 2nd ammendment!

i was just watching rachel maddow explain the nutty conspiracy theory behind this move. im pretty sure it will be posted on maddowblog.msnbc.com in the coming hours.

Yeah--I flipped to Sean Hannity, and sure enough it was somebody postulating that conspiracy.

it is so weird that there is this massive conspiracy theory running amok among congressional republicans that we know nothing about because we dont watch foxnews.

normal people think that mr isa is just being a bit of a hardass as regards mr holder and his internal memos. turns out that he is pandering to crazy people.

how were we supposed to know that?

[Blazedtown]

Yeah--I flipped to Sean Hannity, and sure enough it was somebody postulating that conspiracy.

it is so weird that there is this massive conspiracy theory running amok among congressional republicans that we know nothing about because we dont watch foxnews.

normal people think that mr isa is just being a bit of a hardass as regards mr holder and his internal memos. turns out that he is pandering to crazy people.

how were we supposed to know that?

Well, if you're in the NRA, you get American Riflemen for free. They've been talking about it since like December.

Yes, I know half of its Republican propaganda, but I read it for the articles I swear.

[Spiritwolf]

This entire controversy is growing extremely irritating, at least for me. Let's start with the obvious: The United States of America is having a constitutional crisis because of the death of one border patrol agent. The House Oversight Committee has voted to hold Eric Holder in contempt, because of one border patrol agent. Obama has used executive privilege, all because of one border patrol agent. People are shot every single day, but this one man is so important?

I like the blatant nationalism and chauvinism in this whole case. It's the death of an ''American''. An ''American'' has died. One American dies, and the entire country is outraged. Let's just ignore what Operation Fast and Furious was actually supposed to. We knowingly sold weapons to gun traffickers, in hopes that we could arrest cartel leaders. What do guns do? Shoot people. Who shoots people in Mexico? The cartels. We have put in place a policy for five years that has likely assisted the deaths of many Mexicans, but we'll just case that aside because an ''American'' died! Not to mention that the border agent that was killed was found dead with several other Mexican citizens. Anecdotally, I haven't found a single reference to any Mexican casualties so far.

Let's also keep in mind that it's the United State's war on drugs that's keeping the cartels in business to begin with. If the type of drugs the cartels sell were legalized in the United States, they would have no business. Their entire business would be gone in an instant, like an oil company when all the oil on Earth has been depleted. If we never had the War on Drugs, we would never need to arrest cartel leaders. And by the way, we haven't caught any cartel leaders as a result of this operation, even after five years.

So, we put in a policy that keeps cartels in business to begin with, when repealing it would stop them. Then, we knowingly sell guns to Mexico, which kill Mexican citizens. For five years, we watch those guns kill Mexicans with complete indifference, while not a single cartel leader is caught as a result. Then one day, a border patrol agent of ours is found dead, killed by the weapons we sold, and the controversy begins. Who cares about the Mexican casualties this caused? Who cares about others who died with him? Who cares about the fact that we're the reason cartels are even around? That doesn't matter: An American died!

And the only thing Fox News cares about is that Obama did something he criticized Bush for in 2007. Fuck the media.

Very fucking well said!!

[Spiritwolf]

when was the last time the courts didn't back up the president for executive privilege?

Clinton administration during the Lewinsky affair, IIRC.

At least Clinton got his knob polished........

[Wamitoria]

Clinton administration during the Lewinsky affair, IIRC.

At least Clinton got his knob polished........

What does this have to do with my statement?

[Gauthier]

Clinton administration during the Lewinsky affair, IIRC.

At least Clinton got his knob polished........

Nice to know knob polishing is considered High Crimes and Misdemeanors according to the GOP that has a taste for IMing pages and footshuffling cops in airport bathrooms.

[Gun Manufacturers]

it is so weird that there is this massive conspiracy theory running amok among congressional republicans that we know nothing about because we dont watch foxnews.

normal people think that mr isa is just being a bit of a hardass as regards mr holder and his internal memos. turns out that he is pandering to crazy people.

how were we supposed to know that?

Well, if you're in the NRA, you get American Riflemen for free. They've been talking about it since like December.

Yes, I know half of its Republican propaganda, but I read it for the articles I swear.

There's several NRA magazines to choose from. Or you can choose not to receive a magazine at all.

[Spiritwolf]

At least Clinton got his knob polished........

What does this have to do with my statement?

Well, it's a helluva lot more than the democrats are EVER gonna get trying to screw with our God-given 2nd Amendment rights. Thats right, I said it, Guns AND Religion............. oooooooh!! I'm getting chill bumps all over just thinking about it. "Executive privilege" that one Mr. President (at least until November anyway).

[Gauthier]

What does this have to do with my statement?

Well, it's a helluva lot more than the democrats are EVER gonna get trying to screw with our God-given 2nd Amendment rights. Thats right, I said it, Guns AND Religion............. oooooooh!! I'm getting chill bumps all over just thinking about it. "Executive privilege" that one Mr. President (at least until November anyway).

Hi Ted Nugent.

[JuNii]

This entire controversy is growing extremely irritating, at least for me. Let's start with the obvious: The United States of America is having a constitutional crisis because of the death of one border patrol agent. The House Oversight Committee has voted to hold Eric Holder in contempt, because of one border patrol agent. Obama has used executive privilege, all because of one border patrol agent. People are shot every single day, but this one man is so important?

It's not about the death of a border patrol agent. It's about a conspiracy theory.

Republicans think that the Fast and Furious program is a conspiracy designed to cause so much gun violence in Mexico that the Democrats will have the ability to repeal the 2nd amendment.

I forgive you for not being able to make that logical leap, as I wasn't able to until recently.

That's a new one...

anywho... Operation Gunwalker, the precursor to Operation Fast and Furious was started in 2006, in conjunction with Operation Wide Reciever (who comes up with these names???) and shut down in Oct 2007.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal (yes, it's Wikipedia...)

in 2009, some bright egghead decided on Operation Fast and Furious and that became the scandal that we know and love. Somehow, I don't think either Presidents were aware of Operation Fast and Furious.

[AiliailiA]

Had Bush done this you'd all be crying yourselves to sleep!

That clinches it. You're Gauthier.